Cities around the world that are reducing car access

Zebra3 · 22-10-2019 12:58pm

Well this genius has it solved.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LordBikebot/status/1186585591107985408

bk · 22-10-2019 9:38pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Well this genius has it solved.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LordBikebot/status/1186585591107985408

I don't agree with it, but that seems to be taken out of context.

The person was suggesting EV's be allowed to use buslanes, to help encourage the take up of EV's, which is one of the steps they took in Norway to help boost EV take up.

However it is rather controversial suggestion, it was almost too successful in Norway and there are so many EV's now that they are slowing buses down and they are looking to reverse it.

MJohnston · 23-10-2019 3:32am

They did the same with HOV lanes in California when I lived there, and while take up of EVs was very high (in the SF Bay Area mind you, home of disposable income), it just meant the lanes were utterly useless. It's not a solution for Dublin at all though, we don't need to convert to different types of cars, we need much less cars on the road.

MJohnston · 23-10-2019 3:47am

Speaking of California, I'm in SF this week and tried my first app-hired eScooter. If we added these in Dublin, combined with a massive expansion of cycle paths, it would negate so much necessity for cars and even public transport.

Thelonious Monk · 23-10-2019 8:45am

People dont want escooters in ireland they seem to think theyll bring death and chaos and people are scared to death of bikes and scooters being on footpaths for some reason. The only thing improving traffic here is the next recession.

Zebra3 · 23-10-2019 10:27am

Probably as good as place as any to throw this.

Great read.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/22/concrete-bungle-how-public-fury-stopped-the-1970s-plan-to-turn-london-into-a-motorway

Seth Brundle · 23-10-2019 10:55am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People dont want escooters in ireland they seem to think theyll bring death and chaos and people are scared to death of bikes and scooters being on footpaths for some reason. The only thing improving traffic here is the next recession.

In terms of the public not wanting escooters in Ireland, I would doubt that's the case at all. Many commuters would opt for them if they knew it was legal and safe.
As for people being scared to death of scooters and bikes being on footpaths, this is largely a view expressed by an anti-cyclist media and it blown way out of proportion. Cyclists don't choose to use a footpath for the craic anyhow.

Thelonious Monk · 23-10-2019 11:00am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

In terms of the public not wanting escooters in Ireland, I would doubt that's the case at all. Many commuters would opt for them if they knew it was legal and safe.
As for people being scared to death of scooters and bikes being on footpaths, this is largely a view expressed by an anti-cyclist media and it blown way out of proportion. Cyclists don't choose to use a footpath for the craic anyhow.

But all I see is people wanting insurance tax restrictions on anything to do with escooters. I know the Journal shouldn't be referenced but look at comments on anything like this there, or even here on boards, people just hate cyclists and escooters.
How have I managed 40 years without ever having a bike hit me on a pavement, I'm in the centre every day?

Seth Brundle · 23-10-2019 11:18am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

But all I see is people wanting insurance tax restrictions on anything to do with escooters. I know the Journal shouldn't be referenced but look at comments on anything like this there, or even here on boards, people just hate cyclists and escooters.

Who is wanting that?
All I've heard is that as per the law they are currently classed as Mechanically Propelled Vehicles and therefore require tax, insurance and NCT (and two people were recently in court for having no insurance).
However, as I understand it, the DoT are actively looking into changing the law to facilitate their use.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

How have I managed 40 years without ever having a bike hit me on a pavement, I'm in the centre every day?

Most people go about their daily business without seeing a bike on the pavement.
Most cyclists go about their daily business without cycling on the pavement.
Some people post on the internet about the terror they have endured by seeing a bike on the path yada yada yada. Most of the time it's exaggerated waffle used to tar all cyclists with the same brush :rolleyes:

keane2097 · 23-10-2019 12:21pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

But all I see is people wanting insurance tax restrictions on anything to do with escooters. I know the Journal shouldn't be referenced but look at comments on anything like this there, or even here on boards, people just hate cyclists and escooters.
How have I managed 40 years without ever having a bike hit me on a pavement, I'm in the centre every day?

I'd wager good money the same people bleating on about tax and insurance for scooters wouldn't peel themselves out of their cars if they were on fire.

Sam Russell · 23-10-2019 12:52pm

eScooters appear to manage OK as things are, but if regularised, then I think they will impact car commuters, if only for the last 5 or so kms.

They need to wear helmets, be identified by some number plate type scheme, carry some insurance, and not to travel on pavements.

I have seen a greater compliance of traffic lights be cyclist in the recent past, so that is good. I have also noticed a falling off of compliance by car drivers of bus lanes, traffic lights, etc. So you win some and lose more.

loyatemu · 23-10-2019 2:42pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

They need to wear helmets, be identified by some number plate type scheme, carry some insurance, and not to travel on pavements.

the current proposal seems to include mandatory helmets, but number plates and insurance are unlikely as they're very lightweight vehicles, and not particularly dangerous. Why introduce that level of bureaucracy, what problem are you trying to solve?

AAAAAAAAA · 23-10-2019 3:18pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

eScooters appear to manage OK as things are, but if regularised, then I think they will impact car commuters, if only for the last 5 or so kms.

They need to wear helmets, be identified by some number plate type scheme, carry some insurance, and not to travel on pavements.

Ludicrous. They are light enough to be in the same class as bicycles and should be treated alike.

cruizer101 · 23-10-2019 4:20pm

Part of the problem with e-scooter is the range of power across different models. There are models which will go 60 maybe even 80 km/h which should require insurance. But from what I've read the plans are to legalise lower power models e.g. up to 20km/h in which case insurance and registration is overkill.

Sam Russell · 23-10-2019 5:44pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Part of the problem with e-scooter is the range of power across different models. There are models which will go 60 maybe even 80 km/h which should require insurance. But from what I've read the plans are to legalise lower power models e.g. up to 20km/h in which case insurance and registration is overkill.

They need to be type approved, which should include a min and max wheel diameter, max speed, and proper lighting. They should also have a max weight.

If that is all complied with, then the insurance would be unnecessary.

John_Rambo · 23-10-2019 11:57pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Part of the problem with e-scooter is the range of power across different models. There are models which will go 60 maybe even 80 km/h which should require insurance. But from what I've read the plans are to legalise lower power models e.g. up to 20km/h in which case insurance and registration is overkill.

The e-scooters that hit those speeds aren't the stand on ones. They're Vespa styled ones with big pneumatic wheels with a sit on top configurations that you see all over China.

I don't think any of the stand on push scooters can push 60 - 80kph.

MJohnston · 24-10-2019 4:15am

If you go above 15mph on an eScooter (I think there's confusion about the term scooter, which other countries don't really use to refer to mopeds like we do, but an eScooter is the stand on skateboard type thing with a handlebar and a motor) you're very quickly going to fall off. The streets of SF are much bumpier than Dublin, but even small bumps really challenge your balance. Everything about their design keeps them slow, but steady.

Zebra3 · 25-11-2019 10:35am

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/air-pollution-doubled-on-car-free-day-in-parts-of-dublin-1.4093601

Not a good news story.

AlmightyCushion · 25-11-2019 10:53am

Zebra3 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/air-pollution-doubled-on-car-free-day-in-parts-of-dublin-1.4093601

Not a good news story.

“This was a surprising result and perhaps attributable to wind direction and speed. It was noted that there were not high winds on the day.”

The problem is they only one day's worth of data for the car free measurements. It's nowhere near enough data to get an accurate result.

MJohnston · 25-11-2019 12:19pm

Indeed, seems deeply unscientific to run a measurement once and call it an accurate and useful piece of data. Particularly when you get results that defy common sense!

AlmightyCushion · 25-11-2019 12:27pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Indeed, seems deeply unscientific to run a measurement once and call it an accurate and useful piece of data. Particularly when you get results that defy common sense!

Yeah, it doesn't mean that the outcome is wrong. It's possible it is right even though common sense says otherwise. It mean we need to run more test and analyse more data. Unfortunately, that probably isn't going to happen as there are no more car free days planned.

MJohnston · 25-11-2019 12:32pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Yeah, it doesn't mean that the outcome is wrong. It's possible it is right even though common sense says otherwise. It mean we need to run more test and analyse more data. Unfortunately, that probably isn't going to happen as there are no more car free days planned.

The outcome might be right, but then we'd need to investigate what is actually leading to that. The article doesn't indicate where in Trinity the EPA metre was located. If it was away from College Green and near Nassau Street for example, I could see the measurements being higher as Nassau was probably even more of a bus Park than usual.

ncounties · 25-11-2019 1:53pm

A third testing site installed in the centre of College Green malfunctioned on the day.

You know, the place, that was actually car free...

Thelonious Monk · 25-11-2019 3:50pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/driving-tests-licence-and-insurance-should-be-required-for-e-scooters-says-council-1.4093439

Well driving test, licences, etc etc for eScooters will certainly help reduce cars in the city...

keane2097 · 25-11-2019 4:34pm

If someone told me the Dublin City Council was objectively proven to be the worst in the world I don't think I'd query it.

cgcsb · 25-11-2019 11:26pm

Are they not embarrassed by the collapse of the odeaveny gardens project or the college green plaza project or the liffey cycle route project or the...............
And now, more crapola.

wakka12 · 26-11-2019 3:16pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Are they not embarrassed by the collapse of the odeaveny gardens project or the college green plaza project or the liffey cycle route project or the...............
And now, more crapola.

??? Has that fallen through too already?? Plans were published so recently, after 5 years of consultation

Yeh I just looked it up and I havnt seen anything new released about it since the plans were released in April?

cgcsb · 26-11-2019 4:06pm

The NTA took it over but no budget for it. There was supposed to be a press release about by November. But no luck. It might be revived next year in a slightly different format if there's money. Perhaps running on the quayside for the whole route. However it'll remain in paper form for the foreseeable. I think it's been 8 years now, and still only on paper.

MJohnston · 26-11-2019 4:17pm

DCC just assigned €2.5m of the road maintenance budget to cycle lanes last night, so hopefully that's going to boost some of these projects.

cgcsb · 26-11-2019 4:52pm

MJohnston wrote: »

DCC just assigned €2.5m of the road maintenance budget to cycle lanes last night, so hopefully that's going to boost some of these projects.

That'll get us about one tenth of the Fairview to Amien st route done.

MJohnston · 26-11-2019 4:59pm

Well I don't think that comprises ALL of DCC's cycling spend, it's just additional - and it's good that it's coming from a road budget.

CatInABox · 26-11-2019 8:30pm

Don't think I've seen this here, but Fingal CoCo has started some car free school zones out in Malahide.

See here.

It's actually refreshing to see councils take on the work that has been done abroad and apply it here.

Peregrine · 27-11-2019 3:11am

CatInABox wrote: »

Don't think I've seen this here, but Fingal CoCo has started some car free school zones out in Malahide.

See here.

It's actually refreshing to see councils take on the work that has been done abroad and apply it here.

Fingal needs to be commended on this. The council staff really set this in motion and brought it through the local area committee despite objections. That was less than three weeks ago.

And they did it for all the right reasons.

Conchir · 27-11-2019 7:20pm

Unfortunately Fingal seem to take one step forward, two steps back, with free parking in Balbriggan, Rush, Skerries and Swords on three Saturdays in December.

To "support local businesses".

https://twitter.com/Fingalcoco/status/1199650019294556161?s=20

downtheroad · 27-11-2019 7:26pm

Posted by myself and a couple of other in the farmers protest thread but the area around Baggot Street, Merrion Row and Stephens Green was a joy to walk around today with so many roads blocked by the tractors.

Granted it was a pain for many commuters (didn't affect me on my bike but that's nothing new) but it was great to see so many pedestrians walking so freely not having to stop or look for vehicles. And the Grafton St shops seemed to be doing a huge trade, which flies in the face of the no parking equals no customers theory.

Hopefully Dublin City Council took notice but it will be back to the usual tomorrow.

is_that_so · 27-11-2019 7:27pm

Conchir wrote: »

Unfortunately Fingal seem to take one step forward, two steps back, with free parking in Balbriggan, Rush, Skerries and Swords on three Saturdays in December.

To "support local businesses".

https://twitter.com/Fingalcoco/status/1199650019294556161?s=20

Hmm, 3 Saturdays in December! End of civilisation as we know it. Christmas is a busy time for them or had you not noticed? If it's too much hassle people will go elsewhere.

donvito99 · 27-11-2019 7:41pm

is_that_so wrote: »

Hmm, 3 Saturdays in December! End of civilisation as we know it. Christmas is a busy time for them or had you not noticed? If it's too much hassle people will go elsewhere.

More subsidies for the Irish motorist. Nothing for people getting around without causing massive levels of traffic congestion.

is_that_so · 27-11-2019 7:46pm

donvito99 wrote: »

More subsidies for the Irish motorist. Nothing for people getting around without causing massive levels of traffic congestion.

Of course, throw all your Crimbo shopping on the back of a bike! BTW none of them are big enough to have massive congestion!

donvito99 · 27-11-2019 7:49pm

is_that_so wrote: »

Of course, throw all your Crimbo shopping on the back of a bike! BTW none of them are big enough to have massive congestion!

Well, in the City Centre, bus passengers spend more per head than motorists. Where Fingal CoCo's subsidised bus fares?

is_that_so · 27-11-2019 7:52pm

donvito99 wrote: »

Well, in the City Centre, bus passengers spend more per head than motorists. Where Fingal CoCo's subsidised bus fares?

The measures are aimed at encouraging locals to shop local rather than hit Millfield, Swords or Drogheda. It's DCC in the city centre so Fingal wouldn't subsidise that ever!

MJohnston · 27-11-2019 8:25pm

Who the feck goes Christmas shopping Balbriggan anyway?

Let them have their free parking, I hope there are some mad queues of traffic in return!

Peregrine · 27-11-2019 9:15pm

They shouldn't be giving out 'free' on-street parking. It's just another subsidy that will encourage driving.

DLR and DCC often do this on bank holiday weekends. Although, there was a decision at DLR a couple of weeks ago to stop this. I must look into that.

27-11-2019 9:26pm

Peregrine wrote: »

They shouldn't be giving out 'free' on-street parking. It's just another subsidy that will encourage driving.

I suspect that 99% of those motorists would drive anyway, all this does is make the destination more attractive.

Conchir · 28-11-2019 12:57am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I suspect that 99% of those motorists would drive anyway, all this does is make the destination more attractive.

Not having to worry about charges could also remove an incentive to vacate the spot, and ultimately lead to less availability per car visitors over the day.

celtcia · 01-12-2019 11:23am

What is College Green Plaza and Why It Matters

The development of the College Green Plaza is a debate that has been going on for quite a few years. The proposal was officially announced by the Dublin City Council in 2013 and it aims to pedestrianise the College Green area which lies between Trinity College Dublin and Church Lane. This idea is not a new one, but the design solutions required to solve certain complex issues require new innovation and relationships.

Why come up with the plaza at all?

With so many places in the city to choose from, one can’t help but wonder why College Green was picked as the spot for building a plaza.

One of the most important reasons is the historical significance of College Green. It was famous for being the ceremonial heart of the city, with a number of gatherings, protests and processions taking place there. Even today, the St Patrick’s Day Parade goes through that area. In 2011, the then-President of the United States, Barack Obama, addressed the crowd at College Green.

College Green was formerly called ‘Hoggen Green’ and the area was all grass. Today, however, the area is full of traffic; be it cars, buses, taxis, cyclists, or even pedestrians. This congested space right in the city centre has been degrading in air quality, one that does not meet the EU standards. Simply put, it can kill. The space is dangerous for pedestrians as there is not enough footpath space.

In the council's Public Realm Strategy 2012, called ‘Your City, Your Space’, College Green was identified as "potentially the most important civic space" in Dublin.

So, what options do we have for the College Green Plaza?

Right now, there are two design leaders: Dublin City Council’s refused design application, and the Celtcia group of flexible design options.

The Dublin City Council’s design is a plan to pedestrianise a smaller part of College Green with a 1700m2 primary plaza solution. Celtcia, on the other hand, offers 2350m2+ of flexible space while allowing cars and public transport in a variety of options, and faster pedestrian crossings.

Why do we need options? What does Celtcia offer that the Dublin City Council’s design does not?

If Dublin had a metro system, the solution would have been more simple. The design for Celtcia has been under works for more than 12 years; starting in 20086, this thoughtful masterpiece is based on a real love story. It is no doubt that in 112 years, this design has been able to consider, analyse, research, rework and incorporate features critical for the future of the College Green Plaza. Not only does Celtcia provide significant flexible design options, but it is also considerate of sustainable and essential features of the plaza. In 2012 it was submitted by the Green party to Dublin City Council as part of the Strategic Public Realm Strategy. This was also voted on by Dublin City Council in 2013 under motion 1261.

Celtcia is also focused on multiple aspects of life and appeals to people of all ages.

Transport

Being in the heart of the city, College Green demands convenient access to transportation. Be it for students studying in nearby universities (Trinity and the Dublin Business School), children playing in the new green patches of the plaza and playgrounds, party-goers looking to return home after a night out looking for a taxi, or the elderly enjoying a calm evening walk with disabled kerbs for the visually impaired. Transport is a matter of not only travel but also safety.

For cyclists, Celtcia would contain high quality, protected cycling lanes with up to 190 bicycle spaces (compared to the City Council’s design of 32 bicycle spaces)

There will be a Taxi rank in College Green, with a West-East Taxi access option

There will be a West-East bus access option

The design will be efficiently integrated with the Luas crossing.

Recreation:

Again, the city-centre is undoubtedly very, very happening. Celtcia offers a usable area of 2165m2+, with 185m2 being spaced out for fountains… that’s at least 758m2 more usable area than what the Dublin City Council’s design has to offer. Imagine this with a grass area of 200m2, a playground for children and chess boards; it is the perfect space for recreation for people of all ages.

Along with this, the presence of many sculptures and public art in the plaza and statues in the windows of the Bank of Ireland building will only beautify the place more. The statue of Thomas Davis would also remain in the primary area. Celtcia would successfully maintain the cultural identity while having the scope to become a unique tourist attraction. The option of Celtic tourism only makes this design more appealing.

Poetry and Public Speaking:

The freedom lookout is a carved public speaking platform where there could be spoken word competitions, bands and a photogenic vista lookout to climb. Stephen James Smith may even have a poem or two and bands and buskers could even perform on top of it on Sundays.

Celtcia’s Motivations?

Celtcia is based on a collective need rather than the individual need or limited architectural style or era. It started from a love story in Dublin Gardens in Dublin Castle. It has evolved into a desire for a more peaceful and quieter sanctuary. It imagined playgrounds instead of open air car parks while maintaining public transport options. Softer grass to balance hard surfaces. Celtcia wanted a world class place that locals and tourists alike would be attracted to. We wanted new experiences, moments and activities that are inclusive to different groups of people. We believed it was possible to maintain a deep respect for historical Dublin while introducing a new subtle future with more ambition which gives young people hope of a better future.

celtcia · 03-12-2019 9:35pm

https://irishcycle.com/2019/11/30/dublin-primed-to-adapt-healthy-streets-approach-to-shake-motor-traffic-dominance/

downtheroad · 04-12-2019 1:01pm

https://www.vox.com/2016/10/9/13017282/bogota-ciclovia-open-streets

I happened to witness this in Bogota, Colombia a few years ago and it is an absolutely fantastic initiative. The amount of people out walking, running, cycling, roller blading and just sitting in the city was wonderful to see. Would love to see something like this in Dublin, even if only a couple of times a year.

We might need the farmers to bring their tractors up for a weekend to see it happen though

SeanW · 04-12-2019 3:31pm

Conchir wrote: »

Not having to worry about charges could also remove an incentive to vacate the spot, and ultimately lead to less availability per car visitors over the day.

Funny enough, there used to be a solution to this, back before 2006 most towns had free parking with a 2 hour limit. Plenty of time to do some shopping and then go.

derekbro · 05-12-2019 1:05pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2019/1204/1097072-transport-plans/

cgcsb · 05-12-2019 6:03pm

Bit of a daft reaction. Removing car spaces entirely in the city core is what's needed. Upping the price just increases the average net worth of the car occupying the spaces.

Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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