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CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)*OP upd 28/03*

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Comments

  • #8552
    Happy4all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    Why are the government hiding the information as to where clusters are?


  • #8553
    Just Saying
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭Just Saying


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    If the government can prove that that a lone jogger/cyclist causes community transmission then go ahead, but while people are still mauling the same packet of easy singles in Tesco as the next person, its absurd to restrict that.

    I never made that point. My point is that the 2km rule was brought in to make it more difficult for people to socially interact with other households by using exercise as an excuse.

    It directly follows on from this that by making it more difficult to have social interaction between households then community transmission reduces.

    People really need to look at the bigger picture.


  • #8554
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,087 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    China wants to be seen as capable, advanced and in possession of the political system most suitable to handle the emergency, say China experts.

    President Donald Trump does not want to be seen as responsible for the virus as it further grips the US, where there are 75,000 cases and over 1000 deaths so far, outpacing China in the number of infections. The Trump White House is adamant that any lasting blame should fall squarely on Beijing.

    This battle for perceptions within the war against the virus exposes the anxiety of the great competition between China and the US in our time. A decisive winner could help convince the world of their political system’s superiority in the years to come.

    President Xi Jinping visited Wuhan, the coronavirus epicenter, for the first time since the outbreak began there. It's a sign of Chinese confidence that the tide is turning.

    For a White House consumed with messaging and public perception (and no stranger to disinformation itself), the idea that a pathogen with origins in China could tank the US economy and sap confidence is not something that would go uncontested.

    While trying to ensure blame for the crisis flowed away from Washington and towards Beijing, Trump insisted coronavirus was the “Chinese virus”, whipping up anger against Asians and Americans who have Asian backgrounds.

    A meeting of G7 foreign ministers on Wednesday ended without a joint statement after US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo pushed unsuccessfully to get member nations to agree to call coronavirus “Wuhan virus”.

    The Trump administration is now reportedly considering forcing Chinese journalists it suspects of spying to leave the US.

    Beijing has dialled up the volume and variety of messaging on coronavirus through diplomatic channels, state media and social media for weeks, to deflect blame for the outbreak and to try to position itself in the world’s eyes as the competent, generous problem-solver.
    Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said that the Group of Seven members were all aware of China's "disinformation campaign" regarding the coronavirus outbreak.

    Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said that the Group of Seven members were all aware of China's "disinformation campaign" regarding the coronavirus outbreak.Credit:AP

    "The Chinese Communist Party is waging a propaganda campaign to desperately try to shift responsibility for the global COVID-19 pandemic to the United States," said a US Embassy spokesperson. "This campaign began when we started to call out the risk that was created not only for the Chinese people, but for people all across the world."

    Images of Chinese aid have circulated widely on China’s Western-facing media and social networks. State media has leaned heavily into the idea that COVID-19 didn’t necessarily begin in China, and that democracies were incapable of meeting the challenge from it.
    https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/the-war-within-the-war-over-coronavirus-20200327-p54ee0.html

    When you think of the Chinese sending aid the Italy and the current Aerlingus flight to bring back PPE, they really are a good fit for a narrative that the China are working hard to project an image as the good guys and make political capital out of this.


  • #8555
    Seamai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭Seamai


    population wrote: »
    My sister is nursing in a US hospital and everyone with a beard has been told to shave in order for the masks to work effectively.

    Seems sensible, have a beard myself and would have no qualms about getting rid of it temporarily if it got to the stage where I had to wear a mask. No doubt there will be a few who will rail against it claiming their rights are being infringed. Suck it up for the greater good guys.


  • #8556
    Tordelback
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Tordelback


    Dying is an utter crock of **** at the very best of times, but there are relatively peaceful deaths with the care of nursing staff and the comfort of family and there are unnecessary isolated deaths in overcrowded overrun facilities.

    Arguing that annual mortality won't be much different- even if true, which I *deeply* doubt (1000 a day in Italy and Spaine from a single cause?) - is not far off saying "everyone dies in the end, so what's this whole healthcare lark in aid of?"


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  • #8557
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    BluePlanet wrote: »
    Why? Is it because it's not part of western diets?

    Carry out as normal then. Eating bats and have wet markets.


  • #8558
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    BrianD3 wrote: »
    I was thinking along similar lines. Let's say there are some late stage COPD patients who, if Covid19 didn't exist, are "destined" to die by September 2020 at the latest and Covid19 kils them in March instead - what is the significance of that from a public health and life expectancy point of view and how should this inform public policy. Regardless of the significance, obviously the deaths are tragic for the families and individuals involved.

    We keep hearing about people having underlying conditions. There is a massive difference between someone with late stage terminal cancer, COPD, ALS, MS etc. and someone with controlled hypertension - yet all are underlying conditions.

    Stats on all cause mortality would tell a lot. I would like to see historical stats for Lombardy or some of the worst affected cities there e.g. Bergamo. I have looked online and not found anything, the language barrier doesn't help. We know that, on average ~1700 people die per day in Italy. Lombardy population is about 18% of Italy's population so the average for Lombardy would seem to be ~310 per day. Based on media reports, over 500 people have died from (or with?) Covid19 in Lombardy on many days during this crisis so all cause mortality has clearly been way higher than the average of 310. The question that would then be asked is, has there been major spikes in all cause mortality in other years in Lombardy and an uneven distribution of deaths throughout the year.

    It could be the case that the age profile (with age associated underlying illnesses) of the region plus population density plus air pollution means that any contagious respiratory illness hits it hard. Were there a considerable number of deaths in other year also but spread over a longer time period due to less infectivity and a flatter curve that the health system was better able to deal with. Etc.
    Wishful thinking..

    Cause governments regularly crash world economies for an aggressive flu...
    also you are forgetting the long term lung and organ damage this bug does.
    The true death rate for this bug over the longer term has yet to be seen.


  • #8559
    wellwhynot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭wellwhynot


    Doc07 wrote: »
    HSE didn’t say that.

    According to RTE they just did say that at their news conference


  • #8560
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Week 2 of 24 of quarantine ....


    load of bollix


  • #8561
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Tordelback wrote: »
    Dying is an utter crock of **** at the very best of times, but there are relatively peaceful deaths with the care of nursing staff and the comfort of family and there are unnecessary isolated deaths in overcrowded overrun facilities.

    Arguing that annual mortality won't be much different- even if true, which I *deeply* doubt (1000 a day in Italy and Spaine from a single cause?) - is not far off saying "everyone dies in the end, so what's this whole healthcare lark in aid of?"

    The annual mortality rate will be different, numbers of deaths are up 5 five fold in Lombardia compared to March of previous years


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  • #8562
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    degsie wrote: »
    Remember folks, you are not responsible for your own health anymore, you are responsible for EVERYBODY's health!

    Remember "folks", that includes mental health. Just because someone doesn't show up in the hospital, doesn't mean they aren't sick, ease up on the lockdown fetish.


  • #8563
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Lets hope it works

    https://twitter.com/adrianzenz/status/1243992460839321600
    1. So start with masks don't work.
    2. Then when people cotton on to that say we don't have enough and HCW need them.
    3. Then when we get them. Say China is bad they made the virus and evil people didn't make good enough mask.
    4. Nothing to do with the fact we didn't want to spend the money to procure them for the general population (unwashed masses).


  • #8564
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    They were only doing half tests anyway.

    I had full test on Friday morning


  • #8565
    Marsden35
    Site Banned Posts: 93 ✭✭Marsden35


    cnocbui wrote: »

    When you think of the Chinese sending aid the Italy and the current Aerlingus flight to bring back PPE, they really are a good fit for a narrative that the China are working hard to project an image as the good guys and make political capital out of this.

    China did not send their 'aid' for free. I saw a tweet by a journalist that says it was made to look like that, but Italy was billed.


  • #8566
    Anita Blow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭Anita Blow


    wellwhynot wrote: »
    According to RTE they just did say that at their news conference

    We have 11,000 beds total. Of these, 2100 are empty in anticipation of this surge.

    We have ~250 ICU beds in public hospitals, a portion of these are occupied by COVID/non-COVID patients leaving 167. That however is just talking about our public hospitals. In addition to those 250 we have another 250 in the private system.


  • #8567
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,590 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Happy4all wrote:
    Why are the government hiding the information as to where clusters are?
    Probably afraid people will get out of clustered areas and infect other areas. It's not likely to happen but there are a lot of incredibly stupid people in senior management positions in the public service in this country. Best way to the top in the public service is to kiss behinds or use political contacts, it's not very often that the person who should get promoted does.


  • #8568
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    wakka12 wrote: »
    The annual mortality rate will be different, numbers of deaths are up 5 five fold in Lombardia compared to March of previous years

    I think the point is the March dead wont be dying in September or October.


  • #8569
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Marsden35 wrote: »
    China did not send their 'aid' for free. I saw a tweet by a journalist that says it was made to look like that, but Italy was billed.

    It seems their communism doesn't extend beyond their borders. How dare they....

    We get charged 50 euro to see a doctor. 500 a year for health insurance to be given the allusion that the care is better.

    That bullsh!t illusion is firmly shattered.


  • #8570
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    MarkY91 wrote: »
    That was 100 years ago. Different times.

    How so? Caused by intensive pig farming at an army facility in Kansas.


  • #8571
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    It is not an "of course"]

    Many people believe official guidelines that they don't help and are in fact dangerous. This is just plain wrong.

    Exactly my point and well put. We need to reorientate our society to deal with the threat. Much in the same way countries do in times of war. We were told rent controls were "unconstitutional". Has the constitution changed?

    If there are not enough masks. Lets make them If reusable ones aren't cost effective make reusable ones with filters.

    If there are not enough machines to process test results. Get them. Or repurpose ones already in the state.

    Also, if for example China sees a surge in new cases again, will they allow exports of important medical supplies at the current levels? Who knows. Internal production is the only sure way to keep control of supply chains. As lots of non necessary factories are closing or seeing low demand for its products, theres a chance there to create jobs and create more secure production and supply lines.


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  • #8572
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,139 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    SeaBreezes wrote: »
    Wishful thinking..

    Cause governments regularly crash world economies for an aggressive flu...
    also you are forgetting the long term lung and organ damage this bug does.
    The true death rate for this bug over the longer term has yet to be seen.

    Its impossible to know that it causes long term lung damage and if it does will it be the few or the many.


  • #8573
    Humberto Salazar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Humberto Salazar


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Week 2 of 24 of quarantine ....


    load of bollix

    Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr Jim Corr...


  • #8574
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    I think the point is the March dead wont be dying in September or October.

    That makes no sense, even if the excess death was limited to March, which it looks extremely unlikely to be, that would still increase the average mortality rate of the year overall


  • #8575
    Shedidnt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭Shedidnt


    At some point the country is going to have to begin to function again. You can't keep a whole country in lockdown for a year.


  • #8576
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,130 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Happy4all wrote: »
    Why are the government hiding the information as to where clusters are?

    Why do you need to know where the clusters are when you've been told to stay at home?


  • #8577
    loughside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭loughside


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Lets hope it works

    https://twitter.com/adrianzenz/status/1243992460839321600


    Shouldn`t really buy stuff off AliExpress





    https://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ani/china-delivered-faulty-coronavirus-test-kits-to-spain-czech-republic-120032800056_1.html


    This comes after Spanish health authorities have warned that the rapid coronavirus tests that the country purchased from China are faulty. They are not consistently detecting positive cases, thereby showing an accuracy level below 30 per cent, making them unusable.
    In view of the incredibly high error rate of the kits, Spain-- one of the worst-hit by Covid-19, with deaths surpassing over 4,800-- has announced that it is sending back the first batch of Covid-19 testing kits that it received from China.


  • #8578
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,139 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    wakka12 wrote: »
    That makes no sense, even if the excess death was limited to March, which it looks extremely unlikely to be, that would still increase the average mortality rate of the year overall

    What is being said I think is that, if we get this some bit under control by September, there will be a lot less people older people that could die because the majority would have died in april and march.


  • #8579
    Coyote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭Coyote


    https://www.rte.ie/player/onnow/66546216065

    HSE Covid-19 Briefing Sunday 29/3/2020

    after new critral = 15K to be tested
    tested 11K have appointment
    4K waiting for appointment
    5K a day testing
    opening more

    plan to have 15K per day by end of the week


  • #8580
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    wellwhynot wrote: »
    According to RTE they just did say that at their news conference

    That's currently free ICU beds, not including private hospital beds.


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  • #8581
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Tordelback wrote: »
    Dying is an utter crock of **** at the very best of times, but there are relatively peaceful deaths with the care of nursing staff and the comfort of family and there are unnecessary isolated deaths in overcrowded overrun facilities.

    Arguing that annual mortality won't be much different- even if true, which I *deeply* doubt (1000 a day in Italy and Spaine from a single cause?) - is not far off saying "everyone dies in the end, so what's this whole healthcare lark in aid of?"

    There are serious vested interests who in this time of need are not getting as rich as they usually do. They are deploying capital to shift public opinion in favour of restarting economy. One line is "people die all the time"

    This is a war. People seriously need to look at our history and look at the sacrifices those people made. Government has put measures in place to insure people won't go hungry. I get people need to work. We need to take a break until this is eradicated or vaccine found.

    Big business does not like this.


This discussion has been closed.
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