“Your father works for my father”

VayNiice

smelly sock wrote: »

Its ok not to like ruggers you know.

And the fact that the majority if the Irish and Leinster team were privately educated is a legitimate reason for ordinary working class amd middle class people not relating to it.

Of course its OK. But it's incredibly sad how many soccer and GAA fans love to **** on it. Is it not possible to like more than one sport?

I can't relate to 99.99% of NBA basketball players but that didn't stop me from playing my whole life.

sydthebeat

RoversCeltic wrote: »

what percentage of Irish schoolkids go to fee paying schools and what percentage of the failed irish rugby team went to fee paying schools?

Who would it be a shock that the players that get the most hours of the best coaching, through the schools system, go on to be the majority of professional rugby players in the country???

That's not any kind of a seismic point your making... It's quite an obvious basic one actually

stephen_n

paddylonglegs wrote: »

Over €200 for a six nations match ticket is pretty elitist though

https://www.viagogo.ie/Sports-Tickets/Rugby-Union/Guinness-Six-Nations-Tickets/E-3615083Over

How much were the tickets for the all Ireland going for on tout sites last year?

molloyjh

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

The your father works for my father stuff etc is pretty funny wind up material. Seems to get under people's skins something rotten for whatever reason.

I find it amusing myself. The pathetic attempts to categorise an entire sport in a particular way so that they can feel entitled to have a problem with it is hilarious. Its obviously totally okay not to like rugby, but it says a lot about someone who actively looks to crap all over it like some do. It's tragic, but if they kick off about it then they're fair game for a bit of pointing & laughing.

PhlegmyMoses

sydthebeat wrote: »

The powers that be in soccer have been shown to be leeching charlatans that have all but destroyed the sport in this country.

GAA cannot agree on the direction it is going in. Players are crying out for a fixed calendar that they can plan around. It's an amateur sport treated in an amateur way.

Rugby offers a kid who is interested in becoming a professional sports person a route to that goal which GAA cannot, and can offer that route within these shores, that soccer cannot.

There is a lot of jealousy from both of those camps towards rugby.

And what I don't get is why some people can't just enjoy them all. Here is a secret I learnt when I was young. The more sports you enjoy, the more sports you can play. And the more sports you can play, the more sports you can watch all week when you get older and cant play anymore. It's a great philosophy and my book can be bought in all good bookstores, 10/10 would recommend.

molloyjh

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

And what I don't get is why some people can't just enjoy them all. Here is a secret I learnt when I was young. The more sports you enjoy, the more sports you can play. And the more sports you can play, the more sports you can watch all week when you get older and cant play anymore. It's a great philosophy and my book can be bought in all good bookstores, 10/10 would recommend.

Yep, get enjoyment from as many places as possible. And if you dont enjoy something that's fine, you can ignore it and focus on the things you do enjoy.

Tom Mann Centuria

sydthebeat wrote: »

Who would it be a shock that the players that get the most hours of the best coaching, through the schools system, go on to be the majority of professional rugby players in the country???

That's not any kind of a seismic point your making... It's quite an obvious basic one actually

Not very aspirational is it? So if your parents can't afford to send you to private school, your chances of making it as a professional rugby player are greatly diminished?

Fionn1952

I know that when I was growing up in the North, rugby was for Protestants. In my club, I was one of two people from a catholic background at that age group, and there was certainly an over representation of people from privileged backgrounds on that team when compared with the average in the town. There were comments made on occasion, usually typical banter within the team, sometimes more sinister from opposing Ulster teams. Playing Leinster teams at the time, sure even the wealthiest on the team were just, 'boggers from that place'. I was thick enough skinned that it didn't bother me, but I can certainly see how young people could be put off the sport.

While it's been many moons since I was involved with club rugby back home, I do still know a few people involved and I've been told things have changed significantly. There's still definitely a slight leaning towards the wealthy/protestant side of things (mostly due to certain school associations in my home town), but the success of the Irish rugby team, and more recently the positioning of Rory Best really led to a much broader interest across the board there.

Christ, I hear my old school, which was firmly of the GAA, GAA and more GAA variety even has a rugby team now!

I'm not a close enough follower of rugby in the other provinces (would only ever be at a match as an opposing fan for Ulster) to comment on them, even less so with fee paying schools and D4 families.

stephen_n

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Not very aspirational is it? So if your parents can't afford to send you to private school, your chances of making it as a professional rugby player are greatly diminished?

No if you’re parents can afford to send you to a private school, your chances will be increased due to the level of coaching. Same way most of the professional soccer players come from middle class backgrounds, with supportive parents, who help and support their ambitions. Their are kids from all over Leinster being trained coached and prepared for possibly becoming professional players, that will never set foot in a private school. Obviously the kids who train in nearly professional setups will have an advantage. Money creates advantage, that’s true for all society. It is also true for all sports, including GAA and soccer.

molloyjh

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Not very aspirational is it? So if your parents can't afford to send you to private school, your chances of making it as a professional rugby player are greatly diminished?

That's becoming less and less true with time. Guys like SOB and Furlong for example werent from a private school. Others in the Leinster set up at the moment, like Dooely, Frawley, Conor O'Brien or Adam Byrne, similarly arent from a private school background.

The gap in standards of coaching and s&c in the clubs vs private schools has narrowed and we are seeing that with more and more club guys in the pro game. It still offers a far more realistic, sustainable and successful route to pro sport than any other team sport in the country.

But theres more to the game than the pro game. It's still a hugely enjoyable and rewarding game even at the lower levels. And its thriving throughout the country there.

Tom Mann Centuria

stephen_n wrote: »

No if you’re parents can afford to send you to a private school, your chances will be increased due to the level of coaching. Same way most of the professional soccer players come from middle class backgrounds, with supportive parents, who help and support their ambitions. Their are kids from all over Leinster being trained coached and prepared for possibly becoming professional players, that will never set foot in a private school. Obviously the kids who train in nearly professional setups will have an advantage. Money creates advantage, that’s true for all society. It is also true for all sports, including GAA and soccer.

Private school attendance does not enhance your chances of becoming a professional footballer, it does enhance your chances of becoming a professional rugby player. According to points put forward in this thread.

Tom Mann Centuria

molloyjh wrote: »

That's becoming less and less true with time. Guys like SOB and Furlong for example werent from a private school. Others in the Leinster set up at the moment, like Dooely, Frawley, Conor O'Brien or Adam Byrne, similarly arent from a private school background.

The gap in standards of coaching and s&c in the clubs vs private schools has narrowed and we are seeing that with more and more club guys in the pro game. It still offers a far more realistic, sustainable and successful route to pro sport than any other team sport in the country.

But theres more to the game than the pro game. It's still a hugely enjoyable and rewarding game even at the lower levels. And its thriving throughout the country there.

I accept your point, and I don't doubt that in a few years if things continue as they are, spreading the base of the game, it will be a much more level playing field. It's clearly not what it used to be, but the game still has an image problem, and at present it's still very easy to see why people think it's a game for the haves and not the have nots (at the elite level).

molloyjh

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Private school attendance does not enhance your chances of becoming a professional footballer, it does enhance your chances of becoming a professional rugby player. According to points put forward in this thread.

That's because they are completely different sports. The level of training plus strength and conditioning required for rugby is incomparable with soccer. The better access to the relevant facilities has a far greater impact on rugby than it would on soccer.

But as I said earlier, that's changing as the IRFU invest in development pathways outside of the private schools. That change takes time but has already borne fruit. It will only get more successful as that investment continues.

Meanwhile the FAI all but destroyed the soccer infrastructure in this country. Of all the things people can give out about rugby about, it is a well run sport expanding its investment in those who play it all over the country and delivering real success all the while.

silver2020

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

rugby, in Dublin in particular, is considered by many and evidenced by the the article in the Irish times as an old school, garrison, “West Brit” sport.

Particularly In light of the election results last week,

Not sure what the election results have to do with it - but seeing as you brought it up, Eoin O'Broin of SF is a Blackrock boy.

I won't say what school Mary-Lou's son goes to as he's in that school. But I assure you it's a "good rugby school" and has fees well in excess of €5k


but on the gist of the article, there is a big problem with recent past pupils of particular schools who use these matches to vent their pent up anger which they cannot be seen to have in their normal silver spoon lives as mummy would be so embarrassed.

stephen_n

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Private school attendance does not enhance your chances of becoming a professional footballer, it does enhance your chances of becoming a professional rugby player. According to points put forward in this thread.

Yes it enhances them, it doesn’t guarantee them. Having the advantage of money enhances everyone’s chances in life. The idea of the working class hero soccer player is a myth. Rugby has been dominated by two schools in recent times, that have spent a huge amount of money on their setups. That doesn’t mean that the hundreds of other schools and clubs don’t count and that rugby as a whole is an elitist sport. GAA is dominated by clubs who can afford the best facilities and pay coaches too. Affluence will always influence sport.

molloyjh

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

I accept your point, and I don't doubt that in a few years if things continue as they are, spreading the base of the game, it will be a much more level playing field. It's clearly not what it used to be, but the game still has an image problem, and at present it's still very easy to see why people think it's a game for the haves and not the have nots (at the elite level).

I think that image problem only exists where people want it to. I'm a middle class guy from a GAA area. Rugby wasnt on my radar at all growing up. But in the 20+ years that I've been following it I've never felt any dissociation from the game due to elitism or anything like that. When I started playing I was welcomed with open arms. When I stopped I was asked to come back. When I go to games in the RDS I meet people from all walks of life and enjoy their company. I couldnt tell you where players went to school in the main because it just doesnt matter to me. I dont relate any more or less to Rob Kearney than Tadhg Furlong. It's just an irrelevance to my enjoyment of the game. When I had the time and money to follow Leinster around Europe there was always positive engagement with players and coaches to the point that I always felt a part of the club. It's been overwhelmingly positive. Where some of the lads did or didnt go to school has never mattered a jot to any of that.

[Deleted User]

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Seriously, I know many rugby fans are in denial but can we call a spade a a spade and just accept that rugby, in Dublin in particular, is considered by many and evidenced by the the article in the Irish times as an old school, garrison, “West Brit” sport.

Particularly In light of the election results last week, the article in the IT, the fake south Dublin accents, the aping of the Tory boy mentality in England, the entire post colonial mentality. This is why Irish rugby team will never win a World Cup, because the players derive mostly from private fee paying schools and they just don’t have the grit or toughness. Fan boys on here will argue that this topic has been covered before and try and brush it off but these type of incidents keep popping up that they cannot just be pushed aside, if you are a real rugby fan you have to address this issue.

Article is here https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/your-father-works-for-my-father-schools-rugby-turning-toxic-in-the-stands-1.4172843

I am the son of a Dock worker and a housewife, from Northside Cork City. Started playing at 17, move to Dublin after college and joined St. Mary's.
Won a J3 cup and, following year, J1 Metro League/2nd's League/Cup.

Injured badly and then coached for 3 years in the club before moving home.
At no time was my background or parent's income ever mentioned or acknowledged.

The only time there was ever an appearance of the wealth of some was when I was offered free use of summer homes, in the south of France, during my recuperation. And that was purely by a team mate looking out for me, knowing the months I faced staring at an apartment wall.

I have my own issues with the school game, and the difference in coaching Vs clubs allowing for equal talent not developing equally but people bring the baggage they want, when looking at rugby.
The rest of us just want to play sport.

jacothelad

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Seriously, I know many rugby fans are in denial but can we call a spade a a spade and just accept that rugby, in Dublin in particular, is considered by many and evidenced by the the article in the Irish times as an old school, garrison, “West Brit” sport.

Particularly In light of the election results last week, the article in the IT, the fake south Dublin accents, the aping of the Tory boy mentality in England, the entire post colonial mentality. This is why Irish rugby team will never win a World Cup, because the players derive mostly from private fee paying schools and they just don’t have the grit or toughness. Fan boys on here will argue that this topic has been covered before and try and brush it off but these type of incidents keep popping up that they cannot just be pushed aside, if you are a real rugby fan you have to address this issue.

Article is here https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/your-father-works-for-my-father-schools-rugby-turning-toxic-in-the-stands-1.4172843

This post seems to be based entirely upon unthinking bigotry.

Melodeon

Pat Kenny will be doing an item on this on Newstalk "after 10" this morning, if anyone wants to listen in.

v638sg7k1a92bx

So can someone tell me all these places outside of D2, D4 that the IRFU are developing the sport.

If I have kids who are not in a private fee paying school, where do I send them to play rugby?

Interested Observer

Melodeon wrote: »

Pat Kenny will be doing an item on this on Newstalk "after 10" this morning, if anyone wants to listen in.

I think I'll pass. Nothing factual will be discussed and nothing useful will come of it. They had a similar piece on Second Captains just after Xmas. I cannot understand the mindset of people like the OP, Miguel Delaney and Ewan McKenna types who actually spend their time and energy disliking a sport. Mostly based on absolute bollocks, or a single anecdote like in the article linked in the OP.

[Deleted User]

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

So can someone tell me all these places outside if D2, D4 that the IRFU are developing the sport.

If I have kids who are not in a private fee paying school, where do I send them to play rugby?

Clubs, plenty of clubs around. I am coaching my own son at under 7 level, right now.

Interested Observer

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

So can someone tell me all these places outside if D2, D4 that the IRFU are developing the sport.

If I have kids who are not in a private fee paying school, where do I send them to play rugby?

Any one of the dots on this map.

https://d2cx26qpfwuhvu.cloudfront.net/irfu/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/21160036/RugbyClubsofIrelandMape.jpg

[Deleted User]

Northside of Cork City is still a barren wasteland to rugby, unfortunately.

Neil3030

There's actually nothing too outrageous in the article itself. Clearly a rugby man who found the behaviour of a subsection of the crowd at a schools match unacceptable, and wants it addressed.

However I'm not entirely sure what the rest of the OP's spittle flecked hyperbole is hoping to achieve. You want more people playing rugby outside of private schools? The IRFU very much want this too, FYI, as do all rugby fans (if I may speak on everyone's behalf). Sooo.. we're all on the same page?

molloyjh

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

So can someone tell me all these places outside if D2, D4 that the IRFU are developing the sport.

If I have kids who are not in a private fee paying school, where do I send them to play rugby?

Your local club. Theres plenty out there. It's not hard to find them and they'd be all too delighted to have more players signing up. You could even see if they have a team you could join yourself.

My mother in laws partner is from Dublins Northside. Grew up playing soccer before being randomly invited to play rugby in Clontarf by a guy he worked with. Moved to Bray and joined Greystones RFC. He was never one of the "elite". Just a normal bloke who loved his sport. If you heard how passionately he speaks about the game and what it gave him, the life long friendships, memories etc you might see a different side to the game.

[Deleted User]

Neil3030 wrote: »

There's actually nothing too outrageous in the article itself. Clearly a rugby man who found the behaviour of a subsection of the crowd at a schools match unacceptable, and wants it addressed.

However I'm not entirely sure what the rest of the OP's spittle flecked hyperbole is hoping to achieve. You want more people playing rugby outside of private schools? The IRFU very much want this too, FYI, as do all rugby fans (if I may speak on everyone's behalf). Sooo.. we're all on the same page?

Yeah, the article has very little bearing on the OP commentary.

jacothelad

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, the article has very little bearing on the OP commentary.

Yes and the OP left out insulting us North Brits. I demand parity of insult...:D

Harry Palmr

Isn't this is just Dublin rugby's version of "feed the poor" anti Liverpool chant by Man Utd City/Chelsea supporters?

Idiotic and juvenile but not much beyond that.

sydthebeat

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Not very aspirational is it? So if your parents can't afford to send you to private school, your chances of making it as a professional rugby player are greatly diminished?

thats incredibly naive Tom.

if you want to maximse your chances of getting the best leaving cert results, you go to fee paying schools

if you want to be among the elites of chefs in the country, you go work under the best michelin starred chefs....

there are less than 200 full time professional rugby players in this country.
in order to be among them, you need to make decisions as to the path you take.

Do you stay with your club where you get perhaps max 2 hours training a week, and a game, with a volunteer coach in a volunteer lead club... or do you get 7-8 hours a week, and a game, in a private school under a dedicated director or rugby, paid senior coaches, strength and conditioning coaches in the best facilities?

even going to these schools does not guarantee you any kind of a route towards professionalism.

the reality is a lot of promising players go to fee paying schools for the senior cycle (2 final years),... so even though they are then classed as "private school" players their development was actually through the club system.

there is also a route to the leinster sub academy through the club system, which doesn't require any private school attendance. obviously the numbers getting through this route isnt anywhere as high as the fee paying route, but thats is due to the reasons ive already said. But still, if you are good enough, youre good enough. Tadhg Furlong came in that route. Sean O brien came in that route.most recently i think Ciaran Frawley has come through that route.