Cities around the world that are reducing car access

Seth Brundle · 26-07-2019 10:56am

Listening to Owen Keegan on Newstalk this morning, I thought he said how the last one wasn't as bad as was made out and that some barriers were necessary to protect pedestrains from being knocked down by cyclists.
Did anyone else hear it?

Sam Russell · 26-07-2019 11:40am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Listening to Owen Keegan on Newstalk this morning, I thought he said how the last one wasn't as bad as was made out and that some barriers were necessary to protect pedestrains from being knocked down by cyclists.
Did anyone else hear it?

More importantly, did he hear what he said?

cgcsb · 26-07-2019 12:05pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Listening to Owen Keegan on Newstalk this morning, I thought he said how the last one wasn't as bad as was made out and that some barriers were necessary to protect pedestrains from being knocked down by cyclists.
Did anyone else hear it?

Couldn't cycle through the barriers no more than you could walk through them mind you.

MJohnston · 26-07-2019 12:43pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Listening to Owen Keegan on Newstalk this morning, I thought he said how the last one wasn't as bad as was made out and that some barriers were necessary to protect pedestrains from being knocked down by cyclists.
Did anyone else hear it?

Trying to find this - what vague time was it at?

MJohnston · 26-07-2019 12:52pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Listening to Owen Keegan on Newstalk this morning, I thought he said how the last one wasn't as bad as was made out and that some barriers were necessary to protect pedestrains from being knocked down by cyclists.
Did anyone else hear it?

Just found it - it wasn't Owen Keegan, it was the presenter, Shane Coleman or whoever he is. Moronic input from the media, but nothing untypical there.

Peregrine · 27-07-2019 10:43pm

I wonder how College Green will go tomorrow. Promising words coming from the council anyway.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/barriers-sidelined-for-second-college-green-plaza-trial-1.3967681

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1155179744348037120

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1155180099882405888

ncounties · 28-07-2019 4:27pm

Much better set up this week, though there was no designated cycle lane through the scheme. One woman going round taking surveys. With the amount of people enjoying the space, and not having to constantly dodge other pedestrians, it's created a much more relaxing space - it clearly makes sense. Shame South William Street has reverted to the status quo. In my view, pedestrianisation is required for the whole area including Drury St and Wicklow St.

Peregrine · 29-07-2019 1:29am

ncounties wrote: »

Much better set up this week, though there was no designated cycle lane through the scheme. One woman going round taking surveys. With the amount of people enjoying the space, and not having to constantly dodge other pedestrians, it's created a much more relaxing space - it clearly makes sense. Shame South William Street has reverted to the status quo. In my view, pedestrianisation is required for the whole area including Drury St and Wicklow St.

Definitely a lot better than last week. Fewer barriers, less empty space and more reason for people to stick around. I still have small annoyances but overall very positive.

fritzelly · 29-07-2019 10:39pm

Went down Sunday and not impressed, most of Dame St was still barriered off and no access for pedestrians. Barely a hundred people there (that's over estimating) "using" the street.
Why didn't they get pop up shops or something to come along instead of a few games for under 6's to play?
Seems to me like a complete waste of time with the only motive being to try and convince An Bord Pleanála to grant the planning to make someone happy and feel vindicated in DCC

celtcia · 07-08-2019 4:00am

I'm trying to understand why they didn't test the actual layouts they want to use? Bicycle lanes and all...

Peregrine · 18-08-2019 9:50pm

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0815/1069006-reclaiming-the-streets-from-the-car/

In this week's Brainstorm podcast, we look into what's required to make our cities less car-dependant

ncounties · 19-08-2019 8:34pm

Seen this on social media today. Yet another perfect example of the benefits of reducing car centred infratructure. Wouldn't the Quays look great like this?

https://twitter.com/bicycledutch/status/992685447951339520

Thelonious Monk · 31-08-2019 5:00pm

https://www.thejournal.ie/liffey-street-blocked-4790639-Aug2019/

Comments here just show you that most irish people dont want anything to change and its as bad as the US when it comes to motordom

MJohnston · 31-08-2019 6:10pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/liffey-street-blocked-4790639-Aug2019/

Comments here just show you that most irish people dont want anything to change and its as bad as the US when it comes to motordom

Journal commenters are some of the worst dregs of the internet (apart from maybe After Hours posters although I suspect massive overlap). A story about a protest is like catnip for them, there's nothing keyboard warriors hate more than people actually doing something.

is_that_so · 31-08-2019 6:13pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Public transport won't improve if we keep prioritising the car.

No public transport improvements will not allow us to ban cars.

ncounties · 31-08-2019 6:37pm

I stumbled across this today (photos attached) when I was in town and I felt it made less of an impact like when it was done in South William Street as because the area is section of street is quite short, and as the activists had to block the street from cars, by the time you past them, there was really no point moving back to the road. Though I made effort to make sure I and the person I was with did. Later in the afternoon, when I was approaching from the south, it was definitely more permeable to pedestrians, and felt like more people were using the space.

Unfortunately as I was about to leave, I seen the Gardai (who appeared clearly to be receptive to the initiative) approach the activists on the northern side, and ask "Did he attack you?", and the activists explained that an irate driver, got out of his car, shouted abuse at them, and then grabbed a couple of their signs, before getting back in his car and setting off down Strand Street Gt. Fortunately those involved didn't seem to fazed by what happened. Here's to many more.

Zebra3 · 31-08-2019 8:04pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/liffey-street-blocked-4790639-Aug2019/

Comments here just show you that most irish people dont want anything to change and its as bad as the US when it comes to motordom

A vocal, poisonous minority.

Peregrine · 01-09-2019 12:41am

Liffey Street may not seem as obvious or significant as South William Street but there's a vote on Liffey Street pedestrianisation at Dublin City Council on Monday and this highlights it before the vote.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/businesses-dispute-council-s-plans-for-liffey-street-plaza-1.3799387?mode=amp

Liffey Street is strategically interesting and will set a precedent. If the council votes and the carparks successfully get an injunction then every single Part 8 pedestrianisation scheme that affects carparks could get stuck in a long process of DCC, ABP and courts.

If the council votes yes and the courts throw away the injunction request by the carparks, the council could get on with a lot of these a lot quicker.

A pedestrianisation proposal for the remaining section of Mary Street is also coming up this year. You can bet your ass they'll threaten it for South William Street too. If the council can't even get these small projects (32,000 pedestrians vs 1000 cars in the case of Liffey Street) that impact car parks through with its own powers without legal action then we have no hope. So get in touch with your councillors as soon as possible and get them to push it through at least. We'll see about the carparks.

This thread is excellent and explains the situation at Liffey Street:
https://twitter.com/__kbaker__/status/1167743997210779648?s=20

L1011 · 01-09-2019 6:32pm

The logic here requires the council to vote for it and take any challenges to stop the spectre of challenges being used forever

MJohnston · 02-09-2019 2:18pm

Great news:
https://twitter.com/neasa_neasa/status/1168511978517798912

Now for the legal challenges - hopefully it being a unanimous vote will help a little with that.

Thelonious Monk · 02-09-2019 2:21pm

Great stuff. Hopefully we see this more and more and turn the city into a nice place for pedestrians and cyclists. I won't hold my breath though, much bigger decisions are required to be made.

ncounties · 02-09-2019 2:29pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Great news:
https://twitter.com/neasa_neasa/status/1168511978517798912

Now for the legal challenges - hopefully it being a unanimous vote will help a little with that.

Fantastic - we just need to make noise to the likes of Ilac and Arnott's now and show them this is what their customers want!

CatInABox · 02-09-2019 3:48pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Great news:
https://twitter.com/neasa_neasa/status/1168511978517798912

Now for the legal challenges - hopefully it being a unanimous vote will help a little with that.

Honestly, I don't think that there will be a legal challenge, it was most likely just a bluff/threat by the car park owners, with nothing behind it.

is_that_so · 02-09-2019 3:51pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Great stuff. Hopefully we see this more and more and turn the city into a nice place for pedestrians and cyclists. I won't hold my breath though, much bigger decisions are required to be made.

Liffey Street is pretty easy to do and a good thing. It's the bigger things DCC are not good at.

MJohnston · 02-09-2019 3:54pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Honestly, I don't think that there will be a legal challenge, it was most likely just a bluff/threat by the car park owners, with nothing behind it.

Maybe - I suspect they'll challenge it because otherwise it opens the gates to more of it. All the car parks are sticking together on this one, even though it really only affects Arnotts (and they're selling off part of their car park to a hotel!)

Peregrine · 02-09-2019 9:39pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Great news:
https://twitter.com/neasa_neasa/status/1168511978517798912

Now for the legal challenges - hopefully it being a unanimous vote will help a little with that.

There were a few councillors against it but everyone was canvassed quite heavily over the weekend and the support was so overwhelming, nobody spoke against it. Even the ones that were supposed to speak in favour of it didn't bother.

This is good. Mary Street should also go through pretty easily so. Hopefully there'll be plans drawn up for others soon and we can slowly chip away at the car dominance in Dublin. Over to the Dublin City Centre Traders Car Parks Alliance now.

This was on the agenda today but wasn't discussed due to time constraints. The executive is also fairly supportive of the idea so this could happen soon.

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1168480714976890881?s=20

CatInABox · 03-09-2019 12:16am

Peregrine wrote: »

There were a few councillors against it but everyone was canvassed quite heavily over the weekend and the support was so overwhelming, nobody spoke against it. Even the ones that were supposed to speak in favour of it didn't bother.

This is good. Mary Street should also go through pretty easily so. Hopefully there'll be plans drawn up for others soon and we can slowly chip away at the car dominance in Dublin. Over to the Dublin City Centre Traders Car Parks Alliance now.

This was on the agenda today but wasn't discussed due to time constraints. The executive is also fairly supportive of the idea so this could happen soon.

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1168480714976890881?s=20

Yes, a drop in replacement for their idiotic "free parking" days.

AndrewJRenko · 03-09-2019 11:27am

Amazing that this was a unanimous vote. Did all the anti cycling dinosaurs like Mannix and Christy really get on board?

is_that_so · 03-09-2019 1:47pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Amazing that this was a unanimous vote. Did all the anti cycling dinosaurs like Mannix and Christy really get on board?

It was 1,000 cars v 32,000 pedestrians and it's a very short street. Don't think cycling ever came into it. Be hard pushed to cycle with those numbers.

Peregrine · 03-09-2019 3:19pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Amazing that this was a unanimous vote. Did all the anti cycling dinosaurs like Mannix and Christy really get on board?

Unanimous usually just means nobody spoke out. I reckon there were some who didn't want it but knew it was going to pass and waved it through. There are so many things to get through at each meeting, most reports are just waved through with a proposer and a seconder.

The opposition to this comes from car parks and a small number of individuals. I don't know if the car parks tried to lobby councillors (I wouldn't know the ones they would try to lobby) but the individual opponents were nowhere as organised as the supporters.

Most councillors probably got 10-15 e-mails (not counting social media) asking them to vote for this on Saturday and Sunday. They can kind of gauge the opinion. Anyone who didn't want it would only be wasting their time sticking their neck out.

If you listen, it looks like there was supposed to be a debate but nobody wanted to speak.

https://dublincity.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/437711