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Paying for sex

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24567…16

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    #32
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    .

    I dont attach any spiritual or metaphysical significance to sex but feel that the buying and selling of sex commodifies people.
    The main reason im against it is because I feel its very dehumanizing. .

    The simple answer to that is to not involve yourself with the I industry so. I don't see why that should make you want to stop others doing it if they want though

    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    .
    You have no way of knowing if the sex worker wants to be there or not, if theyre being forced into it or the circumstances that led them into having paid sex with you.
    .
    Not when it's illegal and underground you don't. There should be legal brothels where it's safe and regulated.


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    #33
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Give me a break

    You can have a 15 minute one and if you clock back in one second after 15 minutes you are in trouble.


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    #34
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    The simple answer to that is to not involve yourself with the I industry so. I don't see why that should make you want to stop others doing it if they want though



    Not when it's illegal and underground you don't. There should be legal brothels where it's safe and regulated.

    Legal brothels in Amsterdam have over 1000 trafficked women,
    vulnerable women from poor countries taken to Amsterdam under the promise of jobs in childcare and waitressing or promised careers as dancers and models who are then forced into prostitution.
    Legalisation and regulation doesn't stop trafficking.


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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Seems to work well in Holland where it's legal and the police keep an eye on things to make sure nobody is being forced to do anything they aren't comfortable with.

    We will probably have to wait a few years here before it is on the table for discussion though because the spineless TDs here will just ignore it even though some politicians, judges and the clergy have all been going to prostitutes for years.

    Not true at all.
    There are hundreds of not thousands of trafficked sex workers in Holland.
    Like the same as smoking in a cafe is legal, but where does the weed come from? It's from drug dealers, illegal.
    There are many many many women working in Holland as sex workers who are there against their will.
    So just imagine how many are working in other countries, where that kind of thing is illegal,
    Think about it.


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    #36
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    Bullet To The Head? wrote: »
    All seems a bit grim. Having to actually pay a woman to touch you...and if she' actually willing to trade her pussy then she's an even bigger **** up than the johns.

    But hey, never say never. I may have to start paying to play myself.

    Why is she worse? 9 times out of 10 she's in the vulnerable situation with less choices and autonomy.

    Anyone thats been persistently come on to or gotten off with someone they don't find attractive knows how gross it can feel. I cant imagine what it must be like for a poor vulnerable trafficked woman that has to act pleased at a load of sleazy strange men night after night. It must be soul destroying. What's even worse is being a contributor to that.
    How could you actually live with yourself?

    Like if the sex worker actually wants to be there and enjoys the work they do, thats completely fine for both to engage in but its the not knowing.
    Is your 5 minutes or hour of sexual satisfaction really worth more than the mental, emotional and physical well being of another person?

    Its lacking in all empathy and basic human decency.

    I lose all respect for men when I hear theyve bought sex.


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    #37
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    Bullet To The Head? wrote: »
    Yeah feel bad for the ones who are forced, but the ones who are willingly there? I may be a total failure in life but at least I'm not selling my ass.

    But hey, you're a woman. What could you possibly know what it's like to be an outcast man?

    An outcast man?
    Youre as entitled to sex as much as I am and im not entitled to sex at all. If you feel like an outcast maybe have a good look at yourself and your mindset and work on self improvement.

    Genuinely, if someone wants to sell sex I dont see any problem with it. As long as their an adult, safe and not hurting anyone, its their body and they can do what they please.


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    #38
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    italodisco wrote: »
    I've asked my wife recently to allow me find another married woman who is deprived and let me fulfil that sexual aspect , she said no.

    You should have kept your mouth shut and just shagged the other married woman.


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    #39
    khaldrogo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭khaldrogo


    I do my job out if desperation......I'm desperately trying to keep up with my bills


    touts wrote: »
    Between two (or more) consenting adults willingly entering into the transaction then fair enough. However it seems that the vast majority of sex workers are either forced into the trade or are doing it purely out of desperation. Sure people can point to a few escorts who are happy to do it and are even in the media promoting their latest book or blog. However that's like saying my grandfather smoked 50 a day and lived to be 100. There are always exceptions but the exception of the few doesn't override the harm done to the majority. So for the greater good it is outlawed.


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    #40
    khaldrogo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭khaldrogo


    italodisco wrote: »
    Would have been against it until got married and my wife went from absolute sex devil to non interested selfish cow.

    If an escort is legitimately independent etc I see no wrong.

    I do everything for my wife and kid, everything. I get nothing in return. I don't cheat, I've had a zillion opportunities and said no. I've asked my wife recently to allow me find another married woman who is deprived and let me fulfil that sexual aspect , she said no.

    Leave her ffs!!!


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    #41
    khaldrogo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭khaldrogo


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Why would you look for another married women to potentially destroy her marriage?

    If she is in a dead bedroom through no choice of her own then her husband destroyed the marriage already


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    #42
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    khaldrogo wrote: »
    I do my job out if desperation......I'm desperately trying to keep up with my bills

    It's not the same thing at all.
    We all have to make a living but in our jobs we have rights, we have to respect the rights of others we work with and they have to respect our rights.
    This includes things like bullying and sexual harassment.

    Sex workers, particularly trafficked sex workers, don't have the same rights afforded to them. Men bascially pay money to rape them while the sex worker is forced to look like theyre enjoying it.

    I dont know how you can compare a normal job in a shop or office to the work of a sex worker.

    Bit of a twisted comparison tbh.


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    #43
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    Legal brothels in Amsterdam have over 1000 trafficked women,
    vulnerable women from poor countries taken to Amsterdam under the promise of jobs in childcare and waitressing or promised careers as dancers and models who are then forced into prostitution.
    Legalisation and regulation doesn't stop trafficking.

    Neither does making it illegal.
    What is your solution?


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    #44
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    Men bascially pay money to rape them while the sex worker is forced to look like theyre enjoying it.

    :rolleyes:

    Anymore slogans or soundbites?

    Believe it or not in countries where prostitution is legalised (Germany, Holland) the person selling sex is treated as a normal member of society providing a service.

    They are subsequently taxed and protected by the relevant policing authorities.

    It may go against your morals but some people have no problem having sex with another person and getting paid for it. They're not raped because that is a criminal offense liable to prosecution with many years in jail.


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    #45
    khaldrogo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭khaldrogo


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    It's not the same thing at all.
    We all have to make a living but in our jobs we have rights, we have to respect the rights of others we work with and they have to respect our rights.
    This includes things like bullying and sexual harassment.

    Sex workers, particularly trafficked sex workers, don't have the same rights afforded to them. Men bascially pay money to rape them while the sex worker is forced to look like theyre enjoying it.

    I dont know how you can compare a normal job in a shop or office to the work of a sex worker.

    Bit of a twisted comparison tbh.


    It would depend on the type of sex worker , of which there are 2 > the trafficed ones(your favs) and the independent ones.
    An independent sex worker who enjoys her job and has no pimp could be earning 100k a year. These women don't want your pity. They are happy and well paid and can choose who they sleep with and what they do.


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    #46
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users Posts: 4,421 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    Would €100 be a reasonable going rate?


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    #47
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,011 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    HappyAsLarE wrote: »
    If you’re not the following:
    Ronaldo
    Clooney
    Pitt

    You’re most likely paying for sex.

    Reminds me of the old line (by Woody Allen?)
    Have you ever paid for sex?
    Only emotionally


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    #48
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Prostitution, like drugs, should be legalized, taxed and regulated. This Victorian BS about “vice” and “morals” needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. These days it is dressed up as feminist disapproval of women being “exploited” by the “patriarchy.”

    Yes, trafficking and coercion of women in the sex industry exists and there is also the issue of women exploited in the porn industry, and these problems need to be tacked effectively - but there are also many in these industries who are there by choice. The reality of the sex industry is much more complex and nuanced than high horse black and white ideological stances. It is also one of the biggest industries on the planet - worth tens of € billions in revenue per annum. So it is not going away. Making it illegal only keeps it underground and solves nothing. Nothing.

    And as a gay man myself, what do the outraged moralists here have to say about gay and bisexual men willingly doing escort work or in the gay porn industry? Should they, too, be protected from themselves?

    This tired narrative that all women in the sex industry are innocent victims of exploitation and abuse does nothing to help real victims of abuse, and only perpetuates the myth that women cannot willingly work in the sex industry of their own free will.


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    #49
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    .......

    Sex workers, particularly trafficked sex workers, don't have the same rights afforded to them. Men bascially pay money to rape them while the sex worker is forced to look like theyre enjoying it.

    ........


    Many there have been air hostesses, nurses and all sorts of things. Many pay tax ( inb4 vat-at-the-point-of-entry )

    It was legalised to try centralise it and reduce incidents


    It's this filthy christian recruiting young people to "save" others :


    Sara Lous, 29, Exxpose :


    I grew up in a village near Rotterdam with my brother and four sisters.

    Things were comfortable, my mum was a nurse and my dad had his own aluminium business.

    They’re both Christians and that’s how I was raised, I still go to church and I’m married



    In the Netherlands it’s illegal to put puppies in a pet shop window because we believe it’s cruel – and yet we put our young women behind a window and pretend it’s normal.

    Tourists can walk around the Red Light District gawping at them without paying any money at all – those ladies are a tourist attraction and a lot of people get to see them in their underwear for free.

    Our campaign is staffed by volunteers, mostly young people

    . We see too much harm going on, too much human trafficking and we object to the normalisation of the buying of sex.

    It isn’t about a woman’s right to sell sex. Women should be free to do what they want with their bodies - I can totally understand why people do it and I think it’s a really brave decision to sell sex.

    I can totally imagine doing that.




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    #50
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You could quite literally say that about every job, everywhere. Nobody works in the €2 Shop because they've always wanted to. It's to pay the bills and keep food on the table.

    I worked in a €2 Shop years ago, and I'll say one thing about it:

    While it wasn't the most enjoyable or fulfilling job I ever had, nobody ever put their dick in me.


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    #51
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    And what if some woman came in and asked you to say ....... show her the stockroom ?


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    #52
    Liamalone
    Registered Users Posts: 4,955 ✭✭✭Liamalone


    Get her bucked!!


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    #53
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    I used to work in an adult store and several times a week we’d have prostitutes come in to stock up on lingerie, toys etc. Most of the time they’d be flanked by big lads who’d creep out and try intimidate the girls working there. We had one gas night when the lads illegally parked outside so we grabbed a couple of Gardaí doing patrols outside and told them they were inside, the lads thought they were getting done in a sting operation and there was instant bedlam. The lads would pick out everything and basically order the girls around, you’d be under no delusion who was in charge and whether or not the girls were doing this because it was their independent career choice. Other girls who’d shop alone would tell the girls their stories (you’d hear some sensational stuff, like a TS girl who was dating a Garda who had previously been a client behind his wife and family’s back) and, again, it would always follow the worst case scenario line of often foreign or drug-adled women who felt they didn’t have a better alternative. Prostitutes wouldn’t have been my thing before that anyway but I couldn’t do it in good faith no matter what knowing what the reality of the world is like now.

    These exceptions lads here seem to convince themselves totally exist...well, I haven’t come across them and I was in a better position than most to do so. But I doubt they’re going to (or allowed to) share their true story with a desperate john looking for the ride. Telling them they’re a prostitute just because Irish lads are sooooo good at teh sex is probably part of the act in order to get regular work and more money.

    Having said that, it’s one of those things that the law isn’t stopping, so I’d also support legalising it just for the simple fact that putting it out in the open and regulating it has to offer them better protection etc than having to go underground and dealing with gangs.


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    #54
    FanadMan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭FanadMan


    I've never had to pay for sex here but I think it should be legalised. After reading the AMA https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057719737 by an independent escort, not all prostitutes/escorts are trafficked or illegal aliens. Some do it because the can switch off during sex and find it an easy way to supplement their income.

    It would need to be very strictly regulated for it to work properly because, no doubt the gangland scum would try and get in on it.....by setting up their own brothels or "offering" security to legitimate ones.

    There will always be people that are willing to pay for sex. Whether it's someone in a loveless/sexless marriage, horny young fellas, businessmen working away or whatever. And if there is a legal, taxed and properly regulated (no gang involvement, regular health screening etc) there is no reason why it shouldn't be allowed.......as long as the crowds of old women won't be outside praying and protesting :D


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    #55
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Peter Flynt wrote: »
    You should have kept your mouth shut and just shagged the other married woman.
    This would risk him having to leave his own home and having limited access to his kid, while continuing to pay his wife's way.

    I understand that if one partner never wants sex then after a year they are legally considered to have abandoned their partner. I'm not a lawyer though. Doubt it has much effect on the outcome of a separation or divorce anyway.

    Even without the extreme of separation or divorce, it would be very likely to destabilise things. Which is bot ideal because he's basically stuck with his wife if he wants to stay living in his own home and with his kid.

    And he might just not be comfortable doing it behind his wife's back.


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    #56
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    Legal brothels in Amsterdam have over 1000 trafficked women,

    Hmmm.

    From where have you sourced that figure?

    Hendrik Wagenaar, associate professor at the Department of Public Administration at Leiden University has undertaken extensive research on prostitution in the Netherlands and wider EU.

    He'd appear to be at odds with yourself:

    Prostitution policy is also plagued by bad numbers. There are lots of bad numbers based on wild estimates. They say there are millions of victims of trafficking in Europe, but no one has ever counted them.

    The whole prostitution debate is driven by emotional numbers, as I tend to call them. We counted the number of illegal prostitutes in Rotterdam, and numbers really were not that high. Each one is one too many, do not get me wrong, but the numbers are not that dramatic. We have about 400 cases of trafficking per year in The Netherlands. A lot of people say that this is just the tip of the iceberg, but no one has ever shown the iceberg, or proven that it exists.

    I have heard things like ‘more money is made in trafficking worldwide, than in the drug trade and arms trade combined.’ That is complete baloney. Really. You don’t make that much money in trafficking. But it is that kind of stupidity that drives the discourse.


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    #57
    Das Reich
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭Das Reich


    italodisco wrote: »
    Would have been against it until got married and my wife went from absolute sex devil to non interested selfish cow.

    If an escort is legitimately independent etc I see no wrong.

    I do everything for my wife and kid, everything. I get nothing in return. I don't cheat, I've had a zillion opportunities and said no. I've asked my wife recently to allow me find another married woman who is deprived and let me fulfil that sexual aspect , she said no.

    If she liked sex with you years ago and not now it might be because two causes, or she is having low hormones as women after 35 starts to be less fertile, in this case you should do something and help. The other case could be that she is not interested in sex with you, but she is still interested in sex. In this case you should investigate and go away if you discover the horns.


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    #58
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Once its consensual and done freely i have no issue with it.

    Its seen as wrong because if its not done freely its abusive and misogynist and women rightly oppose it.

    If it IS done freely then honestly it gives women a lot of power that a lot men don't like.


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    #59
    moonage
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭moonage


    Bx-HlnhIcAAiUi4.jpg


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    #60
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    moonage wrote: »
    Bx-HlnhIcAAiUi4.jpg


    Noice.

    For when hubby ain't bringing home the paycheck. ;)


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No little girl anywhere has ever dreamed of becoming a prostitute when they grow up.
    If any man thinks that any woman has entered into prostitution because they actually want to do it, they are kidding themselves.
    Yes many women do it, but don't fool yourselves into believing they actually want to do it.


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