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Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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  • Options
    #1892
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The form deos ask if you have part time/casual income and i guess self employed been wided out too tbf


    Its incredilbe stupid from varadkar,they are doing reasonable enough job all things considered and he takes it upon himself to stir up needless controversy.....

    quiet why anyone feels need to defend such gobsh1teness is perplexing




    I think he is trying to warn people from doing it, also to try to get people to report it.



    The wrong way to do it, but Leo is a clown, he should have handed over to minister for social or whoever and got that person to bring up


  • Options
    #1893
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,929 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »
    Again, you demonstrate you don't know how this works.

    First, BNY Mellon are escrow agents not BoA.

    Second, "the funds were put in Escrow under the control of our Minister of Finance"? No, this was explained to you earlier the Minister for Finance does not have control of the funds, they are under the supervision of BNYM, as escrow agent and custodian.

    The investment and management of the escrow fund is jointly overseen by the Minister and Apple through an investment committee.

    Third, there is no "gentleman's agreement." There is a legal deed in place covering all this.

    Fourth, our status as appellant is no less and no greater than Apple's so even if drop our appeal, Apple can continue and the funds stay where they are until the matter is determined.

    Fifth, by virtue of the deed covering the escrow, Apple have quite a lot of say as to what happens to the money. They are not only represented on the committee overseeing the investment of it, they are the other party to the escrow deed.

    No, I am not an 'expert' in this and neither is my 'partner' nor is a friend of my partner, nor is the dog. The cat knows a bit about finance though, but doesn't talk to me.

    The 'arrangement' to manage the funds is an arrangement between Ireland and Apple...and according to what I was listening to was in the 'gift' of Ireland to arrange. There was no onus on us to do it. It was a 'good faith' act with Apple. We could have immediately begun to spend and disperse the funds once they were paid.
    The EU actually advised on how we should use the funds when they were paid, and there was much debate about it at the time. but we indicated we were going to appeal.
    https://www.siliconrepublic.com/companies/eu-tax-apple-ireland-national-debt

    How legally binding that arrangement is, I don't know. That is what people are asking. Do you guys have any sources on this?

    And anyone thinking Apple aren't 'playing fast and loose' might want to read this.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41889787


  • Options
    #1894
    Runaways
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Runaways


    And today in Fine Gaels absolutely fvckin alternative universe, josepha insists it’s irresponsible and dangerous for TDs to turn up and do their jobs.

    But nurses doctors and front line support staff have to.

    You are beyond deluded if you still support these cretins. Or like them, you don’t care.
    (This is the same josepha urged Maria to sue. So yes. Living in a very different alternative reality to the rest of us)

    https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1245740249365520384?s=21


  • Options
    #1895
    Sultan_of_Ping
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Sultan_of_Ping


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    No, I am not an 'expert' in this and neither is my 'partner' nor is a friend of my partner, nor is the dog. The cat knows a bit about finance though, but doesn't talk to me.

    The 'arrangement' to manage the funds is an arrangement between Ireland and Apple...and according to what I was listening to was in the 'gift' of Ireland to arrange. There was no onus on us to do it. It was a 'good faith' act with Apple. We could have immediately begun to spend and disperse the funds once they were paid.
    The EU actually advised on how we should use the funds when they were paid, and there was much debate about it at the time. but we indicated we were going to appeal.
    https://www.siliconrepublic.com/companies/eu-tax-apple-ireland-national-debt

    How legally binding that arrangement is, I don't know. That is what people are asking. Do you guys have any sources on this?

    And anyone thinking Apple aren't 'playing fast and loose' might want to read this.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41889787


    It's a legal deed - how can a business-person not understand escrow?

    The legally binding deed gives a share control over the funds until the appeal is finalised. Control is shared between the Minister for Finance, Apple Sales International (ASI) and Apple Operations Europe (AOE).

    508062.jpg

    I see how this works now - you pronounce on something, get called out, then either deflect, ignore or respond with "I'm not an expert"


  • Options
    #1896
    Runaways
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Runaways


    aido79 wrote: »
    A guy my wife works with put in a request to be laid off so he could get this payment. He's not the sharpest tool in the shed but I doubt he's the only one asking.

    How much do you think a SF government would be willing to pay someone who only works 20 hours a week?

    I’m not sure? They did have a flat figure for everyone laid off. (Was it €500?) either way it works out the same as the current rate when you add the rent supplement. (If you’re eligible for it)
    Happy to be corrected on that I heard it on radio 1 so can’t verify.


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    #1897
    Runaways
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Runaways


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I don't support FG which is your first issue


    Yes Ireland has plenty of scroungers. Hence why we have so many Eastern European/africans etc running our shops/cleaners/health care etc. Thank God for immigration


    You will find the local scroungers will be doing exactly what Leo said, then sitting in a lock in somewhere signing about 'Da Ra, saying what a great job Mary Lou is doing :P:P:P wouldn't work on batteries


    Ehhh all the pubs are closed.

    But thanks for at least being honest about your thoughts on everyone that isn’t you.


  • Options
    #1898
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »
    I see how this works now - you pronounce on something, get called out, then either deflect, ignore or respond with "I'm not an expert"


    You only worked that out now? read back over the 30 odd pages. The person hasn't a clue on anything. Well apart from PR from SF, he is good at spinning that one


  • Options
    #1899
    Runaways
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Runaways


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    The 350 is available to self employed people who also have a part time job
    That would be one instance that I'm aware of
    Where the person is only entitled to the 350 if they lost the job
    Eg if you were part time employed but set up a small business doing something else aswell or in the gig economy
    Youd have to close the business and would be stuck on the low pay part time job but no €350 just UA ?
    To be honest,I'd have no problem with that in the current crisis
    If both were earning less than 350 together,its a no brainer anomaly



    Hold up there.

    The covoid payment IS NOT open to the self employed. I’ve too many family members and friends stuck with this one to let that go.

    Self employed are currently only entitled to Jobseeker’s Allowance. That’s all.

    Once again the self starters and small business owners get screwed


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    #1900
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Runaways wrote: »
    Hold up there.

    The covoid payment IS NOT open to the self employed. I’ve too many family members and friends stuck with this one to let that go.

    Self employed are currently only entitled to Jobseeker’s Allowance. That’s all.

    Once again the self starters and small business owners get screwed

    Really? Have a read of this https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/covid19_pandemic_unemployment_payment.html

    “ To qualify for the new COVID-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment, you must:

    Be aged between 18 and 66
    Live in the Republic of Ireland
    Have been in employment or self-employment immediately before Friday 13 March 2020. If you work shifts, short time or other atypical work patterns you must have been in employment on or after 6 March 2020.
    Have lost your job or be temporarily laid off from work or asked to stay at home from work due to the pandemic
    Have taken time off work to mind your child because of school or childcare closures and your employer is no longer paying you
    Stopped trading as self-employed due to the pandemic”


  • Options
    #1901
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    Runaways wrote: »
    I’m not sure? They did have a flat figure for everyone laid off. (Was it €500?) either way it works out the same as the current rate when you add the rent supplement. (If you’re eligible for it)
    Happy to be corrected on that I heard it on radio 1 so can’t verify.

    I was talking about pre or post coronavirus. How much do you think a person working 20 hours a week should earn under a SF government?
    These are the people Leo was talking about, not people who have already been laid off.


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    #1902
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Runaways wrote: »
    Hold up there.

    The covoid payment IS NOT open to the self employed. I’ve too many family members and friends stuck with this one to let that go.

    Self employed are currently only entitled to Jobseeker’s Allowance. That’s all.

    Once again the self starters and small business owners get screwed


    My mate is self employed, he is getting the €350

    So I would check your facts

    Not that a quick google would back up facts

    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/eca524-covid-19-information-for-employees/


  • Options
    #1903
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Really? Have a read of this https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/covid19_pandemic_unemployment_payment.html

    “ To qualify for the new COVID-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment, you must:

    Be aged between 18 and 66
    Live in the Republic of Ireland
    Have been in employment or self-employment immediately before Friday 13 March 2020. If you work shifts, short time or other atypical work patterns you must have been in employment on or after 6 March 2020.
    Have lost your job or be temporarily laid off from work or asked to stay at home from work due to the pandemic
    Have taken time off work to mind your child because of school or childcare closures and your employer is no longer paying you
    Stopped trading as self-employed due to the pandemic”


    Not the first and certainly not the last that poster will be found to be talking BS

    I do like that "person" like the other one on here thinks using capital letter is clever......must be part of SF media training!!!


  • Options
    #1904
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Not the first and certainly not the last that poster will be found to be talking BS

    I do like that "person" like the other one on here thinks using capital letter is clever......must be part of SF media training!!!

    Even davycc has stopped thanking their posts at this stage.


  • Options
    #1905
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Runaways wrote: »
    Ehhh all the pubs are closed.

    But thanks for at least being honest about your thoughts on everyone that isn’t you.


    Not everyone....just the wasters!!!


  • Options
    #1906
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    aido79 wrote: »
    Even davycc has stopped thanking their posts at this stage.


    Well if you check the "Thank" on each post, they are just thanking each other.....Must be on a bonus or something. The more they get the better mini SF fans they are!!!



    Similar to the clowns on facebook, every FF video posted, its the same SF gobsh**ts posting responses and the same people thanking.


    It is also the same story as here, check video last night, first post, SF person, going on about getting the 14 billion Apple money!!!! :P:P:P:P:P:P:P


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    #1907
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,929 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »
    It's a legal deed - how can a business-person not understand escrow?

    The legally binding deed gives a share control over the funds until the appeal is finalised. Control is shared between the Minister for Finance, Apple Sales International (ASI) and Apple Operations Europe (AOE).

    508062.jpg

    I see how this works now - you pronounce on something, get called out, then either deflect, ignore or respond with "I'm not an expert"

    I have not disputed this agreement exists. But it was our Minister Of Finance who set it up because the money, once paid, was Ireland's. Are you disputing the bolded bit?
    I have also said this is an agreement between Apple and Ireland...entered into to facilitate an appeal.
    There was no onus on us to do this. As I linked to, the EU advised us on how to disperse/spend the money when it was paid. Are you disputing that?

    I also said...no deflection or lies or excuses, that I don't know how legally binding this arrangement is. And I, like others (IT article linked earlier) said that getting out of this should be looked at as an option.


  • Options
    #1908
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,929 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blackwhite wrote: »
    Maybe try the actual report, instead of a press release

    https://ec.europa.eu/competition/state_aid/cases/253200/253200_1851004_674_2.pdf

    Paragraphs 54 and 55



    Not direct sales to consumers - but sales to related parties (i.e. the in-country Apply entities) and to third party customers (i.e. other Apple-approved distributors).



    And again, they fulfil the orders from local entites.

    A big part of the confusion is probably coming from the fact that the full cash from sales flowed up into ASI, before the minimal profit "share" went back into the local sales entities.

    If you really want to bore yourself to sleep, have a read of the OECD rules on transfer pricing (which Apple were notionally trying to follow, they just deviated on structuring the Irish entities, which is where the EU case found them in breach). Having an in-country entity that owns the end-customer sale, but make next to nil profit, whilst you've a sister company in a more tax-friendly jurisdiction which ultimately takes the majority of the profit is the core principle of how these schemes work.

    Sorry, can you too be clear here...are you saying that the EU are lying in their press release?


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    #1909
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I have not disputed this agreement exists. But it was our Minister Of Finance who set it up because the money, once paid, was Ireland's. Are you disputing the bolded bit?
    I have also said this is an agreement between Apple and Ireland...entered into to facilitate an appeal.
    There was no onus on us to do this. As I linked to, the EU advised us on how to disperse/spend the money when it was paid. Are you disputing that?

    I also said...no deflection or lies or excuses, that I don't know how legally binding this arrangement is. And I, like others (IT article linked earlier) said that getting out of this should be looked at as an option.


    Oh, you found the bold button. Better tell the rest of the SF media team that using capitals is rude.....


    P.S. using bold is also stupid as well :P


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    #1910
    Sultan_of_Ping
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Sultan_of_Ping


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I have not disputed this agreement exists. But it was our Minister Of Finance who set it up because the money, once paid, was Ireland's. Are you disputing the bolded bit?
    I have also said this is an agreement between Apple and Ireland...entered into to facilitate an appeal.
    There was no onus on us to do this. As I linked to, the EU advised us on how to disperse/spend the money when it was paid. Are you disputing that?

    I also said...no deflection or lies or excuses, that I don't know how legally binding this arrangement is. And I, like others (IT article linked earlier) said that getting out of this should be looked at as an option.


    Oh dear, you really don't get escrow......

    The money is not Ireland's - the Escrow Framework Deed includes the agreement that all claims of ownership and access to this money is suspended until the European Courts have concluded the proceedings that the Government and Apple have brought.

    We can't claim it's ours, andd even if we drop our appeal, Apple can sustain theirs and then the matter of ownership will be settled.


  • Options
    #1911
    Sultan_of_Ping
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Sultan_of_Ping


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I have not disputed this agreement exists. But it was our Minister Of Finance who set it up because the money, once paid, was Ireland's. Are you disputing the bolded bit?
    I have also said this is an agreement between Apple and Ireland...entered into to facilitate an appeal.
    There was no onus on us to do this. As I linked to, the EU advised us on how to disperse/spend the money when it was paid. Are you disputing that?

    I also said...no deflection or lies or excuses, that I don't know how legally binding this arrangement is. And I, like others (IT article linked earlier) said that getting out of this should be looked at as an option.

    As for how legally binding is it - it is legally binding - the Escrow Framework Deed, was signed by the Minister for Finance, Apple Services International (ASI), and Apple Operations Europe (AOE) on 24th April 2018.

    It's a deed that sets out the detailed legal agreement regarding the recovery of the alleged State aid and the framework for oversight, safekeeping and management of the Fund.

    If you think deeds aren't legally binding then you must be renting ;)


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    #1912
    Tokyo
    Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Not the first and certainly not the last that poster will be found to be talking BS

    I do like that "person" like the other one on here thinks using capital letter is clever......must be part of SF media training!!!
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Not everyone....just the wasters!!!
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Well if you check the "Thank" on each post, they are just thanking each other.....Must be on a bonus or something. The more they get the better mini SF fans they are!!!



    Similar to the clowns on facebook, every FF video posted, its the same SF gobsh**ts posting responses and the same people thanking.


    It is also the same story as here, check video last night, first post, SF person, going on about getting the 14 billion Apple money!!!! :P:P:P:P:P:P:P
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Oh, you found the bold button. Better tell the rest of the SF media team that using capitals is rude.....


    P.S. using bold is also stupid as well :P


    Mod: Are you done yet?

    Discuss the actual topic, or please don't post.


  • Options
    #1913
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,929 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »
    Oh dear, you really don't get escrow......

    The money is not Ireland's - the Escrow Framework Deed includes the agreement that all claims of ownership and access to this money is suspended until the European Courts have concluded the proceedings that the Government and Apple have brought.

    We can't claim it's ours, andd even if we drop our appeal, Apple can sustain theirs and then the matter of ownership will be settled.

    Once it went into Escrow it is not ours to use.

    Please stop being disingenuous here.

    I am discussing WHY it went into escrow and if it is possible to get it out of Escrow.

    I.E. The money is in Escrow to facilitate an appeal, IF WE DROP our appeal, what happens?
    Is it legally possible to get out of the agreement with Apple...what penalties would accrue etc.
    What are the exit clauses in the agreement with Apple. Those were the questions being asked on the discussion I was listening to and if you know the answers please tell us and please back them up with your sources.


  • Options
    #1914
    Runaways
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Runaways


    Pretty much This

    ‘ love leo varadkar being like “let me take a minute of your time during this global pandemic to remind you that we still hate people on welfare”’


  • Options
    #1915
    Runaways
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Runaways


    aido79 wrote: »
    I was talking about pre or post coronavirus. How much do you think a person working 20 hours a week should earn under a SF government?
    These are the people Leo was talking about, not people who have already been laid off.

    It really wasn’t who he was talking about. He has form. Let’s not pretend he doesn’t.
    The ‘welfare cheats cheat us all’ stunt if you’re in doubt.


  • Options
    #1916
    Sultan_of_Ping
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Sultan_of_Ping


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Once it went into Escrow it is not ours to use.

    Please stop being disingenuous here.

    I am discussing WHY it went into escrow and if it is possible to get it out of Escrow.

    I.E. The money is in Escrow to facilitate an appeal, IF WE DROP our appeal, what happens?
    Is it legally possible to get out of the agreement with Apple...what penalties would accrue etc.
    What are the exit clauses in the agreement with Apple. Those were the questions being asked on the discussion I was listening to and if you know the answers please tell us and please back them up with your sources.

    Ok, that's been explained - all the docs you need are on the DoF's website and the C&AG's website, including the audit of the fund, documents relating to the Framework Deed and descriptions of the governance structures.

    There are also various questions have been asked about it in the Dail and are on the record there.


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    #1917
    Runaways
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Runaways


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Not the first and certainly not the last that poster will be found to be talking BS

    I do like that "person" like the other one on here thinks using capital letter is clever......must be part of SF media training!!!

    That’s laughably rich coming from you.
    By all means continue though.
    We need laughs in this difficult time


  • Options
    #1918
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Runaways wrote: »
    Pretty much This

    ‘ love leo varadkar being like “let me take a minute of your time during this global pandemic to remind you that we still hate people on welfare”’


    Do you agree the payment is open to self employed?


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    #1919
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Once it went into Escrow it is not ours to use.

    Please stop being disingenuous here.

    I am discussing WHY it went into escrow and if it is possible to get it out of Escrow.

    I.E. The money is in Escrow to facilitate an appeal, IF WE DROP our appeal, what happens?
    Is it legally possible to get out of the agreement with Apple...what penalties would accrue etc.
    What are the exit clauses in the agreement with Apple. Those were the questions being asked on the discussion I was listening to and if you know the answers please tell us and please back them up with your sources.

    You know the whys of both
    Ireland is ok as long as they bring loads of jobs
    Apple will not donate the money to Ireland and if its possible the US and other countries will take more than Ireland currently gets anyway

    Legally possible to get funds out of the Escrow without Apple?
    No

    That's all been explained


  • Options
    #1920
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,929 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    You know the whys of both
    Ireland is ok as long as they bring loads of jobs
    Apple will not donate the money to Ireland and if its possible the US and other countries will take more than Ireland currently gets anyway

    Legally possible to get funds out of the Escrow without Apple?
    No

    That's all been explained

    I asked what the out clauses were. they exist in any legal agreement. Do you know?
    Don't assume, if you know can you link to the source?

    I have said honestly that I don't know.


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    #1921
    Ballso
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭Ballso


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    You know the whys of both
    Ireland is ok as long as they bring loads of jobs
    Apple will not donate the money to Ireland and if its possible the US and other countries will take more than Ireland currently gets anyway

    Legally possible to get funds out of the Escrow without Apple?
    No

    That's all been explained

    Dunno why you's continue to engage on this, it's utterly irrelevant


This discussion has been closed.
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