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Token women commentators in men’rt

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12357…13

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    #122
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,038 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Stunning and brave!!!!

    Right...this is just about appearing virtuous to the like's of you I see....

    No. It’s about an intense dislike for Ray and Jim.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #123
    Rayden Bald Road
    Posts: 0 ✭ Rayden Bald Road


    Jim Root wrote: »
    can't turn on sports tv these days without seeing Alex scott.

    And long may it continue.


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    #124
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,038 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Jim Root wrote: »
    can't turn on sports tv these days without seeing Alex scott.

    Who’s Alex Scott. I watch everything from cycling to tiddlywinks and have no idea.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #125
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    Brian? wrote: »
    Who’s Alex Scott. I watch everything from cycling to tiddlywinks and have no idea.

    She is sky sports token female pundit... every progressive's wet dream basically! Folks struggling not to soil themselves, every time she opens her mouth! :P

    She's an average pundit - but somehow gets rave reviews, just because she has a vagina! :D

    Everyone got butthurt recently, because Graeme Souness cut her off mid sentence... which had nothing to do with her gender, and everything to do with the mundane point she was labouring to make!

    I've nothing against her personally btw. I don't actually blame her trying to get a better job in men's football. I blame the people so eager to use her for their own foolish agenda!


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    #126
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,038 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    She is sky sports token female pundit... every progressive's wet dream basically! Folks struggling not to soil themselves, every time she opens her mouth! :P

    She's an average pundit - but somehow gets rave reviews, just because she has a vagina! :D

    Everyone got butthurt recently, because Graeme Souness cut her off mid sentence... which had nothing to do with her gender, and everything to do with the mundane point she was labouring to make!

    I've nothing against her personally btw. I don't actually blame her trying to get a better job in men's football. I blame the people so eager to use her for their own foolish agenda!

    In argument involving Souness, I’m on the other side. I’d say I’m not he only one.

    I think I’ve seen her on Sky Sports. She was just as bland as the rest of them.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #127
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,911 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Brian? wrote: »
    No. It’s about an intense dislike for Ray and Jim.

    Without a doubt, you can add Ronnie Whelan to that list of awful commentators.

    Soccer and GAA have awful commentators in the main. Just bland ****é talk without adding any real value to it. Compare that to Tony Romo in the NFL coverage as it's clear the difference in quality is huge.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #128
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    It's always ironic to demand that every pundit be an ex pro at the highest level yet every workplace, pub and indeed, football thread in boards, is full of people talking sh1te about football having never played at even a decent schoolboy level.

    As for pundits, just because they played at a high level doesn't mean they can analyse the game in a way that is cogent and interesting to viewers that haven't played at that level. They being, after all, the overwhelming majority of the viewership.


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    #129
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    do men do commentary for women's sports? i presume they do. dont see an issue tbh . it is tokensim but you won't notice it after a while.


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    #130
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,320 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    She is sky sports token female pundit... every progressive's wet dream basically! Folks struggling not to soil themselves, every time she opens her mouth! :P

    She's an average pundit - but somehow gets rave reviews, just because she has a vagina! :D

    Everyone got butthurt recently, because Graeme Souness cut her off mid sentence... which had nothing to do with her gender, and everything to do with the mundane point she was labouring to make!

    I've nothing against her personally btw. I don't actually blame her trying to get a better job in men's football. I blame the people so eager to use her for their own foolish agenda!

    most pundits are average. she is no worse than the men doing the same job.


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    #131
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    most pundits are average. she is no worse than the men doing the same job.

    If you were talking about the board of directors in some real world business setting, you would be correct in that way of thinking.

    But this is men's professional football... there is zero obligation to employ female pundits. (Or referees/linesmen etc) It is one of those rare sections of society, where it should be perfectly acceptable to favour one gender over the other!

    And so my point is, that men should be given these punditry jobs over women... they should be given complete priority. It's their sport. There is nothing sexist about this view either.

    And I think the same should be the case for women's sport too. (More women need to take an interest in their own sports, for this to change!)


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    #132
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,320 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    If you were talking about the board of directors in some real world business setting, you would be correct in that way of thinking.

    But this is men's professional football... there is zero obligation to employ female pundits. (Or referees/linesmen etc) It is one of those rare sections of society, where is should be perfectly acceptable to favour one gender over the other!

    And so my point is, that men should be given these punditry jobs over women... they should be given complete priority. It's their sport. There is nothing sexist about this view either.

    And I think the same should be the case for women's sport too. (More women need to take an interest in their own sports, for this to change!)

    well that is just total bollix.


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    #133
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    well that is just total bollix.

    Why?


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    #134
    str8talkingguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 201 ✭✭str8talkingguy


    There are token women getting these jobs now but your irritation isn't coming from this op,its coming from them being insecure in their positions because they feel like the token women and they often don't relax and be trotting out cliche after cliche.If they settle and start to give their own opinions the feeling of irritation will go away.

    Nobody needs ex pros to make a good pundit either,you just need people willing and unafraid to voice their own opinions and thoughts,back in the early days of Dunphy for a couple years i didn't realise Dunphy was en ex pro i thought he was just a journalist,but it didn't make me less want to hear him because he wasn't afraid to voice an opinion,once the women become comfortable and voice their opinions instead of a line of cliches they will fit right in.


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    #135
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,320 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    Why?

    mens Football and womens football is the same game. there are no differences. Pundits should be chosen based on ability and nothing else. Former players do not have a right to earn a living as a pundit


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    #136
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    In the 90s there were numerous female - not pundits but presenters and reporters on Sky Sports football programmes. E.g. Gabby Logan, Gabby Yorath, Kirsty Gallacher... and nobody gave a sh1t.

    I get the feeling that this is just part of the "Waaaah, women have it better" narrative everywhere these past few years.


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    #137
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    mens Football and womens football is the same game. there are no differences. Pundits should be chosen based on ability and nothing else. Former players do not have a right to earn a living as a pundit

    No they're not. Both forbid mixed genders to compete with each other. They are gender specific.

    Also... It may have the same rules, but the standards are nowhere near the same!

    There is no obligation to hire women, in men's professional football.

    People's instinct is to apply the same rules we apply in general society, regarding equal opportunities for both genders... but a gender specific sport is not the same as other areas of society!

    There is absolutely nothing sexist, if someone decided that they only wanted male pundits in men's professional football. If women were blocked from taking these jobs, there would be nothing sexist about that decision!


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    #138
    ThewhiteJesus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    In the 90s there were numerous female - not pundits but presenters and reporters on Sky Sports football programmes. E.g. Gabby Logan, Gabby Yorath, Kirsty Gallacher... and nobody gave a sh1t.

    I get the feeling that this is just part of the "Waaaah, women have it better" narrative everywhere these past few years.

    I'm the op, and again i like female sports so your comments cannot be directed at me, but the tokenism point still stands, and it's taken away from the enjoyment side of things especially with the punditry and analysis, the games are different by nature. Gabby still does a weekend sports show afaik but the other two simply read news


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    #139
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    The Orb wrote: »
    I didn't talk about Alex Scott or her's or any other female pundit's comprehension or lack of. I did mention that comprehension or knowledge of the theory is not enough. My point is that the women panellists are tokens, they may comprehend the game but never ever played at anything approaching the level of the men. It's the same with rugby. I'm all for women playing rugby if they want, but the standard is frankly brutal and nothing like the men's game and in the interests of equality we have to pretend that it's a good watch. Give me a break.

    What is enough then? A penis? I've admitted there's tokenism involved of course there is but they picked woman who has played professionally for years and knows the game so why isn't that enough. If the standard of the women's game isn't affecting her comprehension or knowledge why would she struggle to do punditry on a men's game?


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    #140
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    In the 90s there were numerous female - not pundits but presenters and reporters on Sky Sports football programmes. E.g. Gabby Logan, Gabby Yorath, Kirsty Gallacher... and nobody gave a sh1t.

    I get the feeling that this is just part of the "Waaaah, women have it better" narrative everywhere these past few years.

    No, the reason those women were on the show was to attract male viewers. Not dissimilar to having a cracking looking lounge girl ( sorry I should have said lounge person ) working in a pub. Kirsty Gallagher is a ride whose Dad was a successful golfer, they are presenting the show, not offering analysis of the sport.

    If anything their inclusion on those shows should have been infuriating the more militant feminists, as it was their sexual attractiveness which was being exploited to promote the show.

    You rarely see ugly women reading the sports news on Sky, do you?

    Kirsty Gallagher
    771066f47bcfacac5f143838f2bfcfc9.jpg
    Gabby Yorath / Logan
    020db26eb0657582995e3152f5dcab12--gabby-logan-british.jpg


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    #141
    Stevieluvsye
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Stevieluvsye


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    In the 90s there were numerous female - not pundits but presenters and reporters on Sky Sports football programmes. E.g. Gabby Logan, Gabby Yorath, Kirsty Gallacher... and nobody gave a sh1t.

    I get the feeling that this is just part of the "Waaaah, women have it better" narrative everywhere these past few years.

    LOL

    Same person


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    #142
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    In the 90s there were numerous female - not pundits but presenters and reporters on Sky Sports football programmes. E.g. Gabby Logan, Gabby Yorath, Kirsty Gallacher... and nobody gave a sh1t.

    I get the feeling that this is just part of the "Waaaah, women have it better" narrative everywhere these past few years.

    You forgot Kelly Dalglish! :D

    Who for me, puts someone like Alex Scott to shame with her vastly superior knowledge of the game... but Kelly also has the respect of most players, because she grew up around and completely immersed in the male game, and is the daughter of a famous ex-player!

    She also knows when to shut up, and let the ex-pros discuss things... like all great presenters should (Regardless of gender).

    There is a difference between a presenter and a pundit too btw. A presenter doesn't necessarily need to have vast knowledge on the subject they are presenting (it helps of course)... but they need to know how to present a show. It's a skill in and of itself.


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    #143
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,320 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    No they're not. Both forbid mixed genders to compete with each other. They are gender specific.

    Also... It may have the same rules, but the standards are nowhere near the same!

    There is no obligation to hire women, in men's professional football.

    People's instinct is to apply the same rules we apply in general society, regarding equal opportunities for both genders... but a gender specific sport is not the same as other areas of society!

    There is absolutely nothing sexist, if someone decided that they only wanted male pundits in men's professional football. If women were blocked from taking these jobs, there would be nothing sexist about that decision!

    football is not a gender specific sport. Next you will try to tell me that the 100m dash is a gender specific sport. the sport is the same.


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    #144
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    football is not a gender specific sport. Next you will try to tell me that the 100m dash is a gender specific sport. the sport is the same.

    It's not a mixed gender sport, so they are different.

    You're just being obtuse now... I'll leave you to it. ;)

    (I've seen enough of your "debates" around here, to have the sense to know when to walk away! :P)


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    #145
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    football is not a gender specific sport. Next you will try to tell me that the 100m dash is a gender specific sport. the sport is the same.

    Football tests different parts of the male physical and mental capabilities, the obvious ones are speed, endurance etc but it also tests a man's spacial awareness, certain positions test that more than others, but that is football intelligence and the higher the level a man plays, the more football intelligence is required.

    Can an amateur play the game and enjoy, of course...will an amateur have the required level of football intelligence to be a capable pundit....that is very very unlikely.

    Can women play the sport, course they can....just at a drastically lower standard than men can.

    Punditry should reflect that...but it no longer does...


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    #146
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    football is not a gender specific sport. Next you will try to tell me that the 100m dash is a gender specific sport. the sport is the same.

    But you would have to admit that the standard of women's soccer is atrocious in compared to the men's game? The same for Rugby as far as I can see?

    I mean I have no problem watching a women's Tennis match, or watching athletics, but the soccer is rubbish, I mean that.


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    #147
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    Stevieluvsye wrote: »
    LOL

    Same person
    D'oh! :o

    Anna Walker was another one.

    It does look very whingey though.

    There are comments like "100% tokens" - I've asked why. Not a word in response of course though. It really depends on the sport.

    Someone even admitted Kelly Dalglish knows her stuff while at the same time going on about it being tokenism. There you go - knowing your stuff should surely be enough.

    I sure as sh1t don't think people should be hired just based on their sex, but this thread is being used as an opportunity to be derogatory. E.g. "The way it is now is fine i.e females doing a bit of punditry here and there, commentating on a match no one is too arsed with etc.

    But tbh if I tuned into the champions league final or mens WC final and I heard a woman giving it all that, I’d be fuming. 

    Need some George Hamilton or Martin Tyler talking bollocks. Not some wan." - wow, the hostility is strong.


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    #148
    ThewhiteJesus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    But you would have to admit that the standard of women's soccer is atrocious in compared to the men's game? The same for Rugby as far as I can see?

    I mean I have no problem watching a women's Tennis match, or watching athletics, but the soccer is rubbish, I mean that.

    it's just different, soccer in particular, i watch a good bit of women's soccer and while the skills are all there, and hard work ect, there is no real physicality.
    It's just gender instinct a woman will pull out of the real tough aggressive challenge to avoid injury, where as a man will go in full pelt regardless of consequence. You could argue what's the smarter move but i much prefer watching a war on the pitch and then pundits explaining from experience what i've just seen


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    #149
    akelly02
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭akelly02


    the one one sky sports 'describing' the action between man city and man utd yesterday should be shot


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    #150
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Jim Root wrote: »
    can't turn on sports tv these days without seeing Alex scott.

    I personally can't see enough of her - that woman is a work of art!

    I don't see the problem with women commentators if they know what they are talking about (which Alex does I suppose) So what if she didn't compete at the same level?

    Being a good player / manager / pundit are not interchangeable terms.


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    #151
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,320 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Football tests different parts of the male physical and mental capabilities, the obvious ones are speed, endurance etc but it also tests a man's spacial awareness, certain positions test that more than others, but that is football intelligence and the higher the level a man plays, the more football intelligence is required.

    Can an amateur play the game and enjoy, of course...will an amateur have the required level of football intelligence to be a capable pundit....that is very very unlikely.

    Can women play the sport, course they can....just at a drastically lower standard than men can.

    Punditry should reflect that...but it no longer does...

    and that is why the best players always make the best pundits, right?


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