“Your father works for my father”

Deleted User wrote: »

Northside of Cork City is still a barren wasteland to rugby, unfortunately.

yes theres only old Christian's but huge numbers playing for many clubs on south side of city. Far from an issue.

piplip87 wrote: »

In many places rugby is still seen as a toffee nose sport. I remember wanting to play at a young age but not been able to as the price to pay back then was extortionate. This was a deliberate act to keep the game to the higher class people around the area.

Now the game is more open around these parts, it will be 10-15 years before the benefits are seen on the national stage though.

The fact that the majority of the Irish team went to a handful of fee paying schools cannot be denied.

many who have played on Irish team did go to fer paying schools in some areas but numbers from other areas are improving and quite often players are regarded as schools players when they only spent one or two years in one of the fer paying schools.
It's only people with no real experience of rugby ie being involved in the sport who see it as a "toffee nose sport"
Of course it will be 10 or so years for change to really show. Even now compared to what it was in early 2000s it's much better.

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Definitely the case and I witnessed it first hand in my younger years. You were shut out if you weren’t of a certain status. It’s easing a bit now but it’s definitely as bad as it ever was in Leinster and Northern Ireland, the latter where you have to be a certain religion and allegiance even regardless of money (though wine you’ve two young British boys in Ulster, money and status wins too).

dont know about that and far from my experience of the case. It's nowhere near as bad as it ever was in leinster or Ulster. Ulster refs have brought their primary event of the year the refs dinner to republic of Ireland which would have never have happened a few years ago.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

For some reason it seems the success of the rugby team has caused a massive amount of upset for some of the other sports in Ireland

I don’t seem to remember the same happening when the soccer team was doing good. I didn’t see rugby fans posting with glee at every failure of the team

because you only have to look at some of the media coverage of leinster/ireland/schools rugby at times and you can see why some feel annoyed by the sport...
They just feel when so many come from a background they will never be part of the team doesnt represent them which isnt the case with soccer.

At the moment rugby has probably branched out to more areas of the country than ever before but instead of congratulating the irfu it seems people are transfixed on a couple of schools in Dublin.

If it was 20 years ago would the likes of Furlong, SOB etc and all those other players had the chances to play rugby? Not a chance

they'd have a chance to play rugby all right but not to a high level most likely. Turning pro has been the best thing that could ever have happened to Irish rugby as meant irfu really had to get finger out and properly develop the sport more.

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Nonsense. Clubs all over the country? You make it sound like there is one on every corner. The reality is they are few and far between. How many are in Darndale, coolock, Walkinstown, Bluebell,

This attempt to try and completely ignore what is blatantly obvious is just an attempt to dig your heels in rather than acknowledge what is right in front of your face.

yes clubs all over. Nobody is saying there is anywhere near as many clubs as the other largest sports but number of clubs and number of teams especially underage is far far higher than it has ever been before.

I’m willing to accept that the label “west Brit” is out dated but how can you accept that none of what other people are saying in that Rugby still has a certain class snobbery which still exists albeit to a lesser extent is true. Rather than an acknowledgement that it exists but you and others refuse to accept any merit in the accusations and try and make out as if it’s played on the same level as GAA.

it only exists for people who want it to who refuse to accept or acknowledge any of the work the irfu and clubs have done to expand the sports base.

Deleted User wrote: »

I think we are missing out on serious naturally talented players, who are not getting key coaching at teen level.

Branches do need to be more active, you see the difference in provincial schools vs club teams

we are and branches are doing a lot but it takes a lot of time. What difference between provincial teams? Munster clubs team will be as good as schools side most years these days. Lwinster and Ulster wont but what more do you want provinces to do that they already are not?

Shefwedfan wrote: »

All sports miss out on talented players, in Ireland across the board we do not have an exceptional system to bring young people into senior level. GAA, Soccer, hurling, baseball, hockey, rugby etc.....because of lack of funding and then people blowing the little bit of funding given, so it is normally just parent willing to give up time

Yes rugby has a tiny few schools that have invested in fully paid professional coach’s and instead of people applauding them and seeing how it can be done in other school they point the finger and accuse.....

it cant be done in other schools because they wont have the money to support coaches etc that this small number of schools can. All sports everywhere do miss out on people but rugby doesnt help itself with how its structured at underage. We even miss out on so many from within the schools system because of its structures and lack of any links to clubs so guys in schools who might show up at 18 but could go up grades and star as an adult but fall out of the sport all too easily as they start 3rd level/start working.

sydthebeat wrote: »

100% agreed, but nothing to do with my point.

I'm just challenging the mindset that seems to be aghast that the majority of our Irish internationals attended a fee paying school, where they got the best coaching available to them at that age.

that should not be surprising or something that is in need of change.... Obviously other pathways should be made available, and some are...

Remember that it's not so long again that connacht held open days to get into their academy....

did connacht not just have open days for age grade sides as in their u19 interpro side. It wasnt opendays for the academy.
It is very much an issue that so many pros do come from the fee paying schools because you can be a talented rugby player but because your parents cant afford to spend 4/5/6k a year on fres to attend a certain school then you are less likely to play pro. Look at all the clubs in Dublin and how few field underage sides from 13-18?

Deleted User wrote: »

You misunderstand me, I am not saying that the schools are in the wrong here.
I am saying that the branches are not doing enough

what specifically would you want provinces to do?

Right now I am coaching U7s. People from good spread, from complete newbies to kids of former internationals. They are all the same and see it up the age groups.
Come being 12 years of age the differences in coaching will begin.
I do not know how they will fix this but the branches are the one's with the responsibility.

they are doing plenty to help those not in rugby schools and competitions have improved. Best club players training and playing more against the best sides so players are getting more chances to progress.

The branches are abdicating their training responsibilities to underfunded clubs. But that is a topic which has nothing to do with snobbery, rather a business model, and not applicable to this thread. Apologies

abdication of responsibilities is bit harsh.

Neil3030 wrote: »

Is there any reason the Bandon model can't be copied? Presume it's been looked at?

because not all areas have a fee paying school nearby and someone who has connections to a pro coach who happened to be interested in a career break from coaching pro rugby for a short while

sydthebeat wrote: »

I know where you are coming from on this.
I've coached every age from 7s to 15s.
I'm with our clubs 11s this season, a leinster affiliated club.
At minis levels the ethos of the coaching is basically the same, "the leinster way".

We always loose some players in that change from 6th class to 1st year, where some go to rugby schools. We also lose some players at the 16 age grade where they go to rugby schools for the senior cycle. We've had players given scholarships at that age to go to the schools. Frustrating from a club point of view, but great for the players and more power to them.

Leinster have a conveyor belt of very well formed youth players coming from the schools straight intimate their academy. Some players like Andrew Porter are coming straight from school ready for Pro14 competition, which is crazy.
And leinster are swamped each season with wannabe academy prospects.

So from that point of view you'd have to question why Leinster would want, or need, to develop a club pathway to the academy. Would the economics of it make sense? The actually do have this pathway, but few players progress to full leinster professionals through it... One a year would be probably over stating it.

Leinster do good work through the areas, through competitions like the Shane horgan Cup etc. This is a good way for club players to get recognition at 16s level to be approached by schools or vise versa.
But the main pathway is still through the schools, as clubs cannot compete with the man hours involved, the professionalism of the rugby faculty within the schools and usually with the facilities as well

yes but think that's a real silly viewpoint re thinking leinster wouldnt want for any reason not to develop clubs more. Main pathway always will be schools. That will never change but clubs will keep improving and so many clubs from around the province going senior will help a lot as well as more senior clubs should see better coaching standards at adult level that ideally can filter down to age grade sides within properly managed clubs.

dregin wrote: »

Guinness are also close to both. What club isn't members only? Fairly sure insurance stipulates that all players must be members (and so paying insurance premiums (

you can have closed clubs though where you have to be working somewhere to join the club. Like some of the old boy clubs ie Mary's, wesley etc. Didnt some of these clubs membership only be available to past pupils of that school...

Deleted User wrote: »

FFS I literally rocked up in 2005 and played 2 seasons, with Guinness.

It was all a dream, Cork_exile. Was Bobby Ewing in the changing room at any point?

Deleted User wrote: »

What can the branches do?
Better coaching opportunities. I've been assessed that one time in Mary's, that's it. Never had more than the one session to get certified.
I know if I wanted to rank up past level 1 I would go do another course but what then?

you continue to coach and ask for development staff to do workshops with you and your team. You work with the youth officer in your club and other coaches in your club and see how you can learn from each other to develop as a coach.

And even that was directed at the adult teams. Coached 3 years and nothing more, from the branch.
Have had nothing from Munster around coaching the kids.

How hard would it be to have a high performance coach doing the rounds of the clubs, specifically focused on the coaching standard of the 10s and up categories?

did you ever contact any of the development officers from Munster rugby about further coaching development sessions? The various development officers already are in that role assisting the coaching of underage and any other sides that want assistance

Oh and Mary's is certainly not a closed shop. Not when I joined in 2007 and not for a long time before that AFAIK

some of those clubs were closed. Havent been for a while but some of them were originally.
There is development officers going round clubs working with coaches on top of going into schools to bring the sport to more people.
Some of the old boy clubs used to be closed is what I said. Didnt say they still were.

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Oh please, everyone referring to Guinness as if it’s the bastion of Irish rugby. Take the marginal case and use it as the broad argument as if rugby was played in every working class school all over Dublin.

Given the alacrity with which you move goalposts, any rugby club in Ireland would welcome you with open arms.

smelly sock wrote: »

There is no doubt Rugby is played by normal people too. Its not as widespread or as inclusive as some would have you believe though.

But at Schools level, provincial level and international level it is indeed elitist to the core. In order to play at that level you nearly all of the time have had to attend a fee paying school. That to me and others here is the definition of elitism.

How many of the current Irish squad, the irish ones only, not the foreign fellas living here for a few uears, have attended the local CBS or post primary? 2 or 3 id say is all.

Normal people? People from affluent backgrounds don’t have an extra leg they too are normal people. It’s this assumption by people that well off people are different that drives this absolute rubbish.