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President Donald Trump - Formal Impeachment Inquiry Announced

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Comments

  • #5042
    Dytalus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 459 ✭✭Dytalus


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Solitary confinement for up to 23 hours a day is still considered torture by many. And it works… It literally breaks people.



    https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/09/mueller-goon-squad/

    More on solitary confinement…
    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/what-does-solitary-confinement-do-to-your-mind/

    Yes it does. I'm sure your disdain for it is widespread and has fueled a desire for mass reform of the American justice system - which uses it extensively - based on this research

    Or do you just have a problem with it because one of 'your guys' is at risk of it? Never mind that I can find no mention of him staring down solitary at all. He is, however, being held "in isolation" which is not the same thing. It means he's held separate from the main body of the prison inmates, not that he's locked in solitary confinement. There will be other high-profile inmates with him:
    A law-enforcement official familiar with the correction department’s practices, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss security measures, said Mr. Manafort would most likely be housed in a former prison hospital on the island. That is where most high-profile detainees are held, including police officers, those accused of killing police officers, politicians and celebrities.
    A law enforcement official familiar with the jail’s practices said he would probably be held in one of the oldest buildings in the island, known as the North Infirmary Command, which was built in the early 1930s, or in one of the complex’s newest structures, a set of fiberglass tent-like structures known as “Sprungs.”

    Cell blocks in the infirmary command have eight cells and a day room with a television on each tier, the official said. The inmates are not locked in their cells during the day.
    URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/04/nyregion/manafort-rikers-island-solitary-confinement.html"]Source[/URL


  • #5043
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,866 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Manafort was serving a federal prison sentence in a minimum security prison in Pennsylvania.

    But then a New York State judge ordered his move to Rikers Island prison at the request of Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr where he would be subjected at times to solitary confinement.


    Ah so you are upset that he was moved from a cushy place?


    Gee, I wonder why they wanted him in Rikers? Torture, maybe?

    Again you use the word torture, can you show proof that he was subjected to torture "like a terrorist"?
    Solitary confinement for up to 23 hours a day is still considered torture by many. And it works… It literally breaks people.

    But he wasn't as I posted above.


  • #5044
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    But he wasn't as I posted above.
    And when he's not meeting with his attorneys and legal team?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #5045
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Dytalus wrote: »
    Yes it does. I'm sure your disdain for it is widespread and has fueled a desire for mass reform of the American justice system - which uses it extensively - based on this research

    Or do you just have a problem with it because one of 'your guys' is at risk of it? Never mind that I can find no mention of him staring down solitary at all. He is, however, being held "in isolation" which is not the same thing. It means he's held separate from the main body of the prison inmates, not that he's locked in solitary confinement. There will be other high-profile inmates with him:



    URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/04/nyregion/manafort-rikers-island-solitary-confinement.html"]Source[/URL
    In the case of terrorists, some murders and rapists, and extremely violent prisoners I’d say it is warranted at times. Manafort’s crime does not approach those extremes in the least bit.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #5046
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    valoren wrote: »
    Even Tricky Dicky wouldn't have dreamed of directing the AG and the DOJ in such a brazen and transparent manner. The man at least had the tact and decency to resign. Stone was an infamous "ratf*cker". Dirty tricks, sleaze, slanderous smears, "kompromat". That's what the toxic prick did, that was his trade. But he got caught. He was indicted and convicted with witness tampering, obstruction of justice and making false statements. Those are serious crimes. He was given a fair trial, you know, one with evidence and witnesses presented and he was found guilty of those crimes. Funnily enough, he would not have been convicted of those crimes if he didn’t commit those crimes in the first place but anyway. Now isn't it interesting now that the infamous ratf*cker is scheduled to be sentenced that Donny is appalled at the treatment he received, how supportive he is of Rog? Going beyond expected protocol and retaining the DOJ's impartiality strikes me as an act of quiet desperation. Stone is no fool and is anyone willing to bet that he, after years of dirty tricks, doesn't know or have anything that would destroy Donny? Of course he has. Trump's goal is to dangle a pardon for Stone and exploit the situation to muddy the waters and slander career prosecutors, blame the Dems and lend credence to conspiracy nut cases i.e. keep your mouth shut Rog. I can and I will pardon you if you do
    Oh the hypocrisy. Remember when the Attorney General Eric Holder proclaimed 'I'm still the president's wingman?'

    Yes, Stone deserves some jail time but nine years is too excessive, though. As does Tony Podesta, Hillary Clinton, James Comey, Andrew McCabe, John Brennan, and James Clapper for their illegal activities. Right?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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  • #5047
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,866 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    notobtuse wrote: »
    And when he's not meeting with his attorneys and legal team?

    He is in his cell, like ANY other prisoner, why should he get special treatment?


  • #5048
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Yes, Stone deserves some jail time but nine years is too excessive, though. As does Tony Podesta, Hillary Clinton, James Comey, Andrew McCabe, John Brennan, and James Clapper for their illegal activities. Right?

    Ah that's not fair, Andy said he was sorry. You can't prosecute people if they say they're sorry.

    https://nypost.com/2020/01/02/andrew-mccabe-said-he-lied-to-fbi-about-wall-street-journal-leak/


  • #5049
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,866 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Oh the hypocrisy. Remember when the Attorney General Eric Holder proclaimed 'I'm still the president's wingman?'

    Yes, Stone deserves some jail time but nine years is too excessive, though. As does Tony Podesta, Hillary Clinton, James Comey, Andrew McCabe, John Brennan, and James Clapper for their illegal activities. Right?

    In your opinion.

    As for your little list, if they receive a fair trial (like Stone) and are found guilty then yes they deserve jail time, no on is saying different on here.


  • #5050
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    In your opinion.

    As for your little list, if they receive a fair trial (like Stone) and are found guilty then yes they deserve jail time, no on is saying different on here.
    Good man. So they all should be charged, arrested and tried in a court of law, I take it.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #5051
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,866 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Good man. So they all should be charged, arrested and tried in a court of law, I take it.

    If there is proof of a crime then they should be charged, after a fair trial if they are found guilty then they should go to jail. I don't have an issue with that.

    Why hasn't Trump asked for their arrest do you think?


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  • #5052
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,308 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    There is no talking to most liberals on issues related to Trump. It's a waste of time. They're immune to the truth.

    What nonsense, you have been engaged with endlessly and have rarely dealt with any of the challenging questions put to you that require you to do some objective thinking and honest responding. The problem for Trump supporters is your guy makes it near impossible to sound credible, you ask for 'truth', yet Trump lies endlessly, you laud his trade wars without admitting it's resulted in socialist style bailouts, the economy is going well but you a blind eye to the staggering deficit he is running up, he's building the wall and raiding the Pentagon to fund it, the contradictions are blindingly obvious and endless, it goes on and on.

    I only know a couple of Trump supporters, and the literally are unable to articulate why they support him outside of a few soundbites which mean little, MAGA, drian the swamp,etc. They cant say it but they like him as he allows them to be open about their dislike for civil discourse, intelligent debate, those uppity n!ggers, minorities, latino, intelligent women, gays, black babies, etc.

    That is the guy you bat for.


  • #5053
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    If there is proof of a crime then they should be charged, after a fair trial if they are found guilty then they should go to jail. I don't have an issue with that.

    Why hasn't Trump asked for their arrest do you think?
    Because Trump can be a wuss at times. But there’s still hope if democrats keep pushing.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #5054
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,866 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Because Trump can be a wuss at times. But there’s still hope if democrats keep pushing.

    So dems should push for arrests/conviction but Reps can cry foul (after a trial/conviction) and scream "UNFAIR" when the sentence is too long in their opinion?


  • #5055
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    So dems should push for arrests/conviction but Reps can cry foul (after a trial/conviction) and scream "UNFAIR" when the sentence is too long in their opinion?
    Dems do already... All but the unfair part because they get away with their crimes. Didn't you know there is one set of laws for republicans and no set of laws for democrats?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #5056
    Gwen Cooper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 719 ✭✭✭Gwen Cooper


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Didn't you know there is one set of laws for republicans and no set of laws for democrats?

    Yes. Yes, we noticed that lately.


  • #5057
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,866 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Dems do already... All but the unfair part because they get away with their crimes. Didn't you know there is one set of laws for republicans and no set of laws for democrats?

    If there is proof of crimes why hasn't the Donald had them arrested/charged? C'mon man it's not a difficult question, why have they not been arrested?

    He is literally the most powerful man there, he has republican judges coming out of his proverbial wazzoo, why has t he had them arrested and charged if there is proof of crimes committed?


  • #5058
    pearcider
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭pearcider


    Stallingrad wrote: »
    What nonsense, you have been engaged with endlessly and have rarely dealt with any of the challenging questions put to you that require you to do some objective thinking and honest responding. The problem for Trump supporters is your guy makes it near impossible to sound credible, you ask for 'truth', yet Trump lies endlessly, you laud his trade wars without admitting it's resulted in socialist style bailouts, the economy is going well but you a blind eye to the staggering deficit he is running up, he's building the wall and raiding the Pentagon to fund it, the contradictions are blindingly obvious and endless, it goes on and on.

    I only know a couple of Trump supporters, and the literally are unable to articulate why they support him outside of a few soundbites which mean little, MAGA, drian the swamp,etc. They cant say it but they like him as he allows them to be open about their dislike for civil discourse, intelligent debate, those uppity n!ggers, minorities, latino, intelligent women, gays, black babies, etc.

    That is the guy you bat for.

    Obama started the staggering deficits he doubled the national debt. Trump is not gonna over spend 40 trillion no matter how much he tries. And Trump has done more for the uppity minorities than any president in history - by giving them employment in record numbers. You lefties are the ones blinded to Trumps rather brilliant achievements to date because you don’t like his style basically. Obama was all style and no substance. He doubled the national debt spending more than all the 43 presidents before him combined. Let that sink in.

    Also Roger Stone is an absolute gentleman. His arrest and persecution is nothing but sour grapes by the Democratic controlled State Dept and FBI. Sending an armed swat team to arrest him in a dawn raid while also tipping off the clown news network to the raid says it all. The deep state are scum.


  • #5059
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    If there is proof of crimes why hasn't the Donald had them arrested/charged? C'mon man it's not a difficult question, why have they not been arrested?

    He is literally the most powerful man there, he has republican judges coming out of his proverbial wazzoo, why has t he had them arrested and charged if there is proof of crimes committed?
    Trump as president is not allowed to arrest or legally charge anyone. He's not a king.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #5060
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,866 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    pearcider wrote: »
    Obama started the staggering deficits he doubled the national debt. Trump is not gonna over spend 40 trillion no matter how much he tries. And Trump has done more for the uppity minorities than any president in history - by giving them employment in record numbers. You lefties are the ones blinded to Trumps rather brilliant achievements to date because you don’t like his style basically. Obama was all style and no substance. He doubled the national debt spending more than all the 43 presidents before him combined. Let that sink in.


    I think Lincoln and Trueman might have something to say about that ridiculous claim.
    Also Roger Stone is a criminal. His arrest and persecution is nothing but sour grapes by the Democratic controlled State Dept and FBI. Sending an armed swat team to arrest him in a dawn raid while also tipping off the clown news network to the raid says it all. The deep state are scum.

    Fixed that for you. He was arrested, charged, tried in court and found guilty. I get it, you Trump fans hate to see decisions go against your golden boys but this (along with Trumps impeachment) is a fact.


  • #5061
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,866 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Trump as president is not allowed to arrest or legally charge anyone. He's not a king.

    I never said he could, but if he or anyone else has proof of crimes they could have the perpetrators arrested, why do you think this hasn't happened?


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  • #5062
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Fixed that for you. He was arrested, charged, tried in court and found guilty. I get it, you Trump fans hate to see decisions go against your golden boys but this (along with Trumps impeachment) is a fact.
    Wrong. All we want is equal justice under the law. I know that's a hard concept for the left and democrats here to comprehend, but it's merely that simple.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #5063
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,866 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Wrong. All we want is equal justice under the law. I know that's a hard concept for the left and democrats here to comprehend, but it's merely that simple.

    Why do you keep dodging the question?

    If there is proof of a crime why hasn't there been arrests?

    Edit: I'm neither left nor Democrat, I'm just an interested observer of American politics, especially the shìt show that has taken place since Trump was elected.


  • #5064
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I never said he could, but if he or anyone else has proof of crimes they could have the perpetrators arrested, why do you think this hasn't happened?
    What, like have Trump go to each of their houses and make a citizen's arrest?

    I think Barr will eventually get around to it. He's not Shifty Schiff who starts legal proceedings without firm evidence, willy nilly.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #5065
    pearcider
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭pearcider


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I think Lincoln and Trueman might have something to say about that ridiculous claim.



    Fixed that for you. He was arrested, charged, tried in court and found guilty. I get it, you Trump fans hate to see decisions go against your golden boys but this (along with Trumps impeachment) is a fact.

    Sorry this coming from the poster who supported the Mullahs in Iran in a thread recently even suggesting the US was to blame for shooting down the airliner over Tehran. You have zero credibility to any sane observer.

    Also Roger Stone was the victim of the same coup attempt and witch hunt of Trump instigated by the errand boys of the corrupt Washington DC elite typified by creeps like Strok and Mueller. Anti American scum who still can’t accept that the wicked witch of the west Hilary Clinton lost the election because she was a soulless globalist robot with less empathy than Leo varadkar.


  • #5066
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Why do you keep dodging the question?

    If there is proof of a crime why hasn't there been arrests?

    Edit: I'm neither left nor Democrat, I'm just an interested observer of American politics, especially the shìt show that has taken place since Trump was elected.
    You should have shown interest when Obama was in charge... talk about ultra sh!t show!

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #5067
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,866 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    notobtuse wrote: »
    What, like have Trump go to each of their houses and make a citizen's arrest?


    Sigh...its like talking to an bunch of pre teens that cant concentrate.

    If I know of a crime and have evidence I would go to the police, produce my evidence and have the person arrested/charged/convicted/jailed. If the Reps have such evidence then they should do the same, why do you think they have not done this?
    I think Barr will eventually get around to it. He's not Shifty Schiff who starts legal proceedings without firm evidence, willy nilly.

    What's with the childish names? Do.you think that makes you sound +/- intelligent when you throw that into a sentence?


  • #5068
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,866 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    pearcider wrote: »
    Sorry this coming from the poster who supported the Mullahs in Iran in a thread recently even suggesting the US was to blame for shooting down the airliner over Tehran. You have zero credibility to any sane observer.

    1, do you think Trump is a better president and did more for minorities than Lincoln or Trueman?

    2, please show evidence that I "supported the Mullahs"

    3, Please show me the post where I suggested "the US was to blame for shooting down the airliner over Tehran."
    Also Roger Stone was the victim of the same coup attempt and witch hunt of Trump instigated by the errand boys of the corrupt Washington DC elite typified by creeps like Strok and Mueller. Anti American scum who still can’t accept that the wicked witch of the west Hilary Clinton lost the election because she was a soulless globalist robot with less empathy than Leo varadkar.

    So his trial and conviction are wrong? The trial that took place in court with witnesses and evidence? Can you show why this is a wrongful conviction or are you just pìssed off because yet ANOTHER one of Trumps "best people" has been found guilty and faces jail time?

    Drain the swamp indeed.


  • #5069
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,866 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    notobtuse wrote: »
    You should have shown interest when Obama was in charge... talk about ultra sh!t show!

    I did, I was very vocal in my disgust at the use of drones. Maybe fact check before jumping in feet 1st.


  • #5070
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    What's with the childish names? Do.you think that makes you sound +/- intelligent when you throw that into a sentence?

    Not at all. It’s an age-old political tradition that denotes something about a politician that people can easily remember and correlate. Examples... Honest Abe, The Iron Lady, Tricky Dick, Teflon Tony, The British Bulldog, The Governator… And it’s quite effective. You should know this.

    If nothing else, Trump is a great marketer.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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  • #5071
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I did, I was very vocal in my disgust at the use of drones. Maybe fact check before jumping in feet 1st.
    Drones??? That was it????

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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