General Election TV debates

Mortelaro · 05-02-2020 08:43AM

smurgen wrote: »

It's incredible insensitive to feign outstrage at certain victims and not others. Seems like FG can celebrate certain murderers as long as the victim is ordinary Irish folk.

Why didn't MLM use that tack last night or on Dobson?
You know why
Because it wouldn't wash

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 08:47AM

Necro wrote: »

Francie you seem incredibly rattled today, no smilies or anything in your posts.

I mean can you just admit that Mary Lou's stumble over the SCC and Paul Quinn were gaffes instead of moving the goalposts everytime someone brings it up

who is moving goalposts?

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 08:49AM

Mortelaro wrote: »

Why didn't MLM use that tack last night or on Dobson?
You know why
Because it wouldn't wash

Paul Quinn is in the debate because an RTE presenter took umbrage at a from SF MEP saying exactly that (Lynn Boylan)

realdanbreen · 05-02-2020 08:50AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'IRA' were not involved in Paul Quinn's murder as an organisation. FACT, no whatabout's. The independent international agency tasked to monitor such things The IMC, said so clearly at the time. They said, some of those involved were members of the IRA but it had no sanction at an organisational level. They also said that it was a local dispute about smuggling.

You know something and I'm being serious. Had Mary Lou just said what you have posted above then she would not be the laughing stock that she is this morning. In one way things might not be too bad for SF because her clusterfuk of answers on Paul Quinn and the SCC detracted from SF's comic book manifesto.

realdanbreen · 05-02-2020 08:55AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

. They said, some of those involved were members of the IRA but it had no sanction at an organisational level. .

SF said something similar after Jerry McCabe and Ben O'Sullivan were riddled with bullets in Adare. And that was after first saying the Provos were not involved.

road_high · 05-02-2020 08:56AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Lol - Still laughing at you calling it "a draw".

If ever a clearer sign was needed that MLM had her arse handed to her.

She was poor. Outside of the cheap rehearsed quips ( like mansplaining- if the others had said the same to her there’d be national uproar) there was nothing to suggest this is a person that could run the country. What was obvious again tonight is opponents need have no fear of her and debates expose the SF lies and disturbing policies very publicly and in a way they can’t control or manipulate

Mortelaro · 05-02-2020 08:58AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Paul Quinn is in the debate because an RTE presenter took umbrage at a from SF MEP saying exactly that (Lynn Boylan)

You don't know that and I think that's unlikely.
It's also another thing to be honest if said last night that wouldn't fly

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 09:02AM

realdanbreen wrote: »

SF said something similar after Jerry McCabe and Ben O'Sullivan were riddled with bullets in Adare. And that was after first saying the Provos were not involved.

If you wish to dispute the IMC, I'll leave you to it.

The facts are that is what they said.

Edgware · 05-02-2020 09:04AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Paul Quinn is in the debate because an RTE presenter took umbrage at a from SF MEP saying exactly that (Lynn Boylan)

Correction.
Ex M.E.P.
Another bluffer found out and dealt with by the electorate

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 09:07AM

Edgware wrote: »

Correction.
Ex M.E.P.
Another bluffer found out and dealt with by the electorate

Sorry, that 'from' was meant to say 'former'.

Faugheen · 05-02-2020 09:11AM

Question:

People who are talking about FF and FG using Paul Quinn’s murder etc etc.

Did either of them even mention Paul Quinn last night? The only reason why he’s in the news is because his mother is trying to get justice for him and Mary Lou McDonald lied about what Conor Murphy said and did in relation to it.

To say ‘the RA weren’t involved because I spoke to them and they told me they werent’ - well can you tell the PSNI or the Gardai who you spoke to so they can decide for themselves?

SF’s vigilante past has been badly exposed and it’s clear that it still present within their party.

Many people in the ABC1 polling category will not take well to something like that.

Jim Root · 05-02-2020 09:11AM

My untainted observations before I read the thread as a party agnostic voter

- any idea's I may have had of throwing a bone to SF sre totally over now due to ML being caught out on homelessness in the North figures, Paul Quinn and nonsensical climate change policy. She blew it and would have been better off not attending at all. she didn't come across as trustworthy.

-Leo, albeit uncomfortable, was very well briefed, remained statesmanlike and delivered some classic rebuttals - the John Delaney line and Mary Lou regretting joining FF were fantastic. He is clearly a weak leader though and was rightly pulled up on the various FG messers like Bailey running rings around him.

-Micheal, clearly a skilled and able politician but struck me as stale & with too much blood on his hands for the failures of the past. This "for the good of the nation" rhetoric justifying maintaining the S&C deal is a nonesense and he knows it.

So no clear winner, but Mary Lou definitely came out the worst.

ps. I think it's outrageous that Miriam was allowed to be in the hotseat given her brother is running for FF.

Sir Oxman · 05-02-2020 09:11AM

Deleted User wrote: »

On paper I'm well paid and so, not eligible for the help to buy scheme. In reality, after rent and bills I've a lean couple of weeks ahead of me until payday when the cycle can begin again.

And this is why FG will get a whacking and so should FF.

BarryD2 · 05-02-2020 09:17AM

MaryLou is massive

Seriously she's very able at this type of PR work on TV, quick thinking, adaptable and human. A good front person who can disguise and dissemble on whatever skeletons are in the cupboard. Not just these debates but also previous ones like the Repeal 8th session.

I did think one of the funnier moments last night came when she was asked about SF policy on the environment and in particular what was meant by 'massive investment' in public EV chargers. All MaryLou could repeat was 'massive', 'it'll be massive' etc. Unfortunately Miriam let her off the hook and didn't tie her to even a rough figure like €1m or €5b or whatever. No, we're expected to just accept 'massive'

piplip87 · 05-02-2020 09:17AM

The IRA is not ancient history though. Pearse MC Cauley got a hero's welcome from SF when released in 2009.

This is a guy who was part of a gang that murdered a member of the Gardai. The woman who he started a relationship with, married and had kids with, while he was in prison is now looking to become a lawmaker......

When the IRA is brought up its ancient history even though SF campaigned for his release at the same time as the economic crash which isn't ancient history ?

Hypocrisy all over SF and the electorate will wake up to this come next Saturday and Shinnerbots will be on here/Facebook screaming about media bias, screaming about the government while sitting in Thier council houses, claiming the dole screaming about how the government does nothing for them even though it's raring Thier kid for them.....

Sir Oxman · 05-02-2020 09:19AM

piplip87 wrote: »

The IRA is not ancient history though. Pearse MC Cauley got a hero's welcome from SF when released in 2009.

This is a guy who was part of a gang that murdered a member of the Gardai. The woman who he started a relationship with, married and had kids with, while he was in prison is now looking to become a lawmaker......

When the IRA is brought up its ancient history even though SF campaigned for his release at the same time as the economic crash which isn't ancient history ?

Hypocrisy all over SF and the electorate will wake up to this come next Saturday and Shinnerbots will be on here/Facebook screaming about media bias, screaming about the government while sitting in Thier council houses, claiming the dole screaming about how the government does nothing for them even though it's raring Thier kid for them.....

..And that's where you fall down.

C__MC · 05-02-2020 09:20AM

I think Thursdays debate will be hugely interesting

Fianna Fail have a weak front bench behind micheal martin

Coveney and Doherty are very strong politicians in my view, so they really have a chance to enhance what their party is offering

gormdubhgorm · 05-02-2020 09:21AM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Wow, I was clearly watching something else. I thought Mary Lou came off well. With the exception of the mansplaining comment. I winced at that.

No, she didnt go into detail. SF never really do.

But it was the same from the other two, you did nothing for 9 years - we were cleaning up after you back and forth.

At the end of the day FG and FF have made a mess of things. And the only thing they united on last night was bashing Mary Lou.

I think you are showing a level of bias, here take away the party politics and just listen to the debate.
As one of the neutral analysts put in after the debate Mary Lou obfuscated and waffled. It was not just the fact that she did not go into detail. By the way never being able to go into detail is hardly a good thing is it?

FG and FF did not cause the damage to SF last night Mary Lou did when being stuck for words and failing to answer questions.

optogirl · 05-02-2020 09:22AM

Jim Root wrote: »

My untainted observations before I read the thread as a party agnostic voter

- any idea's I may have had of throwing a bone to SF sre totally over now due to ML being caught out on homelessness in the North figures, Paul Quinn and nonsensical climate change policy. She blew it and would have been better off not attending at all. she didn't come across as trustworthy.

-Leo, albeit uncomfortable, was very well briefed, remained statesmanlike and delivered some classic rebuttals - the John Delaney line and Mary Lou regretting joining FF were fantastic. He is clearly a weak leader though and was rightly pulled up on the various FG messers like Bailey running rings around him.

-Micheal, clearly a skilled and able politician but struck me as stale & with too much blood on his hands for the failures of the past. This "for the good of the nation" rhetoric justifying maintaining the S&C deal is a nonesense and he knows it.

So no clear winner, but Mary Lou definitely came out the worst.

ps. I think it's outrageous that Miriam was allowed to be in the hotseat given her brother is running for FF.

The John Delaney line was cringeworthy. Especially considering Leo was Minister for Sport during JD's tenure.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 09:23AM

Faugheen wrote: »

To say ‘the RA weren’t involved because I spoke to them and they told me they werent’ - well can you tell the PSNI or the Gardai who you spoke to so they can decide for themselves?

According to the IMC the IRA were not involved at an organisational level.

In May, the Independent Monitoring Commission found that the IRA organisation did not kill Paul Quinn although "local members or former members" of the republican group were involved in his murder.

Not sure what more can be said about it. But carry on, it is clear that no matter what was said, holes would have been found.

It is also clear that to a large extent this attack stuff is not working.

Calhoun · 05-02-2020 09:23AM

I would say McGrath would hold his own both FF and FG have some liabilities when it comes to front bench.

Sir Oxman · 05-02-2020 09:23AM

C__MC wrote: »

I think Thursdays debate will be hugely interesting

Fianna Fail have a weak front bench behind micheal martin

Coveney and Doherty are very strong politicians in my view, so they really have a chance to enhance what their party is offering

I thought Thursday's is for Labour, SD, Green, SPBP and Aontu?

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 09:24AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

As one of the neutral analysts put in after the debate Mary Lou obfuscated and waffled. .

They all did this. A lot. :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 09:24AM

Sir Oxman wrote: »

I thought Thursday's is for Labour, SD, Green, SPBP and Aontu?

Finance ministers on 6 One news tonight.

BarryD2 · 05-02-2020 09:26AM

piplip87 wrote: »

The IRA is not ancient history though. Pearse MC Cauley got a hero's welcome from SF when released in 2009.

Forget 2009, think 2019 and the Sinn Féin Ard Fhéis. Mary Lou speech broadcast across the country sending warm wishes to John Downey, convicted of Hyde Park bombing. https://www.donegaldaily.com/2019/12/18/high-court-rules-john-downey-was-responsible-for-ira-bombing/

That's the true nature of the party and it's members, what they want to hear etc.

But voters in this Republic???????

markodaly · 05-02-2020 09:30AM

McMurphy wrote: »

Is there a leadership coup stirring within FG?

I see the Indo are running with a headline hinting at one.

Read the article. No, there isnt.

But Noonan also says this.

He described Sinn Féin's finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty as a good debater, but also called him "arrogant" and "overconfident".

"He's not cautious enough for finance," he said.

Mr Noonan questioned Sinn Féin's suitability for office, citing how former Sinn Féin finance minister in Stormont Máirtín Ó Muilleoir sought permission from an unelected party member to sign off on a controversial renewable energy scheme in the North.

"He was looking for permission to make a decision, and he was the finance minister. Do you think I was ringing some 5'8 in west Limerick to get permission to do things in the budget?" he asked.

gormdubhgorm · 05-02-2020 09:31AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They all did this. A lot. :rolleyes:

Not as much as Mary it was a bad show from her. Not very statesman/woman like. I would say Pearse Doherty fans in SF are thinking it is thier fella's job shortly.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 09:39AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not as much as Mary it was a bad show from her. Not very statesman/woman like. I would say Pearse Doherty fans in SF are thinking it is thier fella's job shortly.

I'll take that as a biased position given your posting here.

My own view is biased too, but I accept that at various points they all blustered and obfuscated. Michael Martin being the worst culprit imo.

He has separated himself from everything bad that has happened in this country in the last 20 years.

markodaly · 05-02-2020 09:39AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'IRA' were not involved in Paul Quinn's murder as an organisation. FACT, no whatabout's. The independent international agency tasked to monitor such things The IMC, said so clearly at the time. They said, some of those involved were members of the IRA but it had no sanction at an organisational level. They also said that it was a local dispute about smuggling.

Ah good ol Francie. Covering up acts of barbarism from their Provo friends yet again. Guess Kingsmill was an accident as well.
If the IRA was not involved, why is SF implicated? Why did Connor Murphy have inside information on who was who? Did he go to the Gardai or PSNI with this information?

Put simply it lifts the lid on what many of the PIRA members were like. Killers with no remorse.
Remember, no one has been convicted of the murder of Paul Quinn.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 09:40AM

markodaly wrote: »

Read the article. No, there isnt.

But Noonan also says this.

Did he talk about the time he had to send his budget to every finance minister in Europe before he presented it to us?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/18/ireland-budget-germany-leak

General Election TV debates

Comments