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Hansons Method

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  • The_Geezer wrote: »
    Guys, planning on racing a half marathon on 14th, what are ur thougths on cutting out the intervel and tempo sessions that week? I think i will ahve to cut the tempo one out as it drains me alot more than the speed sessions.

    That makes sense, yeah. I'd do the Tuesday but not the Thursday. I once did a decent session on a Tuesday and ran a fairly good Half - more or less unplanned - on the Sunday.

    One question though. Is this an Easy or a Session Sunday week?




  • its a 16m Long run sunday




  • Gonna kick of the advanced HM plan here, having not followed any plan beyond easy miles for the last year. One thing that stands out to me is the race week millage, it seems quite high to me? How fresh have people felt on race morning?




  • mloc123 wrote: »
    Gonna kick of the advanced HM plan here, having not followed any plan beyond easy miles for the last year. One thing that stands out to me is the race week millage, it seems quite high to me? How fresh have people felt on race morning?

    I wondered about this too. Running the same 6 day pattern on race week. Last session just 10 days out. Start of this thread has a link to the plan on my log. Skip forward a couple of pages to race week. I had my doubts. Have a read to see how it planned out.




  • The race week mileage, I think I did one day less than it had down 'cos of travel. But I do now like to do my last session 10 days out. I used to have too long a taper before. Last 3 marathons I've chosen to do the 10 day version and I feel that leaves you in a better place. Unless you crucify yourself on the last two workouts (14 and 10 days out) you really should be recovered by race day.


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  • I think it is possible to overdo those previous week workouts alright. Next time I’ll be much more careful 10 days out especially.




  • Meant to see where i was at racing a half marathon tomorrow which is now cancelled. very dissapointed as training had been going really well could feel myself getting alot fitter and thinking sub 3 would be a real possibility when it wasnt looiking like that a month ago. I will say it is only a matter of time before Belfast marathon canned, any advice on what i should do re the hanson plan (keep following it religiously or just keep myself ticking over and go back to triathlons?)




  • The_Geezer wrote: »
    Meant to see where i was at racing a half marathon tomorrow which is now cancelled. very dissapointed as training had been going really well could feel myself getting alot fitter and thinking sub 3 would be a real possibility when it wasnt looiking like that a month ago. I will say it is only a matter of time before Belfast marathon canned, any advice on what i should do re the hanson plan (keep following it religiously or just keep myself ticking over and go back to triathlons?)
    How far along the plan were you? I'd come off the plan to an extent. Plans progress each week to get you to peak for the goal event. Trying to stay up at that level is risky.

    I'd suggest "banking" where you are at now at least. If you are onto or mid "strength" phase perhaps roll back a few weeks and stay at that level until its comfortable. Once an event becomes available you could start the plan all over or pick up mid way etc..

    Doing a few triathlons for fun is a good way to maintain your fitness and mix it up. They are all off too and pools closed. So that leave an option of cycling.

    You could keep the 6 day structure of the plan but mix it up. Swap a day for some core or a cycle.




  • i had just done the first week with the strength session 6X 1 mile week. yeah ive decided to roll back on amount of training for now. it is hard to get motivated for that type of running with no end goal in sight. disappointed but not the end of the world. will have no shortage of races to do September/October




  • Murph_D wrote: »
    I think it is possible to overdo those previous week workouts alright. Next time I’ll be much more careful 10 days out especially.

    For Murph_D starting out the Adavanced Plan!

    Anyone else embarking on a marathon cycle using Hansons at the moment? I'm thinking of trying the 60-80m plan which gives me the opposite concerns about the LR, that the advanced plan did!


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  • For Murph_D starting out the Adavanced Plan!

    Anyone else embarking on a marathon cycle using Hansons at the moment? I'm thinking of trying the 60-80m plan which gives me the opposite concerns about the LR, that the advanced plan did!

    What sort of LRs are we looking at there M?




  • healy1835 wrote: »
    What sort of LRs are we looking at there M?

    3x16 steady
    6x18 steady
    20 with mid [email protected]
    20 steady
    20 with last [email protected]
    20 steady
    20 with mid [email protected]
    20 steady




  • For Murph_D starting out the Adavanced Plan!

    Anyone else embarking on a marathon cycle using Hansons at the moment? I'm thinking of trying the 60-80m plan which gives me the opposite concerns about the LR, that the advanced plan did!

    What’s the concern? Too many? Too long? Too intense? All of the above?

    What was it about the previous experience that motivates any change at all - would you not be confident that the same approach, with more mileage under the belt, and the proven knowledge that the plan ‘works’ for you, will deliver even better results without (much) modification?




  • Murph_D wrote: »
    What’s the concern? Too many? Too long? Too intense? All of the above?

    What was it about the previous experience that motivates any change at all - would you not be confident that the same approach, with more mileage under the belt, and the proven knowledge that the plan ‘works’ for you, will deliver even better results without (much) modification?


    Fair questions. The 60-80 plan is new territory in terms of the LR stack. None individually give concern just the stack. I've never done a more than maybe 2-4 18milers and that was for Connemara in 2011. I did 1x18m for the sub3.

    Last time I did 20m with any regularity I broke down. Granted that was as a novice training for 2nd marathon with everything at zone 3 :D So I've since put a sort of limit of 2 hours on a LR.

    Why modify? I liked the structure and the midweek workouts. The key difference between the advanced and 60-80 plans there is that the latter has a few progression runs as workouts. The speed and strength workouts are spread over the weeks rather than a set of speed and a set of strength. The other main difference is frequent strides.

    I was think of adding more LRs and LRs with stuff (I did some of that in the advanced plan last year) and I thought why don't I just have a go at the 60-80 plan all together. I have the base now (5 months of that mileage) but I know from the advanced plan that the fatigue is a real balancing act once you get into the meat of the plan.

    I could do the 60-80m plan a week at a time and drop any given LR for a 16 steady but I prefer to have a plan, planned. If I have to reduce a plan as its too heavy then the damage may already be done by then.

    The Advanced Plan is a 45-65 range plan with an average of about 50. I'll be dropping some 10-20 miles extra a week into this version. Also, I'll train by heart rate initially too until I settle into those tempo workouts




  • 3x16 steady
    6x18 steady
    20 with mid [email protected]
    20 steady
    20 with last [email protected]
    20 steady
    20 with mid [email protected]
    20 steady

    Not wishing to insult Shotgun, but that plan screams Elite Marathon Programme.

    Jeeez, I'd say handle with care.




  • Itziger wrote: »
    Not wishing to insult Shotgun, but that plan screams Elite Marathon Programme.

    Jeeez, I'd say handle with care.

    Pretty similar to my block of LRs just gone, albeit not as long a block :) 20 w/10MP in Week 2 was an early test!




  • Itziger wrote: »
    Not wishing to insult Shotgun, but that plan screams Elite Marathon Programme.

    Jeeez, I'd say handle with care.

    Nah - after that many 18 milers, the body should be able to handle it.

    Far from an Elite plan I'd say. (Comparing JD Elite to this is chalk and cheese)




  • Pretty sure I'll adopt the LRs.
    16s.. doing them already
    18s... see how the body holds up.. MP will be established by then.
    20s.. one at a time.. handling with care!

    The 60-80 plan mixes in some progression runs with the tempos which I'll also adopt.

    The piece I'll likely keep with the advanced plan is getting the speed workouts done by mid plan, then move to strength. Mainly to avoid speedwork as those 20m LRs kick in.




  • Actually just did some numbers

    Total miles
    Adv plan: 920m over 18w =51m p/week
    60-80 plan: 1,360m over 20w = 68m p/week

    MP miles
    Adv plan: 120m or 13%
    60-80 plan: 123m or 9%

    Threshold miles
    Adv plan: 42m or 5%
    60-80 plan: 42m or 3%

    Speed miles
    Adv plan: 27m or 3%
    60-80 plan: 23m or 2%

    So overall comparable. Advanced plan has 1 more speed workout. The advanced plan has a straight tempo every week. The 60-80 has 4 fewer tempos but puts those MP miles into LRs.




  • Fair questions. The 60-80 plan is new territory in terms of the LR stack. None individually give concern just the stack. I've never done a more than maybe 2-4 18milers and that was for Connemara in 2011. I did 1x18m for the sub3.

    Last time I did 20m with any regularity I broke down. Granted that was as a novice training for 2nd marathon with everything at zone 3 :D So I've since put a sort of limit of 2 hours on a LR.

    Why modify? I liked the structure and the midweek workouts. The key difference between the advanced and 60-80 plans there is that the latter has a few progression runs as workouts. The speed and strength workouts are spread over the weeks rather than a set of speed and a set of strength. The other main difference is frequent strides.

    I was think of adding more LRs and LRs with stuff (I did some of that in the advanced plan last year) and I thought why don't I just have a go at the 60-80 plan all together. I have the base now (5 months of that mileage) but I know from the advanced plan that the fatigue is a real balancing act once you get into the meat of the plan.

    I could do the 60-80m plan a week at a time and drop any given LR for a 16 steady but I prefer to have a plan, planned. If I have to reduce a plan as its too heavy then the damage may already be done by then.

    The Advanced Plan is a 45-65 range plan with an average of about 50. I'll be dropping some 10-20 miles extra a week into this version. Also, I'll train by heart rate initially too until I settle into those tempo workouts

    Interesting about the HR element - do you mean using M HR instead of pace. Sounds good - although Hansons/Humphryeys have their own reasons for preferring pace to HR. What would you consider an indicative M HR? Low-mid Z3 (ie about 25-30 below max?)


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  • Murph_D wrote: »
    Interesting about the HR element - do you mean using M HR instead of pace. Sounds good - although Hansons/Humphryeys have their own reasons for preferring pace to HR. What would you consider an indicative M HR? Low-mid Z3 (ie about 25-30 below max?)

    Interesting though the 60-80 plan they use MP for all tempos up to 8m. Then it specifies [email protected] GOAL MP. Makes me wonder what MP was before GOAL MP and where it was measured etc...

    If I had just done a cycle and the appropriate recovery etc, I might just set a goal MP as a 1-2min PR. Or another way might be to take the average MP of the actual race and target a 4 second reduction, basically 1-2 mins PR from a different perspective.

    The danger obviously is training at paces you are not yet ready for. Advice I got from the likes of RayCun, KSU etc..

    3rd way and most popular to use recent race benchmarks. The Boards 5k TT would suggest a 3:03 so that's a potential start for MP and hoping I gain 6 mins or so with fitness. Training for where you are vs where you want to be..

    However, time, injury etc has passed and to your question about HR... like navigating a map. First know where you are, then go. HR will give me an idea what current MP is. As I get fitter and build the threshold and MP endurance, that will hopefully evolve into PR shape.

    In terms of M HR I can look at actual data from the last marathon and see that my average (middle 2hrs) was around 85-86% or just under threshold. Makes sense. In training initially I'll set MP at 80-85% with a buffer to 88% (89% moves into LT Zone 4 territory) for hills etc.. Whatever pace falls in there is what it is. Its mid to high Zone 3 but safely short of LT. It's a tightened zone within zone 3 but best physiological benefits from spending as much time as you can at sweet spot.




  • Hi all, i am down to do the Galway Bay Marathon next month (just awaiting it to be cancelled!!!) this is my second go at the Hanson Marathon Method, was 9 weeks into the plan for Belfast in May and then lockdown happened. Question is, i had been sticking religiously for 8 weeks (for a sub 3 attempt) i felt i had 2 change it up the past two weeks as i felt i was about to get an injury. i am enjoying the speed and strength session even the L/Rs however i to drop the thur tempo sessions as i felt as if was them sessions that were doing the damage. what are ur thoughts of up the L/Rs to 20-22 miles with the last 4-6 miles at tempo instead. i started to freak out that i hadn’t run beyond 16 miles until last week. do u think this is a good substitute for changing the tempo runs to an easy run?




  • The_Geezer wrote: »
    Hi all, i am down to do the Galway Bay Marathon next month (just awaiting it to be cancelled!!!) this is my second go at the Hanson Marathon Method, was 9 weeks into the plan for Belfast in May and then lockdown happened. Question is, i had been sticking religiously for 8 weeks (for a sub 3 attempt) i felt i had 2 change it up the past two weeks as i felt i was about to get an injury. i am enjoying the speed and strength session even the L/Rs however i to drop the thur tempo sessions as i felt as if was them sessions that were doing the damage. what are ur thoughts of up the L/Rs to 20-22 miles with the last 4-6 miles at tempo instead. i started to freak out that i hadn’t run beyond 16 miles until last week. do u think this is a good substitute for changing the tempo runs to an easy run?

    I don't know anything about your marathon history so I will only work off the info given in this post. I make my comments as someone who has only run more than 16/17m twice since 2017. Those 2 occasions being New York Marathon 2018 (3:13 with ongoing hip flexor and knee issues) and DCM 2019 (3:29:xx as a 3:30 pacer). I am also currently doing Hanson. Started oit for Chicago and when marathon was cancelled I decide to keep going to up my overall fitness level pre a sub 3 attempt in 2021 all going well.

    I would be a strong believer that you are either on Hanson or you aren't. If you buy into it stick with it. If you don't believe that you can run a marathon off the training then you are not going to run a marathon off the training! 22milers are not necessary if you do everything else right. Overall Hanson has good mileage it is just distributed differently.

    On the injury question, if you are injured then get it treated and take advise on what you should or shouldn't be doing rather than second guessing yourself and your training.

    What do you mean by "as i felt i was about to get an injury" have you got a history of injury and if so what caused it in the past and how did you rehab it?

    Finally, on the 22miler question I am not sure how 6miles tempo after 16m at MP +40s is going to less damage than 8, 9 or 10 miles tempo off a 1.5m warm-up.

    Best of luck with the rest of this cycle whatever way you go and I hope Galway goes ahead and you get a chance to run your sub 3.




  • Thanks for that, have done a few marathons mostly as a finsih to the triathlon season, only really put in 8 weeks of constant running last year with most of them easy pace mile. got a PB of 3.07 in Dublin, my breathing was fine the last few miles it was just my legs that let me down. hence why i decided to give the Hanson method a go as it alot of mile at a certain pace.

    I have no injuries at present and have no real history of injuries (think the swimmign helps keep them at bay), i just feel that the strength and the tempo seassions only being 2 days apart is leading to my legs getting tight during the runs and feeling like my calf is about to go.

    i meant doing the long run at a slow enough pace with the final 6mile being tempo.

    i agree with what ur saying either ur in or ur out! just didnt feel like i could keep programme going for another 7 weeks, it was working, did a half marathon time trial 2 weeks ago and ran it in 1.23 (down from 1.28 last year)




  • The_Geezer wrote: »
    Thanks for that, have done a few marathons mostly as a finsih to the triathlon season, only really put in 8 weeks of constant running last year with most of them easy pace mile. got a PB of 3.07 in Dublin, my breathing was fine the last few miles it was just my legs that let me down. hence why i decided to give the Hanson method a go as it alot of mile at a certain pace.

    I have no injuries at present and have no real history of injuries (think the swimmign helps keep them at bay), i just feel that the strength and the tempo seassions only being 2 days apart is leading to my legs getting tight during the runs and feeling like my calf is about to go.

    i meant doing the long run at a slow enough pace with the final 6mile being tempo.

    i agree with what ur saying either ur in or ur out! just didnt feel like i could keep programme going for another 7 weeks, it was working, did a half marathon time trial 2 weeks ago and ran it in 1.23 (down from 1.28 last year)

    Hmmm, it WAS working! I know what you mean by the short rest between Tues and Thurs - that's what I was really concerned about, but I managed it, to my surprise. I did almost always do a short recovery run on Weds though. I agree that you either buy into this plan or you don't. The authors say if you tweak anything it should be in easy miles and/or warm up and cool down. No-one can really answer the question of the calf issue, at least not a normal non-medical poster like me.




  • Was/is might not be lol, i had been following the plan religiously up until 2 weeks ago, didn’t do the last 2 tempo sessions and did 20 easy mile on Sunday instead of [email protected] MP+40 have kept all the other days the same did the 3X2mile strength session yesterday. there was no doubt the cumulative fatigue was getting to me. i maybe could have kept it up if i was 100% sure that Galway will go ahead, but i think the chances of it going ahead are very slim now! The first time I did the plan before Belfast was cancelled I got it very tough until week 6 or so and something clicked and the tempo miles felt relatively enjoyable, haven’t had that moment in this block through




  • The_Geezer wrote: »
    Was/is might not be lol, i had been following the plan religiously up until 2 weeks ago, didn’t do the last 2 tempo sessions and did 20 easy mile on Sunday instead of [email protected] MP+40 have kept all the other days the same did the 3X2mile strength session yesterday. there was no doubt the cumulative fatigue was getting to me. i maybe could have kept it up if i was 100% sure that Galway will go ahead, but i think the chances of it going ahead are very slim now! The first time I did the plan before Belfast was cancelled I got it very tough until week 6 or so and something clicked and the tempo miles felt relatively enjoyable, haven’t had that moment in this block through

    Hanson offers the leeway to swap Thursday and Friday around if you feel more recovery between the 2 sessions is needed but dropping 2 tempos and subbing is easy 20m to address cumulative fatigue is a step away from the plan/method and what it is aiming to do. The tempos and the 16milers are key runs in a Hanson cycle.




  • Hoping someone can help, I've started the plan and tomorrow is the first repeat session.

    It says 400 with jog recovery for 50-100% of interval time.

    What does that mean in layman's terms?




  • Hoping someone can help, I've started the plan and tomorrow is the first repeat session.

    It says 400 with jog recovery for 50-100% of interval time.

    What does that mean in layman's terms?

    They give it in layman's terms in the book in the very next line to saying the rest should be 50-100%...."For instance, if the repeat is 2 minutes in duration, the recovery should be between 1 and 2 minutes"!!!


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  • FBOT01 wrote: »
    They give it in layman's terms in the book in the very next line to saying the rest should be 50-100%...."For instance, if the repeat is 2 minutes in duration, the recovery should be between 1 and 2 minutes"!!!

    Ah, that's what was confusing. When I've done repeats before my recovery was the distance of the repeat.

    So with this if it takes me 2mins for the repeat I should just jog for between 1-2 mins and then go again?


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