new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

lolanacho · 14-02-2020 02:42AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you know where in China he's from or where he was? East of china is unaffected.

Nope, they couldn’t give me “that information”, mind you the teacher told the kids the child is “virus free” because he stayed in Central China!!!

14-02-2020 02:52AM

lolanacho wrote: »

Nope, they couldn’t give me “that information”, mind you the teacher told the kids the child is “virus free” because he stayed in Central China!!!

Nowadays, "i can't give you that information" is code for "i don't know" or "no-one thought to ask".

With that level of ignorance and apathy, I'd be keeping my kid home if I had one.

See my comment earlier about principals who could not care less.

Sidenote: I'd love a kid or two but the primary downside, for me, is having to spend 14+ years dealing with the school system.

ThePopehimself · 14-02-2020 02:58AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Context is key. Wuhan in west china, population 11 million is the epicenter of the virus. Shanghai, 800km away from Wuhan in west china is unaffected.

There are multiple infections in Europe, as per your post. Should we limit movement of all Europeans now?

That would be an interesting question for the OP to pose to the principal; In what part of China did the boy spend the last two months?

That said, on the hypothetical distance from Wuhan to Shanghai thing, the distance from Wuhan to Singapore is 3,432 km...and look what's happening there, 58 infected.

So, if I had to roll the dice, I'd rather not springboard anyone from China, Shanghai or Wuhan, into my child's classroom right now, not after two months there and especially not while his own parents are keeping him away from his sibling, but sending him into school nonetheless.

As per limiting movement, hasn't The Irish Dept OF Foreign Affairs already urged any Irish people intending to travel to China whose presence in the country “is not essential" to "avoid non-essential” travel?

Not quite sure why you would suggest limiting the movement of 'All Europeans'. I would, however, like to have seen the parents in this case keep their child out of school for the 14 days especially as they are keeping him from his sibling.

I would do that.

bodhrandude · 14-02-2020 03:30AM

A BBC piece on the missing Chinese citizen journalists Fang Bin and Chen Qiushi.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51486106

14-02-2020 04:47AM

ThePopehimself wrote: »

That would be an interesting question for the OP to pose to the principal; In what part of China did the boy spend the last two months?

That said, on the hypothetical distance from Wuhan to Shanghai thing, the distance from Wuhan to Singapore is 3,432 km...and look what's happening there, 58 infected.

So, if I had to roll the dice, I'd rather not springboard anyone from China, Shanghai or Wuhan, into my child's classroom right now, not after two months there and especially not while his own parents are keeping him away from his sibling, but sending him into school nonetheless.

As per limiting movement, hasn't The Irish Dept OF Foreign Affairs already urged any Irish people intending to travel to China whose presence in the country “is not essential" to "avoid non-essential” travel?

Not quite sure why you would suggest limiting the movement of 'All Europeans'. I would, however, like to have seen the parents in this case keep their child out of school for the 14 days especially as they are keeping him from his sibling.

I would do that.

You missed several of my points.

14-02-2020 05:04AM

NSW Health authorities boarded the Norwegian Jewel at the Overseas Passenger Terminal on Friday morning to test the passenger in accordance with new security protocols to protect against the potential spread of the virus.
The precautionary measure delayed disembarkation for roughly an hour and passengers have since been allowed to get off the ship, a Port Authority spokesman said.
A spokesperson for NSW Health said in a statement that one person aboard the ship had been tested for respiratory illness. The results were expected on Friday afternoon.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/passenger-tested-for-coronavirus-on-cruise-ship-in-sydney-harbour-20200214-p540tp.html

So much for erring on the side of caution

bodhrandude · 14-02-2020 05:21AM

Deleted User wrote: »

NSW Health authorities boarded the Norwegian Jewel at the Overseas Passenger Terminal on Friday morning to test the passenger in accordance with new security protocols to protect against the potential spread of the virus.
The precautionary measure delayed disembarkation for roughly an hour and passengers have since been allowed to get off the ship, a Port Authority spokesman said.
A spokesperson for NSW Health said in a statement that one person aboard the ship had been tested for respiratory illness. The results were expected on Friday afternoon.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/passenger-tested-for-coronavirus-on-cruise-ship-in-sydney-harbour-20200214-p540tp.html

Yikes, what happens if the passenger tests positive, they've released passengers into the ether or are they actually kept in isolation somewhere from the ship.

old_aussie · 14-02-2020 06:25AM

bodhrandude wrote: »

Yikes, what happens if the passenger tests positive, they've released passengers into the ether or are they actually kept in isolation somewhere from the ship.

If passenger in North Korea, passenger go to public bath ...you get .....

https://nationalpost.com/news/kim-jong-un-executes-north-korea-official-who-used-public-bath-while-in-coronavirus-quarantine-reports

You're worth your weight in lead!

bodhrandude · 14-02-2020 06:35AM

Another report on the Norwegian Jewel cruise ship, apparently the test came back negative at 3 pm, but hopefully they will do some more tests just to be on the safe side. https://7news.com.au/travel/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases-sydney-cruise-ship-passenger-tested-by-nsw-health-c-697368

old_aussie · 14-02-2020 06:44AM

bodhrandude wrote: »

A BBC piece on the missing Chinese citizen journalists Fang Bin and Chen Qiushi.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51486106

Xi Jinping's version of the "cone-of-silence".

Good for communist party, good for all China!

joseywhales · 14-02-2020 06:57AM

When the virus reaches the developing world, there will be little diagnosis and almost no isolation, at which point it makes me doubt the effectiveness of such measures in the developed world.

Shows us the short sightedness(as global citizens) of our nationalistic and protective mentality by not investing in and improving the developing world.

Kermit.de.frog · 14-02-2020 07:01AM

The United States has openly criticised the "lack of transparency" from China. Diplomatic way of saying 'we don't believe you'

Meanwhile...

https://twitter.com/MikeSmithAFR/status/1228175952431079425

BanditLuke · 14-02-2020 07:42AM

joseywhales wrote: »

When the virus reaches the developing world, there will be little diagnosis and almost no isolation, at which point it makes me doubt the effectiveness of such measures in the developed world.

Shows us the short sightedness(as global citizens) of our nationalistic and protective mentality by not investing in and improving the developing world.

China is more developed than most. We won't cope nearly as well as they have.

joseywhales · 14-02-2020 09:14AM

BanditLuke wrote: »

China is more developed than most. We won't cope nearly as well as they have.

exactly, thats my point, what about when it reaches africa or poorer regions of asia?

SeaBreezes · 14-02-2020 09:21AM

joseywhales wrote: »

exactly, thats my point, what about when it reaches africa or poorer regions of asia?

It most certainly is there already. Just not detected.

I note the percentage of deaths in recovered cases has dropped by 2% since they changed the counting criteria. That's good.
It's moved from 20% to 18%.

pc7 · 14-02-2020 09:23AM

I'm feeling a bit more hopeful that the spread outside China is so low. Any experts here? Could it be a case Wuhan etc. is so bad perhaps as the virus was stronger when first infections occurred? Now a few months on its not as bad?

Kermit.de.frog · 14-02-2020 09:26AM

BanditLuke wrote: »

China is more developed than most. We won't cope nearly as well as they have.

Have you ever been to China?

Yurt2 · 14-02-2020 09:27AM

BanditLuke wrote: »

China is more developed than most. We won't cope nearly as well as they have.

I wouldn't recommend going to a public hospital in China. Not for the faint of heart and you'd nearly want a tetanus shot after visiting some of them. Their public health system is still not comparable to the level of European countries. Shiny high-speed trains don't mask the reality that China is a developing country in a lot of respects.

I'm no public health expert, but I'd argue that their hospital set-up and practices are a large part of the reason why the problem to hold so severely in Wuhan in the first place. That and their cultural and political predilection to sweep bad news under the carpet.

joseywhales · 14-02-2020 09:31AM

My only evidence is anecdotal from talking to an IM attending here in India. The impression was that although they had isolated the 3 cases in Kerala, that Kerala has more resources per capita than any other region and in the case of an outbreak, they could not diagnose let alone isolate it in time, they would basically just be treating people as they show up.

14-02-2020 09:33AM

joseywhales wrote: »

When the virus reaches the developing world, there will be little diagnosis and almost no isolation, at which point it makes me doubt the effectiveness of such measures in the developed world.

Shows us the short sightedness(as global citizens) of our nationalistic and protective mentality by not investing in and improving the developing world.

Countless billions have been wasted on the third world for decades. The hard reality is that dictators and crooked governments rule them and take the money. You can see in multiple examples of intervention what happens if you try regime change.

It does not matter, were they 1st world countries and it spread, the solution would be to close the doors and isolate the countries. We`ll see what happens Singapore and Japan, both modern and relatively rich countries.

14-02-2020 09:38AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

It most certainly is there already. Just not detected.

I note the percentage of deaths in recovered cases has dropped by 2% since they changed the counting criteria. That's good.
It's moved from 20% to 18%.

The guardian in their updates pages said that deaths were not part of the new counting!

1d ago
11:39
Daily death toll rises sharply
In addition to the rise of new cases, there has also been a significant rise in the death toll in the past 24 hours.

More than 240 deaths were recorded on Wednesday (figures published on Thursday). This compares with 97 deaths the previous day.

There has been no change to the way deaths are recorded, so this really is a significant increase in one day.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/feb/13/coronavirus-latest-updates-deaths-in-china-pass-1300-with-jump-in-cases-live-news?page=with:block-5e449f428f086a28115aac07

Everyone dying of 'viral pneumonia is just being ignored from the statistics

hmmm · 14-02-2020 09:40AM

lolanacho wrote: »

So the Chinese guy will keep going to school..... I’ve decided to keep my little fella at home until after the break, that’d be two weeks since the Chinese guy arrived back in Ireland.

God it must be awful to be a Chinese person at the moment having to deal with people like you. I feel so sorry for that student and what they must be going through.

The Department of Health are putting out level-headed guidance and the last thing we need is uninformed and panicky people deciding themselves what the best actions to take are. Hopefully the school authorities will make it clear that this won't be tolerated.

Drumpot · 14-02-2020 09:41AM

https://www.ghsindex.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Ireland.pdf

Source

https://www.ghsindex.org/country/ireland/

Some interesting reading. We are ranked 15/43 in Europe in terms of prepared for dealing with a pathogen.

Interesting low scores:

-Exercising response plans 0 - average across world 16.2
- Linking public health and security authorities 0 - average across world 22.6
-Communications with healthcare workers during a public health emergency
0 - average across world 15.1

Who’d of thought one of the most basic , controllable elements which are communication would be such an easy area for most countries to be so bad. We get big 0s but the average of those variables is terribly low.

I really hope that story posted by the person with the Chinese student is a joke. That’s negligence of the highest order from the HSE , the school and anybody willingly involved in ignoring public safety out of pure ignorance. This is why I don’t trust the authority’s, they really don’t think it’s going to come here so are acting irresponsible and taking risks with peoples lives. The pathetic thing is that this isn’t rocket science or difficult to manage. Makes me sick because this is the sort of laissez-faire attitude that makes what doesn’t need to be a pandemic Into a pandemic. Prevention is better then cure.

ForestFire · 14-02-2020 09:49AM

hmmm wrote: »

God it must be awful to be a Chinese person at the moment having to deal with people like you. I feel so sorry for that student and what they must be going through.

The Department of Health are putting out level-headed guidance and the last thing we need is uninformed and panicky people deciding themselves what the best actions to take are. Hopefully the school authorities will make it clear that this won't be tolerated.

There was an employee in our workplace that returned from a business trip from China and was instructed to stay home for 2 weeks before returning to work.

Do you feel sorry for them also. Did the company commit some hinious crime against them?

It is nothing to do with if the person is Chinese or not, it is about where they have travelled from.

SeaBreezes · 14-02-2020 09:52AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The guardian in their updates pages said that deaths were not part of the new counting!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/feb/13/coronavirus-latest-updates-deaths-in-china-pass-1300-with-jump-in-cases-live-news?page=with:block-5e449f428f086a28115aac07

Everyone dying of 'viral pneumonia is just being ignored from the statistics

Whelp, that just burst my little hope bubble...

They're playing with stats then.
Including clinical diagnosis of viral pneumonia but not death from viral pneumonia?

dominatinMC · 14-02-2020 09:59AM

hmmm wrote: »

God it must be awful to be a Chinese person at the moment having to deal with people like you. I feel so sorry for that student and what they must be going through.

The Department of Health are putting out level-headed guidance and the last thing we need is uninformed and panicky people deciding themselves what the best actions to take are. Hopefully the school authorities will make it clear that this won't be tolerated.

You've clearly been watching too much of the RTE propaganda. I feel sorry for the kids (of whatever nationality) who could potentially be exposed to the virus as a result of the irresponsible parents of this Chinese child. No time for virtue-signalling, bleeding hearts around here

hmmm · 14-02-2020 10:00AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

They're playing with stats then.
Including clinical diagnosis of viral pneumonia but not death from viral pneumonia?

What they've done is go back and reclassified people who died of ncov symptoms who tested negative, or didn't have a test, in the death statistics.

What they've also done is include people who have symptoms (usually via lung scans) who are testing negative. That's why the suspected cases dropped by nearly 20,000, while the numbers of confirmed went up by a similar amount.

I don't think they're playing with figures as such - the testing equipment is not perfect, there's a limit on numbers they can test, and it sometimes does not detect the virus (particularly early in the infection). What they're increasingly doing is taking chest CT scans and relying on that as an additional diagnostic.

I think we're expecting too much to have very accurate figures while they are struggling to get control of the epidemic in Wuhan. The number of critical patients is in my view a much more accurate indication of what is happening, as it appears they are beginning to get on top of providing beds for most people in that state who are presenting at hospitals.

There's an interesting new paper published yesterday from doctors in Wuhan showing how they are triaging patients.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30071-0/fulltext

ThePopehimself · 14-02-2020 10:06AM

hmmm wrote: »

God it must be awful to be a Chinese person at the moment having to deal with people like you. I feel so sorry for that student and what they must be going through.

The Department of Health are putting out level-headed guidance and the last thing we need is uninformed and panicky people deciding themselves what the best actions to take are. Hopefully the school authorities will make it clear that this won't be tolerated.

Did you see lolanacho's OP?
The child returned from two months in China during the week and turned up to school the next day.

The IRISH mum's concern arose when she learned that the Chinese parents of the Chinese child are keeping him separate from his younger sibling until two weeks has passed for fear he could pass it to the younger sibling. He is currently staying with his grandparents. However, the Chinese parents are perfectly happy to send the child to school.

The mum spoke to the principal, who directed her to the official HSE line.She has decided to keep her son out of school until she too feels it is safe.

So with regard to your opening line to Lolancho 'God it must be awful to be a Chinese person at the moment having to deal with people like you.'

THE IRISH MUM IS DOING NO MORE AND NO LESS THAN THE CHINESE PARENTS ARE DOING FOR THE YOUNGER SIBLING. She is isolating her child.

This is not about race, it is about her protecting her child from Coronavirus.

wellwhynot · 14-02-2020 10:07AM

What if the student does turn out to have the Coronavirus and infects the class?

Are the HSE liable? The school?

Interim Director of the Health Protection Surveillance Centre Dr John Cuddihy said the ability of the virus to transmit from person to person is limited. People are extremely unlikely to catch the virus here.

^^^So we will be grand so. You can’t really catch it from other people in Ireland. That is what he is saying right? Somehow it won’t infect us the way it has in other countries, on the cruise ships etc.

If this turns out to be false and people don’t take the precautions they would have who is liable?

josip · 14-02-2020 10:12AM

hmmm wrote: »

God it must be awful to be a Chinese person at the moment having to deal with people like you. I feel so sorry for that student and what they must be going through.

The Department of Health are putting out level-headed guidance and the last thing we need is uninformed and panicky people deciding themselves what the best actions to take are. Hopefully the school authorities will make it clear that this won't be tolerated.

Hmnnn, do you think it's double standards for that Chinese family to try to protect the sibling from possible infection, yet have no qualms about potentially infecting a whole class/school of children?

From your posts it would seem that you're perfectly ok with that.

new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

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