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Hansons Method

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  • Honestly I dont think the speed session are the deal breaker. I missed a few but hit most of the MP. Take that with a pinch of salt though. I liked most that the speedwork was early in the plan. I was happy to be done with them and quite enjoyed the longer strength sessions. I did feel that while the weeks went by and the speed reps progressed from 400s to horrible 1600s that I could replace any session with 5k worth of quality intervals and be happy with the session. Perhaps the specific progression of the speed intervals would count more for 5-10k.

    By pinch of salt I've only used the plan once, am a newbie to the sub3 gang and have never trained for 5 or 10ks (apart from running them off a swim/bike)


    Thanks for that. Yeah it was the focus on the MP miles that attracted me to the Hanson plan in the first place. First one of those tomorrow week, if I can get healthy and get through that ok i'll feel a lot better about having an interrupted start to the plan.




  • sideswipe wrote: »
    Thanks for that. Yeah it was the focus on the MP miles that attracted me to the Hanson plan in the first place. First one of those tomorrow week, if I can get healthy and get through that ok i'll feel a lot better about having an interrupted start to the plan.

    I generally agree. The speed and strength sessions are important, but the tempo and long run stuff was more meaningful for me. I went into the plan relatively well trained from a 5k/10k perspective so that's not surprising. I guess the main thing is to target your weaknesses, but to also make sure that you have a fast enough base so that the strength and tempo sessions aren't beyond where you are.




  • Singer wrote: »
    I generally agree. The speed and strength sessions are important, but the tempo and long run stuff was more meaningful for me. I went into the plan relatively well trained from a 5k/10k perspective so that's not surprising. I guess the main thing is to target your weaknesses, but to also make sure that you have a fast enough base so that the strength and tempo sessions aren't beyond where you are.
    Hmmm fast enough base or strong enough base? The base is aerobic capacity. The stronger, the faster you recover or the higher your aerobic threshold. Happy to be corrected..




  • The plan is a system - all the pieces matter.

    Sure, some types of session will feel easier than others, but the plan feels tough because of the SOS sessions, the progression within each type, and the interaction between the three types of SOS.

    I'd imagine this progression/interaction feels different for everyone. I found the speed sessions relatively easy, possibly because I had been doing similar sessions week in week out at the club for years. The strength sessions felt harder, and the MP tempos were generally the toughest runs - all the tougher because they came a couple of days after the speed/strength sessions - i.e. minimum recovery.

    But the main thing was that it was all manageable as long as the target pace was right.

    A fairly noticeable difference between Hanson and P&D (for me anyway) is that Hanson starts with speed and progresses to more LT-pased sessions, whereas P&D is the opposite, progressing to speed. Hanson therefore feels more specific, especially with the added specificity of the 'tempo' runs.

    Both plans, of course, assume you already have the aerobic base.




  • Hi Guys, first time poster!

    Have ran a few marathons before with DCM 2019 being the last and by far a PB of 3.07. Have never reallly ran to any sort of structure (just mostly easy miles with a few speed sessions)
    would anyone have the Hanson sub 3 plan on a spreadsheet they could point me towards as reading breifly here, it seems like it would suit me.


    cheers


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  • I don't have the link to the plan but it's worth having a look at shotgunmcos training log leading up to limerick marathon last year successfully going after sub 3 using hansons plan.




  • I don't have the link to the plan but it's worth having a look at shotgunmcos training log leading up to limerick marathon last year successfully going after sub 3 using hansons plan.

    Cheers, not sure how to use this board,. How do I bring that up?

    TIA




  • The_Geezer wrote: »
    Hi Guys, first time poster!

    Have ran a few marathons before with DCM 2019 being the last and by far a PB of 3.07. Have never reallly ran to any sort of structure (just mostly easy miles with a few speed sessions)
    would anyone have the Hanson sub 3 plan on a spreadsheet they could point me towards as reading breifly here, it seems like it would suit me.


    cheers

    It would really be in your interest to buy the book - the schedule alone isn’t enough to go on.




  • The_Geezer wrote: »
    Cheers, not sure how to use this board,. How do I bring that up?

    TIA

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057926732/1




  • Murph_D wrote: »

    Hi Geezer

    .xlsx file of the advanced plan attached
    As Murph D mentioned its is well worth reading the book. Its available for Kindle too on amazon

    You really need to 1. understand the method of cumulative fatigue and 2. build a base before starting the advanced plan.

    I mostly followed it by the book but had 2 weeks of flu that I had to adapt the program to without chasing etc..

    This thread is worth a read too lots of helpful tips (so many from Murph himself).


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  • Cheers guys, I ordered the book today. Surprising that the long runs don't go over 16mile. I usually add 2 a well until I peak at 22. I'll give it a go anyhow




  • I'm gonna give the Advanced Plan a go for the Cork full this year. Plan starts proper on the 27th of this month. I've been doing a few "get you ready" weeks in the lead in to it. So far so good.
    Like everyone else I find it unnerving that the LSR peaks at 16miles. I know that come the week of those runs I'll definitely find it hard not to add a bit onto them.




  • I'm gonna give the Advanced Plan a go for the Cork full this year. Plan starts proper on the 27th of this month. I've been doing a few "get you ready" weeks in the lead in to it. So far so good.
    Like everyone else I find it unnerving that the LSR peaks at 16miles. I know that come the week of those runs I'll definitely find it hard not to add a bit onto them.

    Wont be as hard as you think. Your legs will be pretty fatigued by then. Best piece of advice I could give about this plan is pay attention to recovery between sessions.




  • Wont be as hard as you think. Your legs will be pretty fatigued by then. Best piece of advice I could give about this plan is pay attention to recovery between sessions.

    That's one of the big things I took from reading the book. I've done the P&D 55m plan several times but I've always picked up a niggle or gotten a cramp on the day.
    I've kicked off a good core program in the last few months and that coupled with foam rolling regularly should make a difference.

    I'll let ye know how it goes.




  • Finish the 2nd week of the plan tomorrow.. Can't believe how tired the legs are already. Starting to see the method behind the plan now




  • Week 8 of the advanced plan for me. Enjoying the plan so far.

    Have been a little unsure on paces for the 'long' runs on the alternate weeks to the LR's at long run pace. Was doing some investigation and it seems that Luke Humphrey and the Hanson bro's are prescribing pace ranges now instead of the more rigid pace guides in the book.
    I was looking at paces for somewhere between 2:55 and 3:00 finish and that has LR pace around 7:17 min/mi according to the book. The training calculator online gives the following-

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  • Yeah I ran 7.20 for 10 mile long run yesterday. Hr averaged 166bpm but it felt OK. The plan is leaving my legs alot tirder than previous training for marathons.




  • Well I'm into week 7 of my second go with this plan, leading up to Boston. I followed it for Valencia in 2018 and was really happy with the results, dipping under 3 hours for the first time.

    Like Itziger, I wonder if I would have PBd in any case using another plan. It was my 6th marathon and I'd always taken at least a few minutes off, so there's every chance I would have done it on Hal Higdon or P&D. I will say that the last 10k of this was the strongest I've ever felt finishing a marathon.

    I enjoyed the plan overall, and almost stuck to it. I did have the usual doubts, and ended up pushing one of the long runs out to 30k. I think I've more faith in the plan this time around, and won't do that again...probably. :D I think the midweek sos runs keep it interesting, and always seem to leave you just teetering on the edge.

    I took a week out last time, and took on a 10k in Munich, and I'm doing the same this time around with a half-marathon in Seville this weekend.

    Oh, finally. A month or two after Valencia the last time, I ran some very solid PBs in 5k and half races, and I definitely feel like Hansons helped with that.

    Well, I'll check in here and keep you up to date.




  • You seem to be suggesting that there is no need to pimp the plan?




  • Murph_D wrote: »
    You seem to be suggesting that there is no need to pimp the plan?

    What I would suggest is that those who designed it know a lot more about it than me. I think that the outcome of any work or study they've put into the structure would naturally make more sense than any changes that I would make.

    I think I would be reluctant to take on a plan like this if I'd never done the big long marathon runs before, and not having that certain level of confidence that comes from knowing that you've done it all before. I wonder if that stems from my background, though. I took a lot of my advice from people on here for my first five marathons, where all the talk was of getting in 2 or 3 20-milers, as if it would be impossible without them. With that burned into your mind, it's hard to forget about it. I don't know, but I do wonder how I would have gotten on if I'd encountered Hansons first time around.

    Either way, I'm pleased with my progress using a combination of different plans and styles. My first Marathon was in the 3:50s and I BQd last time out, so something went right.


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  • Lurker of this thread for a while but first time posting.

    Bit of a background, this is the second time using the Hanson method. First time was for DCM 2019, trained to 3:25 paces but missed 3-4 weeks in the middle of the plan due to shin splints and ended up finishing in 3:33.

    Bit of base building after DCM before starting the next training block and am now at t-8 weeks to next marathon. Have been training at 3:20 paces through the first 9-10 weeks. Ran a 10 mile race yesterday to check how the fitness was and ran 1:07:30.

    Should I adjust the training paces for the rest of the plan to match current fitness or drive on with the original time? This week is last week of speed work before moving to strength workouts.




  • MuchoKudos wrote: »
    Lurker of this thread for a while but first time posting.

    Bit of a background, this is the second time using the Hanson method. First time was for DCM 2019, trained to 3:25 paces but missed 3-4 weeks in the middle of the plan due to shin splints and ended up finishing in 3:33.

    Bit of base building after DCM before starting the next training block and am now at t-8 weeks to next marathon. Have been training at 3:20 paces through the first 9-10 weeks. Ran a 10 mile race yesterday to check how the fitness was and ran 1:07:30.

    Should I adjust the training paces for the rest of the plan to match current fitness or drive on with the original time? This week is last week of speed work before moving to strength workouts.

    What have you been running your MP tempos at and how have they felt? Plugging into a race equivalency calculator seems 3:08 or so. So if MP tempos are comfortable at 3:20 pace, try 3:10 for the 9m tempos coming up to see how they feel

    https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/hmmcalculator/race_equivalency_calculator.php




  • What have you been running your MP tempos at and how have they felt? Plugging into a race equivalency calculator seems 3:08 or so. So if MP tempos are comfortable at 3:20 pace, try 3:10 for the 9m tempos coming up to see how they feel

    The last 3 MP's have been averaging close to 4:42 actually on review, one of the 6 milers was 4:38. Looks like I've been running them closer to 3:15 pace, hadn't realised. They have been ok and held pace for them all. May as well try them at 3:10 pace.

    The speed sessions have felt tougher than MPs actually, like the last 3X1600m was tough at 4:05 pace. Long runs have been fine around 5:00 pace.

    Does feel like a big jump to go from 3:33 to 3:10 in this space of time, have only been running a year though so maybe plenty of room for improvement.




  • Week 7 of the plan now and can definitely feel it in the legs. Just a quick question, I've had to do a good few tempo, and intervel sessions on the threadmill due to the weather and a couple of them on a running track. I'm not sure if completing these session on a treadmill/running track is giving me a false sense of confidence. What do you all think of running on the threadmill vs the road




  • The_Geezer wrote: »
    Week 7 of the plan now and can definitely feel it in the legs. Just a quick question, I've had to do a good few tempo, and intervel sessions on the threadmill due to the weather and a couple of them on a running track. I'm not sure if completing these session on a treadmill/running track is giving me a false sense of confidence. What do you all think of running on the threadmill vs the road

    The fitness benefit is there, don't worry. Its more the mental tenacity of dealing with the elements or hills on the day. If I could pick any sessions I'd recommend doing the MP sessions on the road and/or the long run. The weather has been crap lately for sure but you just have to get out there. Its rarely as bad as it looks. Once you get running after a mile or two you warm up and it can often be enjoyable to run in the rain. It can feel good for your confidence that you complete a session in a headwind.




  • Yes, I know what u mean, hopefully the weather improves. Was meant to go for an op on nose next thur which would mean missing two weeks training.. Just had a 4th child born three weeks ago also (just getting the excuses out of the way! Lol) Just got a phone call postponing it til march 26th. Just 5 weeks out from marathon. So it really will be touch and go of I can go under the sub 3. Will ente r carlingford half now in two weeks to see if I'm on course for the time or am I deluding myself!




  • The_Geezer wrote: »
    Week 7 of the plan now and can definitely feel it in the legs. Just a quick question, I've had to do a good few tempo, and intervel sessions on the threadmill due to the weather and a couple of them on a running track. I'm not sure if completing these session on a treadmill/running track is giving me a false sense of confidence. What do you all think of running on the threadmill vs the road

    Agree with shotgunmcos on this. Getting out and overcoming the elements is beneficial to mental conditioning.
    I've done one tempo on the treadmill because I was house bound with child care duties. I worked off HR rather than pace as I do feel the treadmill is easier. The good thing about having the tempos every week is you know exactly where the HR should be. I have a great treadmill at home and it's set up with Netflix and sky sports etc so when the weather is **** it's a real temptation but I never regret getting the gear, getting out and dialling into the session with full focus rather than jumping onto the treadmill.

    ps I started a training log using the Hanson plan which might be of interest.




  • Very important I would say to do the tempos especially on the road, in conditions simulating the marathon course if possible i.e. rolling hills if relevant (and maybe even if not).

    I certainly wouldn't see a problem with doing speed and strength sessions on the track. I've done a lot of them on the track myself in the past. In fact I think it's a better environment for controlling the pace and effort.

    Treadmill for easy/recovery runs only, I'd say. Very important to get out running in poor conditions, it's never that bad that you can't get out.

    The operation 5 weeks out is a potential problem, if it was me and if it was possible to postpone (assuming it's not too critical) I would try to do so, especially if there are large amounts of painkillers and/or antibiotics involved in the recovery period.




  • Cheers for the advice guys, I suppose I. Will have to put my big boy pants on and make sure and get on the road for tempo sessions. Last of the 7 mile ones is up tomorrow. I postponed it already for the Dublin marathon there in Oct soi think the wife will kill me if I do it again! Lol I will do the carlingford half in a couple of weeks as a tester to see where I am currently at


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  • Guys, planning on racing a half marathon on 14th, what are ur thougths on cutting out the intervel and tempo sessions that week? I think i will ahve to cut the tempo one out as it drains me alot more than the speed sessions.


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