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Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    MJohnston wrote: »
    I think the point the poster is making is that Madrid is no more of a 365-day tourism city than Dublin.

    In fact, at a quick glance, I would be assuming that most people go to Madrid for hot-weather holidays, which would mean it'd have a bigger spike in summer. Whereas in Dublin you see plenty of Christmas tourists, even though the weather is usually miserable.

    I would like to see some stats on this though!
    You don't go to Madrid for the heat, as it's hellish in summer. Culture, shopping, travel hub etc. Second after Barcelona for visitors.

    Some stats. https://www.statista.com/statistics/449249/yearly-number-of-international-tourists-visiting-madrid-2001-2014/ Up to over 7m in 2018 BTW.

    My point still stands - pedestrianisation is not the unique driver of the growth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 891 ✭✭✭redfacedbear


    A public transport strike in Holland led to the cancellation of buses, trains and ferries. The Dutch response is to close a tunnel to cars to facilitate people who can't take their normal ferry to cycle through the tunnel instead.

    Could you imagine the uproar here if the Port Tunnel was given over to cyclists in a similar situation :pac:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/05/public-transport-strike-bikes-in-car-tunnel-and-plane-cancellations/


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,436 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Also when it snows in Holland, they first snow plough the cycle lanes, before they do the roads.

    Oh and when they close the cycle lanes for maintenance (which of course they do a lot of), they close the road or bus lane next to the cycle path and use that as a temporary cycle path. Because they see the the idea of mixing cyclists with mutli ton buses as being insane!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,480 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    A public transport strike in Holland led to the cancellation of buses, trains and ferries. The Dutch response is to close a tunnel to cars to facilitate people who can't take their normal ferry to cycle through the tunnel instead.

    Could you imagine the uproar here if the Port Tunnel was given over to cyclists in a similar situation :pac:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/05/public-transport-strike-bikes-in-car-tunnel-and-plane-cancellations/

    In fairness, it would be pointless to give the Port Tunnel over to cyclists, given that it would still be able to perform its primary function as a freight connection for HGVs to the port. You also can't cycle on a motorway, so there would be no way to reach the north end of the tunnel, and even if you could, it's a long, long tunnel with no ingress or egress points, so it would be of limited value to a limited number of cyclists ;) (I know you weren't being serious with the suggestion)


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    bk wrote: »
    Also when it snows in Holland, they first snow plough the cycle lanes, before they do the roads.

    Oh and when they close the cycle lanes for maintenance (which of course they do a lot of), they close the road or bus lane next to the cycle path and use that as a temporary cycle path. Because they see the the idea of mixing cyclists with mutli ton buses as being insane!

    during the beast from the east the grand canal cycle way was used to deposit snow cleared from the street. :pac:

    Despite the fact that the number of bikes using that on any given day is multiples the number of cars and there were no cars, or indeed anything open down there at the time.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/may/31/madrid-set-to-end-clean-air-project-in-rightwing-power-switch

    Madrid could scrap its low emissions zone. The person who is likely to be the next president of the region wants to do it. Never mind the reduced pollution, 3am traffic jams are part of the cities identity so should be brought back.

    Apparently.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    JohnC. wrote: »
    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/may/31/madrid-set-to-end-clean-air-project-in-rightwing-power-switch

    Madrid could scrap its low emissions zone. The person who is likely to be the next president of the region wants to do it. Never mind the reduced pollution, 3am traffic jams are part of the cities identity so should be brought back.

    Apparently.

    Mental stuff


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,480 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Right-wingers love their cars, for whatever reason. There's a particular selfishness inherent to Conservatism, a "for me and mine only" type attitude.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,846 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Right-wingers love their cars, for whatever reason. There's a particular selfishness inherent to Conservatism, a "for me and mine only" type attitude.

    It’s the sense of entitlement.

    Bailey & Co.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,480 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Dublin Cycling, Irish Pedestrian group, and Dublin Commuter Coalition have blocked off South William Street today. Fair play to them, doing what DCC should have done long, long ago.

    Look at how lovely it all is without cars:
    https://twitter.com/dublincycling/status/1152579323959885824


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Dublin Cycling, Irish Pedestrian group, and Dublin Commuter Coalition have blocked off South William Street today. Fair play to them, doing what DCC should have done long, long ago.

    Look at how lovely it all is without cars:
    https://twitter.com/dublincycling/status/1152579323959885824

    Traffic flowed very well in the area. As soon as they were gone, there were tailback the length of the street and onwards towards Dame St.

    The main benefit was the absence of car noise, beeping, idling etc.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Traffic flowed very well in the area. As soon as they were gone, there were tailback the length of the street and onwards towards Dame St.

    The main benefit was the absence of car noise, beeping, idling etc.

    You could actually hear the noise of plates and cutlery in restaurants, people talking etc. It was great.


  • Registered Users Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Conchir


    And today College Green is only for pedestrians and the Luas right? I can’t make it into town today but hopefully it’s a great success. Fingers crossed that the weather stays good, that should really help it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Sws was lovely yesterday


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,293 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Conchir wrote: »
    And today College Green is only for pedestrians and the Luas right? I can’t make it into town today but hopefully it’s a great success. Fingers crossed that the weather stays good, that should really help it.

    Not a great start

    https://twitter.com/neasa_neasa/status/1152885436953563137?s=19



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    The College Green pedestrian trial seems pretty awful today. The whole area is filled with metal barriers and obstacles. Not exactly an inviting atmosphere for pedestrians. Hopefully the next trials cutback on the barriers and funnelling people through specific entry / exit points.


  • Registered Users Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Conchir



    Jesus. Willfully poor by Dublin City Council? The contrast with South William St yesterday is ridiculous.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Is there something else going on there? Are the barriers for something else? I see a "Filming in Progress" sign there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Conchir


    This has actually really annoyed me. The implication by having barriers and security guards is that pedestrians are some dangerous group who need policing. In what world would dedicated security guards be needed in a pedestrianised College Green, when they're not needed on Grafton St or parks like Merrion Square or St Stephen's Green?

    And every day, thousands of vehicles move through College Green mixing with cyclists and pedestrians, yet barriers are needed when it's only pedestrians? I can only hope that it's still used by plenty of people, and that the trials later on are grouped with a bit of common sense from the planners.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,222 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    That's an incredible facepalm moment. That kind of barriers and control might be needed at a concert, but not at a trial pedestrianisation of an area. It's like they want it to fail. Judging by this, you'd expect them to go back and put railing into Henry St and Grafton St, just in case the pedestrians start going too fast.

    Judging by the backlash from almost everyone to the amount of barriers, I'd imagine that next week will be better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,846 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Looks almost like it’s set up to make it fail.


  • Registered Users Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Conchir


    This photo really shows the stupidity of it. Empty roads and all those people still crammed into paths.

    It is so hard to believe someone genuinely thought this was a good idea, it’s easier to believe they’ve done it poorly on purpose.

    https://twitter.com/seamusdo/status/1152900732003262465?s=21


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    https://www.thejournal.ie/college-green-barriers-pedestrian-zone-4733840-Jul2019/

    They will be reviewing measures for next time. Predictably.

    It also says the barriers were removed in the afternoon. True?

    Got to laugh at this picture of people restricted to a narrow strip of footpath by a building hoarding with a big empty road blocked off.

    Leg348p.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,846 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    The stupidity of it all. :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    On further reflection, I think the reason they closed off half time of Dame st was to give an idea of what it will be like as Dame st will remain open to cars. Still doesn’t make any sense but I think there is SOME logic in their thoughts.

    However based on today, why not pedestrianise Dame st. anyway. I’m sure it would have little additional impact on traffic as the vast majority of traffic on it is travelling through the green. Forcing all traffic to turn up George’s st makes far more sense then the U turn option in the current plans.

    As I said in the C+T forum, I would class today as a disaster in terms of what they were trying to do. In actual fact, the more I think about it, the bigger a disaster it was.

    If the plan was to get people into the space then it failed miserably for 2 main reasons.
    1. The lack of events and in turn atmosphere
    2. The bloody barriers

    If the plan was to see how it would impact traffic then I would also say it failed miserably
    1. Traffic was very heavy on the quays
    2. There were lots of confused tourists (more confused than normal :pac:)
    3. I didn’t note any traffic counting equipment on any of the approaches.

    All in all, it would appear that DCC did not put a lot of thought into how this would work and it showed. Another planning application this year would be a waste of money and if it is submitted before the end of the year there should be resignations because I can guarantee it simply won’t be approved.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,846 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Why was there lots of confused tourists?

    And what were they confused about?


  • Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Why was there lots of confused tourists?

    And what were they confused about?

    The fact that practically even bus in Dublin (especially tourist buses) stops in college green and the area was now barricaded with little to no information about where diverted buses were located.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,535 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Last Stop wrote: »
    The fact that practically even bus in Dublin (especially tourist buses) stops in college green and the area was now barricaded with little to no information about where diverted buses were located.

    That’s simply not true.

    While there are plenty of things we can criticise Dublin Bus for, this is one thing that they do get right these days.

    Every single bus stop that was not being served has a clear notice attached to it, indicating that it is not being served and also indicating where the nearest stop that is in use is located.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    https://www.thejournal.ie/college-green-traffic-pedestrianisation-4738147-Jul2019/

    The council say this Sunday's closure will almost double the publicly accessible space and have more seating.


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