Cities around the world that are reducing car access

AndrewJRenko · 03-09-2019 9:21pm

Peregrine wrote: »

Unanimous usually just means nobody spoke out. I reckon there were some who didn't want it but knew it was going to pass and waved it through. There are so many things to get through at each meeting, most reports are just waved through with a proposer and a seconder.

I don't think that's true. The Dublin Inquirer has a tracker of who voted for what. There may not have been much debate, but each Councillor has to vote for, against or abstain.

AFAIK, it is very, very rare for anything to be completely unanimous (no votes against). I'm just curious as to how Ring, Burke, Flynn responded to this issue.

Dats me · 04-09-2019 12:48am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I don't think that's true. The Dublin Inquirer has a tracker of who voted for what. There may not have been much debate, but each Councillor has to vote for, against or abstain.

AFAIK, it is very, very rare for anything to be completely unanimous (no votes against). I'm just curious as to how Ring, Burke, Flynn responded to this issue.

No I think he's right, I've certainly seen it happen in the Dáil. A motion will be put forth and if no one says they oppose it then it just get passed. So they wouldn't have voted for it per we, but would have let I through without forcing a vote that they knew they would lose

MJohnston · 04-09-2019 12:59am

Yes they can do voice votes where all the ayes call their vote at once, and then the nos. If there are obviously fewer (or no) votes on one side then there's no need to go to a roll call vote where individual votes are noted.
Here's a recent voice vote:
https://counciltracker.ie/motions/1aff2eab

CatInABox · 06-09-2019 3:53pm

Most people want it, most traders in the area want it, most of the people that they talked to want it, so what headline does the Irish Times, the "paper of record", go with for an article about the Liffey Street Plaza?

New Liffey Street plaza: ‘Madness, What’s the point of all the multi-storey car parks now?’

Zebra3 · 06-09-2019 4:05pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Most people want it, most traders in the area want it, most of the people that they talked to want it, so what headline does the Irish Times, the "paper of record", go with for an article about the Liffey Street Plaza?

New Liffey Street plaza: ‘Madness, What’s the point of all the multi-storey car parks now?’

It’s actually a great question!!

cgcsb · 06-09-2019 6:43pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Most people want it, most traders in the area want it, most of the people that they talked to want it, so what headline does the Irish Times, the "paper of record", go with for an article about the Liffey Street Plaza?

New Liffey Street plaza: ‘Madness, What’s the point of all the multi-storey car parks now?’

Indeed arnotts car park would serve as a fantastic bike storage facility with part of it converted to retail use.

I hope a wider plan to smoke arnotts out of there is going ahead

L1011 · 08-09-2019 12:37pm

Arnotts have proposed changing much of that to a hotel anyway

Zebra3 · 12-09-2019 10:08pm

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/sep/10/barcelonas-car-free-superblocks-could-save-hundreds-of-lives

Incredible stuff in there. Apparently reducing car traffic saves lives, reduces air and noise pollution, and increases local trade!!!

Who knew???!!!

Peregrine · 12-09-2019 10:13pm

College Green is being opened up again on the 22nd for World Car Free Day. Not a lot of publicity so far.

John_Rambo · 12-09-2019 10:22pm

Dublin city - I had to drive in to An Lar from Clontarf on Saturday afternoon to pick up some heavy gear and then back home.

It's not a place for cars. From the Ilac car park there's basically a single lane heading North to Croker. I don't know how people (still) do it at rush hour during the week and my sympathies are with tradespeople with gear & people that don't have decent public transport.

The city needs to up it's game on public transport and start to invest heavily.

Zebra3 · 22-10-2019 12:58pm

Well this genius has it solved.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LordBikebot/status/1186585591107985408

bk · 22-10-2019 9:38pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Well this genius has it solved.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LordBikebot/status/1186585591107985408

I don't agree with it, but that seems to be taken out of context.

The person was suggesting EV's be allowed to use buslanes, to help encourage the take up of EV's, which is one of the steps they took in Norway to help boost EV take up.

However it is rather controversial suggestion, it was almost too successful in Norway and there are so many EV's now that they are slowing buses down and they are looking to reverse it.

MJohnston · 23-10-2019 3:32am

They did the same with HOV lanes in California when I lived there, and while take up of EVs was very high (in the SF Bay Area mind you, home of disposable income), it just meant the lanes were utterly useless. It's not a solution for Dublin at all though, we don't need to convert to different types of cars, we need much less cars on the road.

MJohnston · 23-10-2019 3:47am

Speaking of California, I'm in SF this week and tried my first app-hired eScooter. If we added these in Dublin, combined with a massive expansion of cycle paths, it would negate so much necessity for cars and even public transport.

Thelonious Monk · 23-10-2019 8:45am

People dont want escooters in ireland they seem to think theyll bring death and chaos and people are scared to death of bikes and scooters being on footpaths for some reason. The only thing improving traffic here is the next recession.

Zebra3 · 23-10-2019 10:27am

Probably as good as place as any to throw this.

Great read.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/22/concrete-bungle-how-public-fury-stopped-the-1970s-plan-to-turn-london-into-a-motorway

Seth Brundle · 23-10-2019 10:55am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People dont want escooters in ireland they seem to think theyll bring death and chaos and people are scared to death of bikes and scooters being on footpaths for some reason. The only thing improving traffic here is the next recession.

In terms of the public not wanting escooters in Ireland, I would doubt that's the case at all. Many commuters would opt for them if they knew it was legal and safe.
As for people being scared to death of scooters and bikes being on footpaths, this is largely a view expressed by an anti-cyclist media and it blown way out of proportion. Cyclists don't choose to use a footpath for the craic anyhow.

Thelonious Monk · 23-10-2019 11:00am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

In terms of the public not wanting escooters in Ireland, I would doubt that's the case at all. Many commuters would opt for them if they knew it was legal and safe.
As for people being scared to death of scooters and bikes being on footpaths, this is largely a view expressed by an anti-cyclist media and it blown way out of proportion. Cyclists don't choose to use a footpath for the craic anyhow.

But all I see is people wanting insurance tax restrictions on anything to do with escooters. I know the Journal shouldn't be referenced but look at comments on anything like this there, or even here on boards, people just hate cyclists and escooters.
How have I managed 40 years without ever having a bike hit me on a pavement, I'm in the centre every day?

Seth Brundle · 23-10-2019 11:18am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

But all I see is people wanting insurance tax restrictions on anything to do with escooters. I know the Journal shouldn't be referenced but look at comments on anything like this there, or even here on boards, people just hate cyclists and escooters.

Who is wanting that?
All I've heard is that as per the law they are currently classed as Mechanically Propelled Vehicles and therefore require tax, insurance and NCT (and two people were recently in court for having no insurance).
However, as I understand it, the DoT are actively looking into changing the law to facilitate their use.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

How have I managed 40 years without ever having a bike hit me on a pavement, I'm in the centre every day?

Most people go about their daily business without seeing a bike on the pavement.
Most cyclists go about their daily business without cycling on the pavement.
Some people post on the internet about the terror they have endured by seeing a bike on the path yada yada yada. Most of the time it's exaggerated waffle used to tar all cyclists with the same brush :rolleyes:

keane2097 · 23-10-2019 12:21pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

But all I see is people wanting insurance tax restrictions on anything to do with escooters. I know the Journal shouldn't be referenced but look at comments on anything like this there, or even here on boards, people just hate cyclists and escooters.
How have I managed 40 years without ever having a bike hit me on a pavement, I'm in the centre every day?

I'd wager good money the same people bleating on about tax and insurance for scooters wouldn't peel themselves out of their cars if they were on fire.

Sam Russell · 23-10-2019 12:52pm

eScooters appear to manage OK as things are, but if regularised, then I think they will impact car commuters, if only for the last 5 or so kms.

They need to wear helmets, be identified by some number plate type scheme, carry some insurance, and not to travel on pavements.

I have seen a greater compliance of traffic lights be cyclist in the recent past, so that is good. I have also noticed a falling off of compliance by car drivers of bus lanes, traffic lights, etc. So you win some and lose more.

loyatemu · 23-10-2019 2:42pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

They need to wear helmets, be identified by some number plate type scheme, carry some insurance, and not to travel on pavements.

the current proposal seems to include mandatory helmets, but number plates and insurance are unlikely as they're very lightweight vehicles, and not particularly dangerous. Why introduce that level of bureaucracy, what problem are you trying to solve?

AAAAAAAAA · 23-10-2019 3:18pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

eScooters appear to manage OK as things are, but if regularised, then I think they will impact car commuters, if only for the last 5 or so kms.

They need to wear helmets, be identified by some number plate type scheme, carry some insurance, and not to travel on pavements.

Ludicrous. They are light enough to be in the same class as bicycles and should be treated alike.

cruizer101 · 23-10-2019 4:20pm

Part of the problem with e-scooter is the range of power across different models. There are models which will go 60 maybe even 80 km/h which should require insurance. But from what I've read the plans are to legalise lower power models e.g. up to 20km/h in which case insurance and registration is overkill.

Sam Russell · 23-10-2019 5:44pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Part of the problem with e-scooter is the range of power across different models. There are models which will go 60 maybe even 80 km/h which should require insurance. But from what I've read the plans are to legalise lower power models e.g. up to 20km/h in which case insurance and registration is overkill.

They need to be type approved, which should include a min and max wheel diameter, max speed, and proper lighting. They should also have a max weight.

If that is all complied with, then the insurance would be unnecessary.

John_Rambo · 23-10-2019 11:57pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Part of the problem with e-scooter is the range of power across different models. There are models which will go 60 maybe even 80 km/h which should require insurance. But from what I've read the plans are to legalise lower power models e.g. up to 20km/h in which case insurance and registration is overkill.

The e-scooters that hit those speeds aren't the stand on ones. They're Vespa styled ones with big pneumatic wheels with a sit on top configurations that you see all over China.

I don't think any of the stand on push scooters can push 60 - 80kph.

MJohnston · 24-10-2019 4:15am

If you go above 15mph on an eScooter (I think there's confusion about the term scooter, which other countries don't really use to refer to mopeds like we do, but an eScooter is the stand on skateboard type thing with a handlebar and a motor) you're very quickly going to fall off. The streets of SF are much bumpier than Dublin, but even small bumps really challenge your balance. Everything about their design keeps them slow, but steady.

Zebra3 · 25-11-2019 10:35am

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/air-pollution-doubled-on-car-free-day-in-parts-of-dublin-1.4093601

Not a good news story.

AlmightyCushion · 25-11-2019 10:53am

Zebra3 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/air-pollution-doubled-on-car-free-day-in-parts-of-dublin-1.4093601

Not a good news story.

“This was a surprising result and perhaps attributable to wind direction and speed. It was noted that there were not high winds on the day.”

The problem is they only one day's worth of data for the car free measurements. It's nowhere near enough data to get an accurate result.

MJohnston · 25-11-2019 12:19pm

Indeed, seems deeply unscientific to run a measurement once and call it an accurate and useful piece of data. Particularly when you get results that defy common sense!

Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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