General Election TV debates

Jim Root · 05-02-2020 10:11AM

My untainted observations before I read the thread as a party agnostic voter

- any idea's I may have had of throwing a bone to SF sre totally over now due to ML being caught out on homelessness in the North figures, Paul Quinn and nonsensical climate change policy. She blew it and would have been better off not attending at all. she didn't come across as trustworthy.

-Leo, albeit uncomfortable, was very well briefed, remained statesmanlike and delivered some classic rebuttals - the John Delaney line and Mary Lou regretting joining FF were fantastic. He is clearly a weak leader though and was rightly pulled up on the various FG messers like Bailey running rings around him.

-Micheal, clearly a skilled and able politician but struck me as stale & with too much blood on his hands for the failures of the past. This "for the good of the nation" rhetoric justifying maintaining the S&C deal is a nonesense and he knows it.

So no clear winner, but Mary Lou definitely came out the worst.

ps. I think it's outrageous that Miriam was allowed to be in the hotseat given her brother is running for FF.

Sir Oxman · 05-02-2020 10:11AM

Deleted User wrote: »

On paper I'm well paid and so, not eligible for the help to buy scheme. In reality, after rent and bills I've a lean couple of weeks ahead of me until payday when the cycle can begin again.

And this is why FG will get a whacking and so should FF.

BarryD2 · 05-02-2020 10:17AM

MaryLou is massive

Seriously she's very able at this type of PR work on TV, quick thinking, adaptable and human. A good front person who can disguise and dissemble on whatever skeletons are in the cupboard. Not just these debates but also previous ones like the Repeal 8th session.

I did think one of the funnier moments last night came when she was asked about SF policy on the environment and in particular what was meant by 'massive investment' in public EV chargers. All MaryLou could repeat was 'massive', 'it'll be massive' etc. Unfortunately Miriam let her off the hook and didn't tie her to even a rough figure like €1m or €5b or whatever. No, we're expected to just accept 'massive'

piplip87 · 05-02-2020 10:17AM

The IRA is not ancient history though. Pearse MC Cauley got a hero's welcome from SF when released in 2009.

This is a guy who was part of a gang that murdered a member of the Gardai. The woman who he started a relationship with, married and had kids with, while he was in prison is now looking to become a lawmaker......

When the IRA is brought up its ancient history even though SF campaigned for his release at the same time as the economic crash which isn't ancient history ?

Hypocrisy all over SF and the electorate will wake up to this come next Saturday and Shinnerbots will be on here/Facebook screaming about media bias, screaming about the government while sitting in Thier council houses, claiming the dole screaming about how the government does nothing for them even though it's raring Thier kid for them.....

Sir Oxman · 05-02-2020 10:19AM

piplip87 wrote: »

The IRA is not ancient history though. Pearse MC Cauley got a hero's welcome from SF when released in 2009.

This is a guy who was part of a gang that murdered a member of the Gardai. The woman who he started a relationship with, married and had kids with, while he was in prison is now looking to become a lawmaker......

When the IRA is brought up its ancient history even though SF campaigned for his release at the same time as the economic crash which isn't ancient history ?

Hypocrisy all over SF and the electorate will wake up to this come next Saturday and Shinnerbots will be on here/Facebook screaming about media bias, screaming about the government while sitting in Thier council houses, claiming the dole screaming about how the government does nothing for them even though it's raring Thier kid for them.....

..And that's where you fall down.

C__MC · 05-02-2020 10:20AM

I think Thursdays debate will be hugely interesting

Fianna Fail have a weak front bench behind micheal martin

Coveney and Doherty are very strong politicians in my view, so they really have a chance to enhance what their party is offering

gormdubhgorm · 05-02-2020 10:21AM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Wow, I was clearly watching something else. I thought Mary Lou came off well. With the exception of the mansplaining comment. I winced at that.

No, she didnt go into detail. SF never really do.

But it was the same from the other two, you did nothing for 9 years - we were cleaning up after you back and forth.

At the end of the day FG and FF have made a mess of things. And the only thing they united on last night was bashing Mary Lou.

I think you are showing a level of bias, here take away the party politics and just listen to the debate.
As one of the neutral analysts put in after the debate Mary Lou obfuscated and waffled. It was not just the fact that she did not go into detail. By the way never being able to go into detail is hardly a good thing is it?

FG and FF did not cause the damage to SF last night Mary Lou did when being stuck for words and failing to answer questions.

optogirl · 05-02-2020 10:22AM

Jim Root wrote: »

My untainted observations before I read the thread as a party agnostic voter

- any idea's I may have had of throwing a bone to SF sre totally over now due to ML being caught out on homelessness in the North figures, Paul Quinn and nonsensical climate change policy. She blew it and would have been better off not attending at all. she didn't come across as trustworthy.

-Leo, albeit uncomfortable, was very well briefed, remained statesmanlike and delivered some classic rebuttals - the John Delaney line and Mary Lou regretting joining FF were fantastic. He is clearly a weak leader though and was rightly pulled up on the various FG messers like Bailey running rings around him.

-Micheal, clearly a skilled and able politician but struck me as stale & with too much blood on his hands for the failures of the past. This "for the good of the nation" rhetoric justifying maintaining the S&C deal is a nonesense and he knows it.

So no clear winner, but Mary Lou definitely came out the worst.

ps. I think it's outrageous that Miriam was allowed to be in the hotseat given her brother is running for FF.

The John Delaney line was cringeworthy. Especially considering Leo was Minister for Sport during JD's tenure.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 10:23AM

Faugheen wrote: »

To say ‘the RA weren’t involved because I spoke to them and they told me they werent’ - well can you tell the PSNI or the Gardai who you spoke to so they can decide for themselves?

According to the IMC the IRA were not involved at an organisational level.

In May, the Independent Monitoring Commission found that the IRA organisation did not kill Paul Quinn although "local members or former members" of the republican group were involved in his murder.

Not sure what more can be said about it. But carry on, it is clear that no matter what was said, holes would have been found.

It is also clear that to a large extent this attack stuff is not working.

Calhoun · 05-02-2020 10:23AM

I would say McGrath would hold his own both FF and FG have some liabilities when it comes to front bench.

Sir Oxman · 05-02-2020 10:23AM

C__MC wrote: »

I think Thursdays debate will be hugely interesting

Fianna Fail have a weak front bench behind micheal martin

Coveney and Doherty are very strong politicians in my view, so they really have a chance to enhance what their party is offering

I thought Thursday's is for Labour, SD, Green, SPBP and Aontu?

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 10:24AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

As one of the neutral analysts put in after the debate Mary Lou obfuscated and waffled. .

They all did this. A lot. :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 10:24AM

Sir Oxman wrote: »

I thought Thursday's is for Labour, SD, Green, SPBP and Aontu?

Finance ministers on 6 One news tonight.

BarryD2 · 05-02-2020 10:26AM

piplip87 wrote: »

The IRA is not ancient history though. Pearse MC Cauley got a hero's welcome from SF when released in 2009.

Forget 2009, think 2019 and the Sinn Féin Ard Fhéis. Mary Lou speech broadcast across the country sending warm wishes to John Downey, convicted of Hyde Park bombing. https://www.donegaldaily.com/2019/12/18/high-court-rules-john-downey-was-responsible-for-ira-bombing/

That's the true nature of the party and it's members, what they want to hear etc.

But voters in this Republic???????

markodaly · 05-02-2020 10:30AM

McMurphy wrote: »

Is there a leadership coup stirring within FG?

I see the Indo are running with a headline hinting at one.

Read the article. No, there isnt.

But Noonan also says this.

He described Sinn Féin's finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty as a good debater, but also called him "arrogant" and "overconfident".

"He's not cautious enough for finance," he said.

Mr Noonan questioned Sinn Féin's suitability for office, citing how former Sinn Féin finance minister in Stormont Máirtín Ó Muilleoir sought permission from an unelected party member to sign off on a controversial renewable energy scheme in the North.

"He was looking for permission to make a decision, and he was the finance minister. Do you think I was ringing some 5'8 in west Limerick to get permission to do things in the budget?" he asked.

gormdubhgorm · 05-02-2020 10:31AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They all did this. A lot. :rolleyes:

Not as much as Mary it was a bad show from her. Not very statesman/woman like. I would say Pearse Doherty fans in SF are thinking it is thier fella's job shortly.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 10:39AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not as much as Mary it was a bad show from her. Not very statesman/woman like. I would say Pearse Doherty fans in SF are thinking it is thier fella's job shortly.

I'll take that as a biased position given your posting here.

My own view is biased too, but I accept that at various points they all blustered and obfuscated. Michael Martin being the worst culprit imo.

He has separated himself from everything bad that has happened in this country in the last 20 years.

markodaly · 05-02-2020 10:39AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'IRA' were not involved in Paul Quinn's murder as an organisation. FACT, no whatabout's. The independent international agency tasked to monitor such things The IMC, said so clearly at the time. They said, some of those involved were members of the IRA but it had no sanction at an organisational level. They also said that it was a local dispute about smuggling.

Ah good ol Francie. Covering up acts of barbarism from their Provo friends yet again. Guess Kingsmill was an accident as well.
If the IRA was not involved, why is SF implicated? Why did Connor Murphy have inside information on who was who? Did he go to the Gardai or PSNI with this information?

Put simply it lifts the lid on what many of the PIRA members were like. Killers with no remorse.
Remember, no one has been convicted of the murder of Paul Quinn.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 10:40AM

markodaly wrote: »

Read the article. No, there isnt.

But Noonan also says this.

Did he talk about the time he had to send his budget to every finance minister in Europe before he presented it to us?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/18/ireland-budget-germany-leak

marieholmfan · 05-02-2020 10:41AM

markodaly wrote: »

Ah good ol Francie. Covering up acts of barbarism from their Provo friends yet again. Guess Kingsmill was an accident as well.
If the IRA was not involved, why is SF implicated? Why did Connor Murphy have inside information on who was who? Did he go to the Gardai or PSNI with this information?

Put simply it lifts the lid on what many of the PIRA members were like. Killers with no remorse.
Remember, no one has been convicted of the murder of Paul Quinn.

Kingsmill was carried out by the South Armagh Republican Action Force not the IRA.
Kingsmill stopped the Glennane gang.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 10:42AM

markodaly wrote: »

Ah good ol Francie. Covering up acts of barbarism from their Provo friends yet again. Guess Kingsmill was an accident as well.
If the IRA was not involved, why is SF implicated? Why did Connor Murphy have inside information on who was who? Did he go to the Gardai or PSNI with this information?

Put simply it lifts the lid on what many of the PIRA members were like. Killers with no remorse.
Remember, no one has been convicted of the murder of Paul Quinn.

Mark...for the IMC to make the decision it did, they had to have known who was involved, where did they get that information, intelligence? From the PSNI, who also know.

I can assure you, being a local, that everyone knows who was involved.

markodaly · 05-02-2020 10:44AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did he talk about the time he had to send his budget to every finance minister in Europe before he presented it to us?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/18/ireland-budget-germany-leak

As per the terms of the bailout no, which was in part because of the bank guarantee, which SF voted for.

THen again SF has advocated a No vote for EVERY SINGLE EU treaty ever to come before the Irish people, but now because of Brexit, you swear they are the most europhile group ever.

:D

SF really stands for the 'protest party'.

markodaly · 05-02-2020 10:46AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I can assure you, being a local, that everyone knows who was involved.

Astonishing, yet these SF members are free men today, never to see the inside of a court room.
Why is that I wonder?

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 10:51AM

markodaly wrote: »

As per the terms of the bailout no, which was in part because of the bank guarantee, which SF voted for.

THen again SF has advocated a No vote for EVERY SINGLE EU treaty ever to come before the Irish people, but now because of Brexit, you swear they are the most europhile group ever. :D

SF really stands for the 'protest party'.

And we pivot to something else.

Good man Mark!

Faugheen · 05-02-2020 10:51AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Mark...for the IMC to make the decision it did, they had to have known who was involved, where did they get that information, intelligence? From the PSNI, who also know.

I can assure you, being a local, that everyone knows who was involved.

Then why won’t Conor Murphy tell these members of the IRA - that he claimed he spoke to - to speak to the PSNI or the Gardai?

Also, this ‘the organisation wasn’t, just some members’ stick doesn’t make people go ‘oh ok then’.

thequarefellow · 05-02-2020 10:51AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did he talk about the time he had to send his budget to every finance minister in Europe before he presented it to us?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/18/ireland-budget-germany-leak

I never knew of this. What a f***ing hypocrite Michael Noonan is

markodaly · 05-02-2020 10:52AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And we pivot to something else. Good man Mark!

Pivot?

You, my good sir, mentioned something that happened 7 years ago, that has NOTHING to do with this GE. But give yourself a pat on the back anyway.

Whelo79 · 05-02-2020 10:54AM

Two things puzzle me from last night's debate and MLM's so called two 'big slip ups'

1. On the SCC. She clearly stated she was in favour of our judicial system and that the SCC required reviewing to see if it is fit for purpose. Seeing as we are the only country in Europe with such a court and the fact that Amnesty International and The UN among others call for it to be abolished, what exactly is MLM being lambasted about here?

2. On the Paul Quinn issue, by the hysteria in here you would think SF are in some way responsible for the horrible death he suffered and MLM was somehow tricked into taking responsibility for it. The issue being discussed is not directly about the murder of PQ but about a statement made by Conor Murphy. This is actually a Conor Murphy issue, he made a statement 12-13 years ago regarding PQ alleged involvement in criminality prior to his murder. CM recently advised MLM that he did not make that statement (which she recounted in the Dobson interview) Last night MLM corrected this and said CM had in fact made the statement and he retracts the claim and would apologise to the family of PQ. Only after this correction of the facts did Miriam bring up the Dobson interview. So is the issue here that a politician incorrectly recounted a statement he made from 12 years, or that maybe he purposefully lied about a statement and got caught out? Imagine, a politician trying to deny they said something when in fact they actually had said it. It happens every day if the week! It happened several times last night in the debate.

I don't think these are the big MLM/SF have been exposed moments some people would like to think they are. I still think they will drop in the polls slightly, 18-21% and that both FF and FG will take a higher percentage of first preference votes.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 10:54AM

markodaly wrote: »

Astonishing, yet these SF members are free men today, never to see the inside of a court room.
Why is that I wonder?

Well you seem to want people who weren't there to give evidence against them.

You want to ignore what the IMC said about the case (You know those people who investigated the case) that it was 'a local dispute about smuggling'.

Who said they were members of 'SF' by the way? Any back up on that?

markodaly · 05-02-2020 10:55AM

Faugheen wrote: »

Then why won’t Conor Murphy tell these members of the IRA - that he claimed he spoke to - to speak to the PSNI or the Gardai?

Also, this ‘the organisation wasn’t, just some members’ stick doesn’t make people go ‘oh ok then’.

You see, people in these communities know who these men are. Its the same with the Quinn kidnapping. The Provos are now hired goons to do drity work, but is the ordinary Joe Soap going to go against the PIRA and SF?

These guys still strike fear into some communities.

Francie just admitted that he and everyone knows who was behind this murder. Yet not one charge was brought forward.
This tells its own story, and people want these people in government? :rolleyes:

General Election TV debates

Comments