Cork developments

I am not against it as an interim measure/ feasibility even - if you need to prove out demand/ route etc. But I would be strongly against it substituting for a light rail in Cork. There are lot of reasons a rail system is different to a bus, which this basically is, most notably speed, and the ability to, at least some of the time, avoid traffic. The LUAS in Dublin for the majority of the run from Brides Glen into town, Tallaght to town, Broombridge to town, is segregated from traffic as it should be, and covers big distances in very short time compared to road traffic. In an old city centre there are points where they share a road space but rail largely has priority in these cases. Thats very different to a glorified bus stopping at tailbacks in traffic on Sarfield road and pretending its a tram. Using that to determine if there is demand might actually hurt the case for light rail if people see the obvious that this is not a time saver and dont opt in.
If they want to surface the Blackrock greenway and close the marina to traffic and let this yoke blast along at full speed there it might go some way towards the end goal, but otherwise it couldnt be said to be the same thing at all

D'Agger wrote: »

Are there plans for improved bus infrastructure around Glanmire - particularly with the Ballinglanna development going in? Looking at that area currently and given it's part of the city now I'm wondering what kind of development can expect to be seen in the next few years.

CMATS includes BusConnects improvements around Glanmire including the new Ballinglanna area. When that might actually come to fruition though is a different topic altogether!

From looking at the BusConnects high level plan on CMATS there is proposed to be a transport hub at the proposed P&R at Dunkettle. This hub will have Cobh/Midleton rail line as well as bus routes to the city centre and East Cork, a route covering Glanmire area, a Little Island orbital, a northern city orbital via Mayfield, Blackpool etc., a southern city orbital via the tunnel covering Mahon Point, Douglas, CUH and CIT (expansion of the current 219 basically).

Sounds good in theory. But will probably never happen.

Flesh Gorden wrote: »

Glanmire is quickly on it's way to being the new Carrigaline/Ballincollig. Just with much tighter country roads on every approach.

an extra sliproad off the M8 at Brooklodge or somwhere would really open it up

Shedite27 wrote: »

an extra sliproad off the M8 at Brooklodge or somwhere would really open it up

Or it would just bring more traffic into an area not suited to it. More roads does not improve traffic. This is true the world over yet remains at the core of transport policy in Ireland.

D'Agger wrote: »

My concern is that I'm looking at a place near Ballinglanna but it would be a 15 minute walk down roads with no footpaths potentially - the roads, as has been mentioned are narrow which don't suit bus routes.

This will all change very soon, feel free to drop me a PM.
See link to original design below. Updated design and CPO are in process with planning in to ABP.
https://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/default/files/2018-05/SHT_20_GLAM_CT_009.1 - 009.6_0.pdf

Shedite27 wrote: »

an extra sliproad off the M8 at Brooklodge or somwhere would really open it up

This was discussed about 20 years ago and rejected as it would create a rat run between the M8 and the rest of the Northside. There is very little development land close to this area. It's policy to keep development inside the bypass to prevent urban sprawl, and most of the sites close to this proposed interchange have already been developed.

It's also a third interchange, within a short distance, on an interurban route; which needs to be kept clear of commuter traffic in order to continue to be effective.

The best way to open up the Glanmire area is to improve public transport and public transport infrastructure, as others have indicated.

Hans got there before me.

namloc1980 wrote: »

The stupid glorified bus is being talked about again.

.

Looks like a cheap childs toy in a poor Photoshop effort.

whisky_galore wrote: »

Looks like a cheap childs toy in a poor Photoshop effort.

That's actually a shot from a test track in China, but don't let me stop your "Keeping up with the Dubliners" syndrome.

Fact is that light rail will do nothing to solve the transport issues in Cork that can't be solved with BRT, no matter what some people in this thread may be dreaming up.

Both light rail and BRT will require draconian traffic control measures to keep obstructions from clueless motorists (translation: 95% of them) to a minimum and to prevent any trams or buses from being stuck in traffic. This in itself is pretty much an impossibility given the mentality that Cork City Council has displayed over the last few years. The only way to circumvent this would be to tunnel under the city centre, which would be a nightmare given the ground composition, just ask Hamburg about the U4 extension to Landungsbrücken.

Then there's the effect that construction will have on the city centre, which would mean ripping open most of the city centre streets for months to install tracks, signalling equipment, power supply, etc. Given the screaming and hollering by certain city traders about even a small three hour partial closure of Patrick Street, any longer closure is going to be a non-starter, simply due to the intransigence and ignorance of certain locals.

Like it or not, light rail is not going to happen, and it isn't necessary. BRT will do all that is needed at significantly lower costs with a lot less disruption. But it doesn't stroke the Cork ego enough I guess...

thomil wrote: »

But it doesn't stroke the Cork ego enough I guess...

Liked the rest of your post but no need for this. Most people on here want what will work best, not what gives the most prestige.

Your thoughts on disruption, protestations etc are spot on.

But the legacy tram alignment could (and should) be reused.

Shedite27 wrote: »

Yeah but there's no way of getting a bus lane into Riverstown with the width of the village. IF it allows a more frequent bus route to an area crying out for public transport it would make sense.

It'd be the 3rd exit within 6k, Cashel manages the same without too many problem. And one of those 3 at Dunkettle will be a free flow soon anyway.

Glanmire has changed a lot in 20 years, they only got the Community College 15 years ago. Just because it didn't make sense back then isnt a reason to shoot it down.

That Community College was finished in '96...I think you're missing a decade or so!

I totally disagree with the use of roads to "solve traffic issues" for Glanmire.
Riverstown and Glanmire may need a bus lane but they also need:

1
To remove the rat running traffic. I know many people rat running from North Cork through Glanmire and Upper Glanmire in the mornings - these need to be removed ASAP.

2
To provide adequate footpaths.
These were identified as needing to be completed "before Ballinglanna could open" according to ABP who approved the scheme and didn't give a fiddlers thereafter. Poor footpaths means people won't leave their child walk to/from school.

3
To provide an active transport route from Dunkettle through Glanmire to Riverstown, via John O'Callaghan park, as per plans. This would cost an extremely small amount of money and would hoover up another few % of people.

4
Ban on cars without blue badges stopping outside the schools on the Hazelwood road. These block traffic for several hours every day. This has been done in Fingal, it should also be done in Glanmire.

5
Tivoli dual carriageway to be single lane plus bus lane.

6
Right turn lane in Glanmire (underway)

7
Right turn lane at Hazelwood (underway)

Basically, as far as I'm concerned the idea of using roads to resolve traffic in Glanmire (74% car use) is like using petrol to put out a fire.

thomil wrote: »

That's actually a shot from a test track in China, but don't let me stop your "Keeping up with the Dubliners" syndrome.

Fact is that light rail will do nothing to solve the transport issues in Cork that can't be solved with BRT, no matter what some people in this thread may be dreaming up.

Both light rail and BRT will require draconian traffic control measures to keep obstructions from clueless motorists (translation: 95% of them) to a minimum and to prevent any trams or buses from being stuck in traffic. This in itself is pretty much an impossibility given the mentality that Cork City Council has displayed over the last few years. The only way to circumvent this would be to tunnel under the city centre, which would be a nightmare given the ground composition, just ask Hamburg about the U4 extension to Landungsbrücken.

Then there's the effect that construction will have on the city centre, which would mean ripping open most of the city centre streets for months to install tracks, signalling equipment, power supply, etc. Given the screaming and hollering by certain city traders about even a small three hour partial closure of Patrick Street, any longer closure is going to be a non-starter, simply due to the intransigence and ignorance of certain locals.

Like it or not, light rail is not going to happen, and it isn't necessary. BRT will do all that is needed at significantly lower costs with a lot less disruption. But it doesn't stroke the Cork ego enough I guess...

Based on the CMATS, LRT is the recommended solution for Cork and this is from the National Transport Authority. They stated this due to the planned growth of Cork under the NPF and to support future proofing of the transport system. I'd like to see your detailed analysis as to why a bus is better? Did you make a submission with such analysis?

Your argument also states that because some traders will kick off that we shouldn't do these things? Basically you're advocating that the tail wags the dog. A proper BRT would require significant road closures, construction etc. I suspect that if a bus is ultimately chosen over LRT in Cork, it'll be a complete fudge job with just a few unsegregated painted bus lanes here and there and everyone will pat themselves on the back, while traffic gets worse.

namloc1980 wrote: »

TBH if you're looking to buy somewhere with relatively decent public transport options (in Cork terms) then the Glanmire area would be one of the last places in the city I'd look at.

This is the thing - I don't need decent options - one would be fine, but I can't walk to the bus stop from the area I'm looking into at the moment because, whilst Glanmire is now part of the city, the roads are very much county standard

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

You got there before me.

No more roads for Glanmire please.
It's time for modal shift now.

Yes, Glanmire badly needs increased frequency and extra routes connecting to employment areas such as Little Island and other areas on the northside and possibly southside. Not to mention the improved infrastructure required to facilitate accurate timetables. A bus lane on the Tivoli dual carriageway would be a huge benefit.

Long term, the most likely solution will be to implement a public transport corridor through a redeveloped Tivoli docks area, accessed via a new interchange where the present Dunkettle roundabout is located.