Token women commentators in men’rt

FunLover18

I just don't understand how you can completely rule out a person's opinion on something because of their gender which is what people are doing, they can dress it up as how they like it re standard but if you don't think women's standard is good enough, you're saying no woman will ever be able to do punditry on a men's football game.

Maybe rather than decrying it as PC nonsense ask why they're enacting it. Females pundits more than likely encourages more women to watch the game and become interested, it shows young boys and girls that football regardless of what gender is playing on the pitch is a sport for all genders. As I've pointed out before they didn't pull random women off the street they got women who know the game. I'm clearly not going to change anybody's mind here and I'm not going to change mine so g'luck to all.

Ironicname

FunLover18 wrote:

I just don't understand how you can completely rule out a person's opinion on something because of their gender which is what people are doing, they can dress it up as how they like it re standard but if you don't think women's standard is good enough, you're saying no woman will ever be able to do punditry on a men's football game.

That's on you then.

You are saying that you don't understand how a woman's experience isn't the same as a man's experience.

They are different.

I don't care how many sub par games a woman played in a sub par league. I'd rather hear from a elite professional who has experience in the game they are discussing.

Ironicname

FunLover18 wrote:

Maybe rather than decrying it as PC nonsense ask why they're enacting it. Females pundits more than likely encourages more women to watch the game and become interested, it shows young boys and girls that football regardless of what gender is playing on the pitch is a sport for all genders. As I've pointed out before they didn't pull random women off the street they got women who know the game. I'm clearly not going to change anybody's mind here and I'm not going to change mine so g'luck to all.

Football is for all genders. Women aren't as good as men. I've no doubt that Alex Scott would walk rings around me, but she's not nearly as good as the best of men.

There's the problem.

You want to say that any woman can do what a man can do.

They cant.

Any man can't do what a woman can do.

Sexes are different.

They typically are better at other things.

Equality of opportunity is right.

Anyone should be able to present themselves and their abilities to get the job they desire.

You should never favour someone based on their vagina or penis.

TheDavester

Anyone notice that Eni Aluko was taken off sky sports fairly quickly after that horrendous attempt at punditry a few weeks back ....she was covering the midday match during the Jeff Stelling soccer saturday show (usually its a either scouse woman - apologies cant remember her name with short blonde hair or Tony Cottee usually do it) and she couldn't make a coherent sentence, and after that Clinton Morrison took over on that spot over the last few weeks...Alex Scott is an average pundit (the female jermaine jenas) and over used but it has calmed down from last season where she was on sky/bbc on nearly every time a match was on

BT last season had a few good female pundits on the Europa league evenings while watching Chelsea - the Chelsea womens manager Hayes and they had an (ex) Arsenal player as well who were pretty decent

Agreed on the one who tries to commentate on Soccer Republic as if the game is presently going on, wtf is that

Some are good and others are meh

StupidLikeAFox

Ironicname wrote: »

That's on you then.

You are saying that you don't understand how a woman's experience isn't the same as a man's experience.

They are different.

I don't care how many sub par games a woman played in a sub par league. I'd rather hear from a elite professional who has experience in the game they are discussing.

So just to be clear, you would rather listen to Michael Owen talk about a soccer game than literally any woman in the world?

sbsquarepants

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

She's also black or mixed race... so she probably ticks more than one box in their quota checklist. (She's a keeper basically;))

I think you are intentionally missing the point.

She works for TV as presenter / commentator. It's an audio visual medium, the skills required are an ability to look presentable and speak well. The lovely Alex knows her shít, she's played quite a bit, she's fairly eloquent and she looks as good as any model i've ever seen - in short she's TV gold.

Jamie Carragher (world class footballer i.m.o) had to get elocution lessons, because weirdly it turns out that winning the champions league doesn't make a thick scouse accent any more understandable. Funny that.

They also dress him up because apparently a nice suit looks better than muddy shorts and a jersey.

I don't know Greta, it's almost starting to look as if it's a different job than being a professional footballer.

In fairness to Jamie - he does a great job i think, better than Alex in fact, but appealing to a different demographic, and i'd also be fairly sure that is reflected in their respective wages.

Ironicname

StupidLikeAFox wrote:

So just to be clear, you would rather listen to Michael Owen talk about a soccer game than literally any woman in the world?

I have never said that. I would rather have someone who is entertaining and has experience. I'm not advocating for **** male pundits either.

HowardBeale

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

For me it ruins the pundit side of things, I get horse racing as the jockeys are both genders, but why other sports ? It’s incomparable

The female commentator in the Fury Wilder 2 fight was shocking truly shocking.

Wilder was on his last legs and all she kept saying was he's coming back with a big right.

What?.

The man could barely stand when the towel was thrown in.

It's all due to political correctness and that jazz.

I don't mind a female commentator. So long as she knows what she's talking about.

If it was a male commentator in that boxing match who was as clueless he'd be fleeced by the media.

sbsquarepants

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

So just to be clear, you would rather listen to Michael Owen talk about a soccer game than literally any woman in the world?

Michael Owen is a perfect example - amazing as a player, less than useless as a pundit. Punditry is not football. It's discussing football.

An unintelligible gobshíte can make a great footballer (Wayne Rooney for example) To be a pundit requires an entirely different set of skills and there is no reason whatsoever why a woman wouldn't be able do it at least as well as a man - it clearly depends on the woman and the man.

razorblunt

TheDavester wrote: »

Anyone notice that Eni Aluko was taken off sky sports fairly quickly after that horrendous attempt at punditry a few weeks back ....she was covering the midday match during the Jeff Stelling soccer saturday show (usually its a either scouse woman - apologies cant remember her name with short blonde hair or Tony Cottee usually do it) and she couldn't make a coherent sentence, and after that Clinton Morrison took over on that spot over the last few weeks...Alex Scott is an average pundit (the female jermaine jenas) and over used but it has calmed down from last season where she was on sky/bbc on nearly every time a match was on

BT last season had a few good female pundits on the Europa league evenings while watching Chelsea - the Chelsea womens manager Hayes and they had an (ex) Arsenal player as well who were pretty decent

Agreed on the one who tries to commentate on Soccer Republic as if the game is presently going on, wtf is that

Some are good and others are meh

There's been a few examples of women pundits flailing on that Soccer Saturday format but then again so have Kris Boyd and Paul Merson is constantly talking shíte on it.

But I agree with you on Aluko, she seemed to get ahead on the visibility, her agent has done wonders for her, she was on BBC for the World Cup alongside Scott and Scott blew her out of the water. Aluko had a pre prepped spiel and fact but then once someone else elaborated on it she was like a deer in the headlights.

There's chat that Jenas is going to get the MOTD presenter gig, he's awful, but that's beside the point. i wouldn't be surprised if Scott got promoted to presenter on a show, her profile is rising and she's signed with Satchi so they'll push hard for her.

Omackeral

TheDavester wrote: »

Agreed on the one who tries to commentate on Soccer Republic as if the game is presently going on, wtf is that

Siobhan Madigan. And yes, that’s absolutely woeful. It’s easily the worst thing about Soccer Republic. Her voice is nails on a chalkboard as it is (shosh for shot) but that commentating as if she’s watching live is the pits.

shootermacg

Ironicname wrote: »

That's on you then.

You are saying that you don't understand how a woman's experience isn't the same as a man's experience.

They are different.

I don't care how many sub par games a woman played in a sub par league. I'd rather hear from a elite professional who has experience in the game they are discussing.

So would you think Katie Taylor's opinion on boxing wouldn't be valid? I'd love to see you go just one round with her.

Omackeral

shootermacg wrote: »

So would you think Katie Taylor's opinion on boxing wouldn't be valid? I'd love to see you go just one round with her.

I’d rather go a round with Katie than listen to her commentate.

Ironicname

shootermacg wrote:

So would you think Katie Taylor's opinion on boxing wouldn't be valid? I'd love to see you go just one round with her.

I'd love to see her go one round with an elite male boxer.

Her opinion on women's boxing is exceptionally valid.

Deebles McBeebles

andekwarhola wrote: »

By rough around the edges, you mean managing to get fired for sexually harassing women?

Gray was fired for making sexist comments, very different to sexually harassing women. That's not to downplay what he said but its a lot lower on the disgusting behaviour scale.

Granadino

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

So just to be clear, you would rather listen to Michael Owen talk about a soccer game than literally any woman in the world?

The dullest person I've seen on tv...

Assetbacked

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

The people hiring Alex Scott care about being PC. (or someone is making sure that they appear like they do!)

Gray and Keyes are arseholes. Linking their demise to the hiring of Alex Scott as some sort of PC decision is just wrong. Most fans prefer to see Alex Scott over Gray and Keyes in the studio, weighing up the positives and negatives, it's not a PC thing.

ButtersSuki

Granadino wrote: »

The dullest person I've seen on tv...

Gary Mabbutt is worse.

But Alan Quinlan doing sportsnews on Newstalk is so bad it's good (from a comedic perspective).

keano_afc

Purely depends on the pundit. I like Alex Scott, but Sue Smith is absolutely painful. Definite tokenism in her case.

sbsquarepants

Ironicname wrote: »

I'd love to see her go one round with an elite male boxer.

Her opinion on women's boxing is exceptionally valid.

Why the hell would she go a round with an elite male? That's just idiotic.

But why do you think she couldn't wrap her head around the intricacies of mens boxing enough to discuss it?

Omackeral wrote: »

I’d rather go a round with Katie than listen to her commentate.

So would i - but that's proving the point that competing is just not the same as punditry.
Katie is a top level competitor - but that her voice is more painful than her punches!

ThewhiteJesus

keano_afc wrote: »

Purely depends on the pundit. I like Alex Scott, but Sue Smith is absolutely painful. Definite tokenism in her case.

100% had she a normal haircut aswell she'd have zero chance

ohnonotgmail

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Why the hell would she go a round with an elite male? That's just idiotic.

But why do you think she couldn't wrap her head around the intricacies of mens boxing enough to discuss it?

Well, as the OP and others have said at great length, because the genders are not mixed and the men fight at a higher level, a woman is simple not capable of understanding what is going on in a mens boxing match. I really thought that was clear by now.

sbsquarepants

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

a woman is simple not capable of understanding what is going on in a mens boxing match. I really thought that was clear by now.

Not in any way clear to me i'm afraid.

Some women would not be capable of understanding it perhaps. A lot more wouldn't be capable of discussing it coherently even if they did understand it. Just like a lot of men.

There is a huge difference in talking about something and actually doing it at an elite level - that's what really should be clear!

ohnonotgmail

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Not in any way clear to me i'm afraid.

Some women would not be capable of understanding it perhaps. A lot more wouldn't be capable of discussing it coherently even if they did understand it. Just like a lot of men.

There is a huge difference in talking about something and actually doing it at an elite level - that's what really should be clear!

apologies. this place really needs a sarcasm tag.

sbsquarepants

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

apologies. this place really needs a sarcasm tag.

Sorry, my bad.

It's just so hard to tell sometimes!

Ironicname

ohnonotgmail wrote:

apologies. this place really needs a sarcasm tag.

Funnily enough, it was the first time I agreed with you.

ohnonotgmail

Ironicname wrote: »

Funnily enough, it was the first time I agreed with you.

you'd have to be really special to think that katie wouldn't understand what is going on in a mens boxing match.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Michael Owen is a perfect example - amazing as a player, less than useless as a pundit. Punditry is not football. It's discussing football.

An unintelligible gobshíte can make a great footballer (Wayne Rooney for example) To be a pundit requires an entirely different set of skills and there is no reason whatsoever why a woman wouldn't be able do it at least as well as a man - it clearly depends on the woman and the man.

Punditry is football - it's a big part of it. They literally wouldn't have any reason for being there, in that studio, unless there was a match to talk about.

So yes, punditry is a very big part of the sport.

Michael Owen is certainly boring, but he does understand the game. As does Wayne Rooney... but not every player will make a top pundit. There are plenty of one's that are very capable - Alex Scott is not actually required, based on some imaginary lack of male options. She is there because they want a female on the panel... not because she's a great pundit. Simple as that.

It doesn't really matter if a woman can do as good a job... this is men's professional football. Men should be given priority for these roles. It is sexism against men, to show favouritism towards women in the men's game!

And why is nobody concerned that someone like Alex Scott is choosing the men's game over the women's game? Why not throw all her energy into the women's game... and help that sport to get to a higher level of awareness? That's the game that actually gave her the platform to even be on TV in the first place, not the men's game!

There is nothing sexist about wanting to listen to a TV panel made up entirely of men, during a men's football match... it's actually a completely rational and reasonable thing to look for in gender-specific game!

Ironicname

ohnonotgmail wrote:

you'd have to be really special to think that katie wouldn't understand what is going on in a mens boxing match.

She would understand the technical aspect absolutely. But men's boxing, like men's football, is a much different animal to women's boxing.

Greyfox

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

It doesn't really matter if a woman can do as good a job... this is men's professional football. Men should be given priority for these roles...

There is nothing sexist about wanting to listen to a TV panel made up entirely of men, during a men's football match...

Yes male players should be given priority but if a woman happens to know what their talking about they should be allowed to do the job without people saying they don't want to listen to a woman. Saying a women shouldnt be a pundit on men's football is very clearly a sexist statement.