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Dog bite today
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We don't muzzle our Doberman either as there's no actual need.Actually my vet doesnt make him wear the muzzle and he has never had to wear it while there. I trained him with it incase we ever need to see a different vet or groomer.
I live in the country and walk him responsibly... he is on a short lead and walks with me. I find it interesting that he has been to puppy classes and then obedience classes with the DSPCA and they never mentioned that I should have a muzzle on him and he was allowed to take part in the classes without a muzzle.
We have also been to an open day on the DSPCA and the Pet Expo and it was never mentioned. I assumed that a dog had to be of a certain age to need the muzzle but cannot find any official information about it online.
I am not going to change the way I walk my dog or muzzle him .. there is very little chance of him being reported and if he was then I would change where I walk him.
All the other small dogs we meet on walks could do with one mind, nearly had the ankles taken off me several times by some snarling, barking, little untrained ****. We have the muzzle with us all the time, but never need to use it, she pays zero attention to anyone else, or the little yappy ****s. We've spent a fortune, and continue to spend more, in obedience classes. They should be mandatory for all dogs, regardless of size.
I actually think it makes the dog look more intimidating with a muzzle, like you have no control so need to put a muzzle on.
Vet also loves to see her and never asks for a muzzle.0 -
Lady Haywire wrote: »I'm butting in on a thread *mods move at will) but thought this appropriate to share.
https://twitter.com/Jamiepenrith2/status/1230555144460341248
Jeepers Lady Haywire... I'm not sure are you aware of the crowd represented in that video you linked, but suffice to say, I would be strenuously advising owners not to use trainers who routinely use shock collars as their first port of call... this particular crowd are trolling positive, ethical dog trainers up and down this country right now, resolutely ignoring and refuting that dogs can be trained positively. They're setting dog training in Ireland back by decades, but refusing to engage in dialogue or to try to understand learning theory, and not a single qualification to their namein the field.
For what it's worth, I have trained many dogs not to chase livestock, without using any techniques that involve hurting/scaring/shocking/teasing a dog. Despite what the macho men with the remote controller in their hands say.0 -
Actually my vet doesnt make him wear the muzzle and he has never had to wear it while there. I trained him with it incase we ever need to see a different vet or groomer.
I live in the country and walk him responsibly... he is on a short lead and walks with me. I find it interesting that he has been to puppy classes and then obedience classes with the DSPCA and they never mentioned that I should have a muzzle on him and he was allowed to take part in the classes without a muzzle.
We have also been to an open day on the DSPCA and the Pet Expo and it was never mentioned. I assumed that a dog had to be of a certain age to need the muzzle but cannot find any official information about it online.
I am not going to change the way I walk my dog or muzzle him .. there is very little chance of him being reported and if he was then I would change where I walk him.
So you're using other peoples non confrontation as justification for ignoring the law?
Ya cause that's how it works0 -
So you're using other peoples non confrontation as justification for ignoring the law?
Ya cause that's how it works
I dont really want to hijack this thread and take it off topic too much.
I would trust that the DSPCA have a great understanding of dogs and know that a trained dog is better then an untrained muzzled dog. Untrained dogs can get out without their muzzle on and be a huge hazard. People who get restricted breed dogs and dont bother to train or socialize them are a huge problem.
I actually think that all dogs should have to complete basic training and socialization... and that if a dog fails then maybe look at having to be muzzled or retrained.0 -
I dont really want to hijack this thread and take it off topic too much.
I would trust that the DSPCA have a great understanding of dogs and know that a trained dog is better then an untrained muzzled dog. Untrained dogs can get out without their muzzle on and be a huge hazard. People who get restricted breed dogs and dont bother to train or socialize them are a huge problem.
I actually think that all dogs should have to complete basic training and socialization... and that if a dog fails then maybe look at having to be muzzled or retrained.
You want to force dog owners to do more when they wont do what is already required?0 -
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I just think it's very strange in a thread about a dog bite from a big breed dog, that should be muzzled, we have other owners of big breed dogs stating that they will never muzzle their dog.
Even the best trained dog can lapse. It only takes one time.
The legislation is there for a reason.0 -
Princess Calla wrote: »I just think it's very strange in a thread about a dog bite from a big breed dog, that should be muzzled, we have other owners of big breed dogs stating that they will never muzzle their dog.
Even the best trained dog can lapse. It only takes one time.
The legislation is there for a reason.
I thought this thread was about feckless and irresponsible dog owners, who let their dog roam to the detriment of the OP.
I’d love if my dog was muzzle trained but it’s the one thing she struggles with and she’s an old girl. I don’t let her off lead, she is kept in a proper harness with a short lead at all times. I see plenty of big breed dogs unmuzzled and off lead and I do disagree with that. As much as I love my dog, I don’t take chances and I avoid other dogs when we are out (because they’re sometimes off lead or “just being friendly” while invading her space).
We’ve tried 2 types of muzzle and she had 4 months of muzzle training to no avail. So if anyone has a solution, I’d love to hear it.0 -
Dog needs putting down and the owners restricted from dog ownership. Clearly not mature or responsible enough to own a dog.
How do you know that the dog didn't get out of an enclosed garden by accident, for example?
I wasn't there, didn't see it happen, so don't have a clue what happened, and in fairness, your in the same boat :-)Thanks,
G.
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The thing is I've seen this Doberman before with its owner. And he's forever smacking it on the nose. But this was the first time I seen it off the lead and sure enough I got bitten. Didn't sleep much last night due to pain and anger. And also thinking of the what ifs. That what makes me even more annoyed. You go out on a Thursday morning with a buggy to get your child asleep for a little nap, last thing you expect is a dog attack
Hi,
Firstly, I'm sorry to have read about what happened to you.
You mention that you've seen the dog and owner before. Mind me asking, has the owner tried to make contact with you, either directly or via the Gardai?
I would expect any reasonable dog owner to be doing their very best to try to apologise, cover medical bills and see what else they could offer to try to help improve the situation.
Sometimes, there are alternative solutions to insisting that the dog be put down, particularly if it's a first time that the dog has bitten someone. Vets will often suggest neutering a male dog for example, as part of a strategy to try to reduce the testosterone levels. Training courses with genuine, expedienced dog trainers etc are also an option and part of a solution, sometimes.Thanks,
G.
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Owners are still responsible. The control of dogs act covers this
Hi,
I'm not disputing that, but there's a difference between a regular offender, someone doing something intentionally, and a once of accident etc.
My view is that you need to understand the situation, get the facts right etc, before passing sentence. Some here seem to think it's fine to just keep shouting "off with their heads" or similar, and haven't got the facts.
Bad information, or lack of all relevant information, leads to bad decisions. Good information leads to good decisions. :-)Thanks,
G.
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You want to force dog owners to do more when they wont do what is already required?
I think Arya is saying that what's needed is something different, not something more.
Muzzling a dog every single time it goes out of the garden is probably as hard and certainly a lot more unpleasant than going to dog training classes once a week - we did it for two years and it was certainly enough to ensure that she wasn't going to be a danger to random people or dogs walking past her. I presume some dogs need more, but again, if it were that or a muzzle I'd be all for training. It has all sorts of advantages, IME. And I'd hate to have to muzzle her (though if it were legally required I'd do it).0 -
Hi,
I'm not disputing that, but there's a difference between a regular offender, someone doing something intentionally, and a once of accident etc.
My view is that you need to understand the situation, get the facts right etc, before passing sentence. Some here seem to think it's fine to just keep shouting "off with their heads" or similar, and haven't got the facts.
Bad information, or lack of all relevant information, leads to bad decisions. Good information leads to good decisions. :-)
Intention only matters if the law says it matters
For example https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058051462/9/#post1125155520 -
I think Arya is saying that what's needed is something different, not something more.
Muzzling a dog every single time it goes out of the garden is probably as hard and certainly a lot more unpleasant than going to dog training classes once a week - we did it for two years and it was certainly enough to ensure that she wasn't going to be a danger to random people or dogs walking past her. I presume some dogs need more, but again, if it were that or a muzzle I'd be all for training. It has all sorts of advantages, IME. And I'd hate to have to muzzle her (though if it were legally required I'd do it).
There was a consultation about reviewing the control of dogs act last year,hopefully the next government will look at the submissions0 -
Everyone complains about the cost of insurance ... yet lots of assholes here saying u should sue straight away with little facts !!! What if your dog did the same... totally unusual for it... but it did.... would u like it if someone sued u or made u put it down??? Seriously.... look for them to cover the cost of the doctor maybe but don’t go cause the dog to be put down ... treats others as u would like them to treat u and so onAnd what if this dog was normally 100%... and this was totally unusual for it ... seriously ... is a little bite worth causing a dog to be put down and suffering for the family it lives with
How is this a discussion. I have two dogs, I love them immensely but if they bit someone, they would have to be put down. They are well trained and obedient but if they bit someone, that's it. All the talk about suing, f*ck that sh1t. The dog needs to be euthanised, and the owners names on a register to keep an eye on. That is the end of discussion.0 -
How is this a discussion. I have two dogs, I love them immensely but if they bit someone, they would have to be put down. They are well trained and obedient but if they bit someone, that's it. All the talk about suing, f*ck that sh1t. The dog needs to be euthanised, and the owners names on a register to keep an eye on. That is the end of discussion.
I don't think that either of my dogs would ever bite anybody. But if they did And it was a bite rather then vicious attack, I would not be putting either down.
The pup is so friendly and loves everyone. My husky is much more reserved and while friendly she hates people touching her head So I don't allow strangers to pet her. they are both always on lead and our garden is secure.
So if they did bite someone I would be looking into how it happened but wouldn't kill them for a terrible unforeseen mistake of mine.0 -
I don't think that either of my dogs would ever bite anybody. But if they did And it was a bite rather then vicious attack, I would not be putting either down.
The pup is so friendly and loves everyone. My husky is much more reserved and while friendly she hates people touching her head So I don't allow strangers to pet her. they are both always on lead and our garden is secure.
So if they did bite someone I would be looking into how it happened but wouldn't kill them for a terrible unforeseen mistake of mine.
And if they bit someone again, what would you do?0 -
Hi,
I'm not disputing that, but there's a difference between a regular offender, someone doing something intentionally, and a once of accident etc.
My view is that you need to understand the situation, get the facts right etc, before passing sentence. Some here seem to think it's fine to just keep shouting "off with their heads" or similar, and haven't got the facts.
Bad information, or lack of all relevant information, leads to bad decisions. Good information leads to good decisions. :-)
Wondering respectfully if you read the entire thread or just the start? There were abundant facts and information about the dog and the owners lack of care. And that was a serious bite not just a nip.0 -
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I don't think that either of my dogs would ever bite anybody. But if they did And it was a bite rather then vicious attack, I would not be putting either down.
The pup is so friendly and loves everyone. My husky is much more reserved and while friendly she hates people touching her head So I don't allow strangers to pet her. they are both always on lead and our garden is secure.
So if they did bite someone I would be looking into how it happened but wouldn't kill them for a terrible unforeseen mistake of mine.
You might not be given the choice. You are adamant re not obeying the law re muzzling. Any decision would thus not be yours. The law is there to protect the dog against any form of negligence also.0 -
I don't think that either of my dogs would ever bite anybody. But if they did And it was a bite rather then vicious attack, I would not be putting either down.
The pup is so friendly and loves everyone. My husky is much more reserved and while friendly she hates people touching her head So I don't allow strangers to pet her. they are both always on lead and our garden is secure.
So if they did bite someone I would be looking into how it happened but wouldn't kill them for a terrible unforeseen mistake of mine.
I would demand that they be put down if it was me that they attacked, this is the usual crap I hear from dog owners "oh my dog would never bite" dogs are animals simple as and anyone that thinks they have full control over them is delusional. I have seen first hand the devastating aftermath of a friendly wouldn't bite you dog on a flock of sheep they are instinctual animals with a certain amount of loyalty to the people that fed them but an animal nonetheless.0 -
Where is the line then? When does it become a vicious attack. Pretty sure mine wouldn't either but if they bit anyone in an unproviked attack, like in the OP, they would have to be put down, there are no ifs or buts.I don't think that either of my dogs would ever bite anybody. But if they did And it was a bite rather then vicious attack, I would not be putting either down.
If the dog bit someone, bar the dog defending itself or you, the mistake may or may not be yours but it is a response it is willing to go too. I can't believe this is a discussion. I love my dogs but if either of them bit someone, it means they cannot be trusted. That is the contract we have entered into by becoming dog owners. It may be my fault, maybe I did not train them well enough but bar those two situations, there are no excuses.The pup is so friendly and loves everyone. My husky is much more reserved and while friendly she hates people touching her head So I don't allow strangers to pet her. they are both always on lead and our garden is secure.
So if they did bite someone I would be looking into how it happened but wouldn't kill them for a terrible unforeseen mistake of mine.0 -
Where is the line then? When does it become a vicious attack. Pretty sure mine wouldn't either but if they bit anyone in an unproviked attack, like in the OP, they would have to be put down, there are no ifs or buts.
If the dog bit someone, bar the dog defending itself or you, the mistake may or may not be yours but it is a response it is willing to go too. I can't believe this is a discussion. I love my dogs but if either of them bit someone, it means they cannot be trusted. That is the contract we have entered into by becoming dog owners. It may be my fault, maybe I did not train them well enough but bar those two situations, there are no excuses.
There's an important part of training that often ends with the dog in trouble. If an owner has the dog trained to shut down their warning signals such as a bark, or a growl or even bared teeth, and when they are commanded not to exhibit their warning signals - they can go straight to bite if they are in a situation that they find too much for them. I see people all the time telling their dog to "stop" or using their name in a warning tone if the dog so much as grumbles when another dog approaches them and the dog will shut down their defences. Keep that up and they will suppress all their warning signals and what are they left with? Nothing but their bite. And then they get PTS for it.
I think a lot of owners don't really notice what they're doing when they're telling their dog to stop growling, or barking. They tend to forget that if they feel threatened enough they could resort to their only defence.0 -
I wouldn't just put a dog down either.
Its very, very rare for a dog to just randomly attack, unprovoked, unless there is an underlying condition.
I have owned a dog that suffered from rage syndrome, he would attack unprovoked. He was put to sleep, so its not like I'd never do it. (The person he attacked was me).
But if I owned a dog that I knew doesn't normally show signs of aggression, I'd be looking for what provoked them before jumping to ending their life, and I'd fight any demand to put them to sleep legally.
So many stories I've heard of dogs biting "unprovoked" and when you dig a little deeper you find there was something the human has done that triggered them.0 -
The thread reminds me of an incident when I was renting in West cork. There was, God rest him now, an old man up the lane who took an aversion. He had been using the empty house! When the gate went up?
Incident after incident. There was a long defunct r o w at the back and he once set fire to it.. nearly destroyed the power lines,
He would climb the gate or fence, then claim he had hurt himself and threaten to sue.
One day I was inside and the dogs were out in the enclosed yard. I heard barking.... and he was there. He walloped Sandy with his stick and she ran to me howling; Will never forget that sound. And never a sign of aggression from her.
Then he told my landlord my dog had bitten his ankle and he had had to go to the doctor and get an antitetanus and he would get the dog put down. NB he was wearing thick wellies and Sandy had broken teeth
I went through hell. Then he started in on something else and I called the police; made a great show of Sandy being a pure pet. Which she was.
The Gardai knew he was being aggressive and yet as he was over 80?
We have to be on our guard. And I feel for anyone in any situation where a dog is in danger0 -
I don't think that either of my dogs would ever bite anybody. But if they did And it was a bite rather then vicious attack, I would not be putting either down.
The pup is so friendly and loves everyone. My husky is much more reserved and while friendly she hates people touching her head So I don't allow strangers to pet her. they are both always on lead and our garden is secure.
So if they did bite someone I would be looking into how it happened but wouldn't kill them for a terrible unforeseen mistake of mine.
It might not be your choice, though.
A friends Rottie was on lead but unmuzzled when a stranger tried to approach her, and she got spooked.
She nipped the stranger in the process, the injuries weren’t too serious but my friend offered unreserved apologies and offered to cover medical expenses etc.
She was always the most gentle, sweetest little creature, and the bite was completely out of character for her.
The man still reported the incident to the Gardaí, who got in touch with the warden, who ordered the dog be seized and PTS.
There was an option to contest the decision but it would have involved an expensive court case, and they were legally advised they were very very unlikely to win anyway as the dog was not under their control & wasn’t muzzled when the incident happened.
So really by allowing your dog to be out in public without a muzzle you are putting him in an unfair, disadvantaged situation whereby if he reacts to anything, whether it’s justified or not, he might lose his life.
I wouldn’t like to muzzle my dog but I would do so rather than run the risk that an outside influence would cause an outburst and result in them being PTS.
It just wouldn’t be worth the risk for me.0 -
Wondering respectfully if you read the entire thread or just the start? There were abundant facts and information about the dog and the owners lack of care. And that was a serious bite not just a nip.
Hi,
Yes, I did read the entire thread.
All we know is that unfortunitely, someone has been injured by a dog having bitten them, without provocation.
People talking about taking legal action, having the dog out down etc. know no more than you and I. I was interested in finding out what the dog owners have done, or tried to do, for example - as I think that's an important factor to consider, when the injured party is trying to decide the next moveThanks,
G.
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Hi, just wondering if I'm doing the right thing here and or should I take it further. I was off work today and walking my Yorkshire terrier with my 20 month old baby in his buggy as I came around a corner in an estate close to mine a Doberman was coming towards me. Off the lead and no muzzle. I knew it was going to attack my dog so I picked my dog up as fast as I could and turned my back also protecting my child too. I then felt unbelievable pain as the Doberman bit me in my upper leg. The owner came running around and told it to stop. And then her husband too. They said they where sorry and it never happened before. I was crouched down in agony but I just wanted to get away from them and make sure my dog and my child where ok. I just said to them to leave me alone. I went around the corner and I checked the bite. I was cut open and already had bruising so I went to the doctor who gave me a tetnis shot and also antibiotics and pain killers. I then went to the guards and told them of the incident. There were no other witness's to this so I know it could be their word against mine. I just can't believe they had a dog like that not muzzled or on a lead. What should I do next or if I should do anymore? I have their address and the guard said he would be paying them a visit tonight or in the morning.
I feel sorry for the OP who was clearly nervous with his dog out walking and who was frightened on behalf of his child, and was bitten. I hope your leg begins to improve soon OP.
Day after day I see people with small dogs whipping them up into their arms as other dogs approach and cannot understand this - it excites the other dog who still wants to greet them and often triggers a fear or aggression in the dog in the arms - which the other dog can sense. From reading your post I would say something in your dog or the action of scooping it up and turning around triggered the other dog. Notwithstanding this it should have been muzzled as it is a restricted breed. There are no winners here as you are injured and frightend, the owners may lose their beloved pet and the dog will be taken and killed. Surely if a bit of human kindness and compassion can prevail there could be an agreement made - medical bills paid for you and a once off always muzzled and never let out off lead on the estate loose, which you can revisit with the police if you ever see the dog out loose or unmuzzled again? I cannot imagine losing a pet in such circumstances and can only imagine how devestating it must be for the owners. Can there not be a bit of compassion and forgiving - there for the grace of God goes your little dog or anyones pet - someone claiming it snapped aggressively at them or their child or always snarls at them when you walk by -you dont want to make it a target by their friends or family. A little grace and compassion goes a long way - not taking away from your real fear or fright or medical needs. Can you not see a way to compromise and not take their pet from
them but keep yourself and others safe and have tour medical needs taKen care of?0 -
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JustAThought wrote: »I feel sorry for the OP who was clearly nervous with his dog out walking and who was frightened on behalf of his child, and was bitten. I hope your leg begins to improve soon OP.
Day after day I see people with small dogs whipping them up into their arms as other dogs approach and cannot understand this - it excites the other dog who still wants to greet them and often triggers a fear or aggression in the dog in the arms - which the other dog can sense. From reading your post I would say something in your dog or the action of scooping it up and turning around triggered the other dog. Notwithstanding this it should have been muzzled as it is a restricted breed. There are no winners here as you are injured and frightend, the owners may lose their beloved pet and the dog will be taken and killed. Surely if a bit of human kindness and compassion can prevail there could be an agreement made - medical bills paid for you and a once off always muzzled and never let out off lead on the estate loose, which you can revisit with the police if you ever see the dog out loose or unmuzzled again? I cannot imagine losing a pet in such circumstances and can only imagine how devestating it must be for the owners. Can there not be a bit of compassion and forgiving - there for the grace of God goes your little dog or anyones pet - someone claiming it snapped aggressively at them or their child or always snarls at them when you walk by -you dont want to make it a target by their friends or family. A little grace and compassion goes a long way - not taking away from your real fear or fright or medical needs. Can you not see a way to compromise and not take their pet from
them but keep yourself and others safe and have tour medical needs taKen care of?
If you read the OPs posts? He did not want the dog put down. Period.And as another poster said, this was rightly reported to the police/dog warden so it is they who would make any such decision.
ALso this was far from the first time the dog had been unmuzzled and offlead . It is the owners at fault here not the OP who got a very nasty bite defending his toddler from potential attack .
The reason for compulsory muzzling is clear. And for keeping any dog on the lead as the OPS was.
So maybe address the owners? Anyone will defend their child and their dog, when there is a dog loose and headed for them.
Hoping the OP is OK? HE has not posted in a while.0
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