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Token women commentators in men’rt

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    #152
    mordeith
    Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭mordeith


    ThewhiteJesus wrote: »
    It's just gender instinct a woman will pull out of the real tough aggressive challenge to avoid injury, where as a man will go in full pelt regardless of consequence. You could argue what's the smarter move but i much prefer watching a war on the pitch and then pundits explaining from experience what i've just seen

    You couldn't say that at the last women's world cup. Lots of full blooded tackles and far less drama as opposed to Neymar and countless other players acting like they'd been shot and calling for yellow cards all day. The women's game is far more honest than their male counterparts.


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    #153
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    D'oh! :o

    Anna Walker was another one.

    It does look very whingey though.

    There are comments like "100% tokens" - I've asked why. Not a word in response of course though. It really depends on the sport.

    Someone even admitted Kelly Dalglish knows her stuff while at the same time going on about it being tokenism. There you go - knowing your stuff should surely be enough.

    She does know her stuff... I never said she knows it any better than many male presenters or pundits though.

    But yes, she probably is the most impressive woman in that capacity in the sport in terms of her depth of knowledge. (for me anyway)

    She also happens to be easy on the eye too... and even more so when she was younger. So I would have my doubts, that she was hired solely for her knowledge! (Although who knows? I could be wrong!)

    Most women in the sport - the vast majority - are tokens. Most men know this, many women even know this... most people are not willing to admit it though!

    But why should there be any obligation to hire women in men's professional sport? It's not the same as other areas of society... it is a gender-specific work place... there is nothing sexist about only hiring men in a men only sport! :)


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    #154
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,214 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    She does know her stuff... I never said she knows it any better than many male presenters or pundits though.

    But yes, she probably is the most impressive woman in that capacity in the sport in terms of her depth of knowledge. (for me anyway)

    She also happens to be easy on the eye too... and even more so when she was younger. So I would have my doubts, that she was hired solely for her knowledge! (Although who knows? I could be wrong!)

    Most women in the sport - the vast majority - are tokens. Most men know this, many women even know this... most people are not willing to admit it though!

    But why should there be any obligation to hire women in men's professional sport? It's not the same as other areas of society... it is a gender-specific work place... there is nothing sexist about only hiring men in a men only sport! :)

    They are not being hired for mens sport. they are being hired for TV. you seem unable to distinguish between the two.


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    #155
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    They are not being hired for mens sport. they are being hired for TV. you seem unable to distinguish between the two.

    lol

    :rolleyes:


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    #156
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    Punditry itself is gone to the dogs anyway and that's across the board.
    We've had Giles and Dunphy admitting they've not watched European football, Jamie 'triffic' Redknapp, Mark Lawrenson and Danny Murphy who look like they hate their jobs and so on.

    If we're applying the criteria that "they should have played the game" then the professional sports world moves so quickly nowadays that players who retired 5/10/15 years ago become out of touch too.


    Personally, I think there's starting to be more value in fan driven analysis rather than these professional "talking heads" spitting out cliché after cliché.


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    #157
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Can an amateur play the game and enjoy, of course...will an amateur have the required level of football intelligence to be a capable pundit....that is very very unlikely.

    Simply nonsense.

    Mourinho, Klopp, Benitez, Wenger some of the greatest managers of all time hardly kicked a ball between them at the professional level much less the top level. Klopp was the best of the bunch and he even admits he was bog-standard.

    You can have a great understanding of a game/sport without being particularly good at it yourself. Your mind and your body are just on different wavelengths. It's why top players don't always make top coaches. It's one thing doing something yourself but it's a whole other world trying to get someone else to do it.

    Plenty of examples in all sports where ordinary players become top level coaches.


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    #158
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    She does know her stuff... I never said she knows it any better than many male presenters or pundits though.

    But yes, she probably is the most impressive woman in that capacity in the sport in terms of her depth of knowledge. (for me anyway)

    She also happens to be easy on the eye too... and even more so when she was younger. So I would have my doubts, that she was hired solely for her knowledge! (Although who knows? I could be wrong!)

    Most women in the sport - the vast majority - are tokens. Most men know this, many women even know this... most people are not willing to admit it though!

    But why should there be any obligation to hire women in men's professional sport? It's not the same as other areas of society... it is a gender-specific work place... there is nothing sexist about only hiring men in a men only sport! :)
    Well I said in the same post which you quoted, that I don't think people should be hired on the basis of their sex, but they should be hired on their ability, so if a woman is hired who is good at the job, what's the problem?


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    #159
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    But why should there be any obligation to hire women in men's professional sport? It's not the same as other areas of society... it is a gender-specific work place... there is nothing sexist about only hiring men in a men only sport! :)

    There's no obligation - it's just sensible for the TV station.

    As has been pointed out they are not employed as footballers, they are employed as pundits / commentators / presenters etc. It's an entirely different discipline.


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    #160
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    In the 90s there were numerous female - not pundits but presenters and reporters on Sky Sports football programmes. E.g. Gabby Logan, Gabby Yorath, Kirsty Gallacher... and nobody gave a sh1t.

    I get the feeling that this is just part of the "Waaaah, women have it better" narrative everywhere these past few years.

    Gabby Logan and Gabby Yorath are the same person.


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    #161
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Plenty of examples in all sports where ordinary players become top level coaches.

    And vice versa....Gary Neville anyone:D


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    #162
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    razorblunt wrote: »
    Gabby Logan and Gabby Yorath are the same person.

    Haha !


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    #163
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,754 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    Wheres the transgender pundits? Eh?

    Jamie Redknapp would make a fine woman, lets get a petition going.


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    #164
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    razorblunt wrote: »
    Gabby Logan and Gabby Yorath are the same person.
    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    Haha !
    Yes, already covered thanks. :)
    Stevieluvsye wrote: »
    LOL

    Same person
    Raconteuse wrote: »
    D'oh! :o


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    #165
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    Well I said in the same post which you quoted, that I don't think people should be hired in the basis of their sex, but they should be hired on their ability, so if a woman is hired who is good at the job, what's the problem?

    The problem is there shouldn't be any obligation to hire women, in a sport that is only for men. But the PC culture is putting pressure on people, to give equal opportunities to women in a sector of society that is a gender-specific workplace!

    Look, I'm not offended when I see a woman talking about men's football... and occasionally you do get someone like Daglish, who is worth her place based on her knowledge! But does she deserve to be there over a man? Not in this industry she doesn't...

    Of course people will think I'm sexist for saying that... but I'm not. It's just people's pre-set mentality from how we operate in practically every other area of society!

    And the token women being hired, who are clearly just eye-candy in most cases... that's irritating if you are a genuine fan of the sport. (I say that as someone who is very much a fan of women btw;))


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    #166
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,214 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    Yes, already covered thanks. :)

    To be fair she is worth mentioning twice. :D


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    #167
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    There's no obligation - it's just sensible for the TV station.

    As has been pointed out they are not employed as footballers, they are employed as pundits / commentators / presenters etc. It's an entirely different discipline.

    Presenters yes.

    Pundits and commentators are not entirely different.

    Women are being hired to fill a quota... Alex Scott does not have exceptional analysis on the sport. Just because some male pundits also do not have exceptional insight, this still doesn't validate hiring women just to pander to gender politics!

    An average male pundit, has more right to a place on a studio panel than an average female pundit... because it is their sport. But they are denied that opportunity, because of gender quota politics BS!


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    #168
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    Presenters yes.

    Pundits and commentators are not entirely different.

    Women are being hired to fill a quota... Alex Scott does not have exceptional analysis on the sport. Just because some male pundits also do not have exceptional insight, this still doesn't validate hiring women just to pander to gender politics!

    An average male pundit, has more right to a place on a studio panel than an average female pundit... because it is their sport. But they are denied that opportunity, because of gender quota politics BS!

    Alexa Scott is ok, she's better on BBC than on Sky, I found. She was brilliant during the World Cup. Sky tend to dim all pundits anyway.
    Roy Keane was shouting about Pickford "he's not a good goalkeeper" which is brilliant for their clickbait twitter updates but how about you explain it, Roy.

    For what it's worth he's right.


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    #169
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    Presenters yes.

    Pundits and commentators are not entirely different.

    Women are being hired to fill a quota... Alex Scott does not have exceptional analysis on the sport. Just because some male pundits also do not have exceptional insight, this still doesn't validate hiring women just to pander to gender politics!

    An average male pundit, has more right to a place on a studio panel than an average female pundit... because it is their sport. But they are denied that opportunity, because of gender quota politics BS!

    She's not bad. I've seen many far worse blokes waffling away over the years.
    Plus she's drop dead gorgeous which lets face it, never hurts when you are in front of a camera for a living.

    An average male pundit has absolutely no more right than an average female pundit. Why would they?

    It is not their sport - football is football, women play football, women watch football - why in the name of blessed Ronaldinho could they not talk about football?

    Punditry is thinking and talking, not playing!

    I can practically guarantee you that Alex Scott makes a better pundit than Wayne Rooney.


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    #170
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,189 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    and that is why the best players always make the best pundits, right?

    Well at least they should have industry experience!!!!


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    #171
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,214 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Well at least they should have industry experience!!!!

    yes because top level footballers have long experience of speaking intelligently.


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    #172
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,189 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Simply nonsense.

    Mourinho, Klopp, Benitez, Wenger some of the greatest managers of all time hardly kicked a ball between them at the professional level much less the top level. Klopp was the best of the bunch and he even admits he was bog-standard.

    You can have a great understanding of a game/sport without being particularly good at it yourself. Your mind and your body are just on different wavelengths. It's why top players don't always make top coaches. It's one thing doing something yourself but it's a whole other world trying to get someone else to do it.

    Plenty of examples in all sports where ordinary players become top level coaches.

    They were all involved in the game at the highest level....why has this conversation moved into management....and entirely different profession.


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    #173
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    An average male pundit has absolutely no more right than an average female pundit. Why would they?

    Why would they?

    That's obvious, I've already said it... it's their sport... MEN'S professional football.

    Of course a male pundit has more right to be there than a female pundit.

    This isn't the business world... it's not a fortune 500 company! There is no obligation to hire any women. Why would there be?


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    #174
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,189 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    yes because top level footballers have long experience of speaking intelligently.

    Right cause they are all buffoons right...

    You might have little respect for men who have achieved at the highest level of an extremely competitive global sport they have had to survive in since they were about 10 years old....but not everyone is like you!


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    #175
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,214 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Right cause they are all buffoons right...

    You might have little respect for men who have achieved at the highest level of an extremely competitive global sport they have had to survive in since they were about 10 years old....but not everyone is like you!

    your comprehension is at the same level as your mates.


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    #176
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,189 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    your comprehension is at the same level as your mates.

    Go away out of it you bluffer!!!


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    #177
    Pauliedragon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    Why would they?

    That's obvious, I've already said it... it's their sport... MEN'S professional football.

    Of course a male pundit has more right to be there than a female pundit.

    This isn't the business world... it's not a fortune 500 company! There is no obligation to hire any women. Why would there be?
    Sport is business these days to be fair. I'm sure there is a theory having female pundit might attract more female viewers but the theory they're not qualified is a bit off to me. I'd listen to the likes of Dan Mcdonnell for example about soccer over most the retired professionals on sky for and he never played professional himself.


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    #178
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,214 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Go away out of it you bluffer!!!

    explain to me how playing football at the top level translates readily into being able to talk about it intelligently?


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    #179
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    razorblunt wrote: »
    Alexa Scott is ok, she's better on BBC than on Sky, I found. She was brilliant during the World Cup. Sky tend to dim all pundits anyway.
    Roy Keane was shouting about Pickford "he's not a good goalkeeper" which is brilliant for their clickbait twitter updates but how about you explain it, Roy.

    For what it's worth he's right.

    I've found her to be very average tbh.

    I'm glad you mentioned Roy Keane... grumpy fecker as he is, still an outstanding pundit on the game nonetheless!

    It's obvious Pickford is error prone. The only reason Keane was being questioned on his opinion, is because he's England No.1 and they have to stick up for him on the TV! Most people know Keane was correct! ;)


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    #180
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    ohnonotgmail wrote:
    yes because top level footballers have long experience of speaking intelligently.

    Not every one is. Of course not. But there are more than enough that can. And they should be considered before someone put there because of their vagina and some equality quota.


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    #181
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    Why would they?

    That's obvious, I've already said it... it's their sport... MEN'S professional football.

    Of course a male pundit has more right to be there than a female pundit.

    This isn't the business world... it's not a fortune 500 company! There is no obligation to hire any women. Why would there be?

    So obvious in fact that it's hard to see!

    So what is it then exactly, does oestrogen render them incapable of looking at other people playing a game and comprehending what's going on? Do they just get distracted by their own tits? What?

    You do understand there is a difference between actually doing a thing and talking about other people doing it....don't you?


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