Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

RobMc59 wrote: »

I agree that when the chips were down Ireland helped the UK out of the hole they had dug for themselves.If the UK leaves I would much rather it was on friendly terms with Ireland who are Britain's closest friend(which the UK government could see if they removed the scales from their eyes!)

Maybe if the language changed and we had a humbler approach from the UK, they could stay 'friends' with everyone.

Language like the 'EU refusing to budge' etc, when the facts are they budged several times.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's very clever and very accurate. Comes from a Greek fable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Woodcutter_and_the_Trees

A Man came into a forest, and made a petition to the Trees to provide him a handle for his axe.

The Trees consented to his request, and gave him a young ash-tree.

No sooner had the man fitted from it a new handle to his axe, than he began to use it, and quickly felled with his strokes the noblest giants of the forest.

An old oak, lamenting when too late the destruction of his companions, said to a neighboring cedar:

"The first step has lost us all. If we had not given up the rights of the ash, we might yet have retained our own privileges and have stood for ages."

RobMc59 wrote: »

I agree that when the chips were down Ireland helped the UK out of the hole they had dug for themselves.If the UK leaves I would much rather it was on friendly terms with Ireland who are Britain's closest friend(which the UK government could see if they removed the scales from their eyes!)

The Irish are far better friends to the UK and English than those deluded idiots north of the border in the DUP. I think the major diplomatic offensive of the past few weeks went a long way to ensuring GB support of the Irish position re hard border etc.
BoJo and co are only human too and will respond to reasonable discussions and mutually beneficial arrangements rather than the constant No No No sour pusses the DUP push out. Even Rees Mogg appears to have grown weary of them.

J Mysterio wrote: »

Sammy was insisting they would vote against.

I hope they do- it will pour petrol on and set a match to any morsel of political capital capital and goodwill the Dinosaurs thought they might have had in Westminister. Brexiters in England want Brexit far far more than they want these spongers hanging like nooses around the UK's neck.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Whatever happened to all of those ERG MPs who said they would follow the DUP's lead? It's almost as if they were just using the DUP as cover.

Well Rees Mogg was speaking earlier proclaiming what an excellent deal this for the North in particular- so when the hardest of hard brexiters is saying that then you know you're goosed.

road_high wrote: »

I hope they do- it will pour petrol on and set a match to any morsel of political capital capital and goodwill the Dinosaurs thought they might have had in Westminister. Brexiters in England want Brexit far far more than they want these spongers hanging like nooses around the UK's neck.

I would hope they abstain personally.

I know this is not a good deal for the UK, but it seems alright for Ireland on balance, and I want some forward momentum to a resolution at this point. Once the arrangements RE Ireland are in place, the UK can do what they want - spend 10 years in trade negotiations/ come crawling back/ whatever.

Leo Varadkar reassures the unionist people that they will be allowed post their letters in red letter boxes.


https://twitter.com/BBCNewsNI/status/1185204120946462724


Nigel Dodds issued an ENTIRE statement! (no really, he did) :eek:

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1185202527895261189

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Lord Kilcooney was on Radio Ulster Talkback at lunchtime and pointed out that this was the first step to a United Ireland as over time the NI companies will find trading with EU easier than into GB and vice versa. Hence gradual alignment within the island and over time unification becomes more likely. He also made a point about VAT issues (can't remember the issue but I think it was if GB lowered its rate to below EU rate, then NI companies would be disadvantaged.

Interestingly, an economist who spoke next agreed with his analysis of the deal.

<snip>

On his point on VAT I thought NI companies applied for a rebate to the UK gov if the EU VAT rate is greater than the GB VAT rate? And the other way?

Glad to see some people with "weight" behind them see things the same way I described on here last night. There's very little in this duality that is economically advantageous for NI, and even less that strengthens the Union - or even maintains the current relationship.

Rebates can be applied for, but it's one more reason not to do business with the territory. Not when there are other options.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Leo Varadkar reassures the unionist people that they will be allowed post their letters in red letter boxes.


https://twitter.com/BBCNewsNI/status/1185204120946462724


Nigel Dodds issued an ENTIRE statement! (no really, he did) :eek:

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1185202527895261189

Wonder was Leo just stirring the pot with them now?
Red post boxes. Sweet jesus. But for how long? Royal Mail could decide to abandon the place. Still very old ER ones around Kilkenny ....painted green

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If it fails they will be trumpeting that it is because the UK cares about the 'Union' with them, when it will in fact be about other political jockeying altogether.

This will be the 4th? time a PM has attempted to sell them out for their own expediency.

Who exactly? Labour, the SNP? There's clutching at straws and that. Tomorrows vote is all about Leave vs Remain in the UK parliament. NI is an irrelevant side show.

Varta wrote: »

Labour needs an upheaval. Corbyn and his followers are dinosaurs, there is no place for them in the 21st century. The working class would be better represented if labour were to come out of the 1970s. I don't believe the Lib Dems will increase that much and in the election following the next one, providing Labour has sorted itself out, the Lib Dems will just about disappear.

Your assumption is that Labour takes a position that people will believe. They will only do this if someone like Starmer becomes the next leader who has been a staunch Remainer, otherwise the Lib Dems will take votes from Labour. They will take votes from them from those that voted Remain, the 16 million voters that will see how Labour leadership has abdicated responsibility by asking about anything other than Brexit during PMQ's thus signalling their ambivalence towards Brexit and then by allowing Brexit to happen by having their MP's be the deciding votes to allow Brexit.

You can see it once Swinson became leader of the Lib Dems and the attack dogs was out looking at her voting record. Instead of going after the Tories they knew where the biggest threat was and it wasn't the Tories but the Lib Dems.

Either way, I hope we never find out who is right in this scenario as it will be very bad for the UK if this deal gets through tomorrow.

RobMc59 wrote: »

The UK does care about the Union,just not the DUP version of a Union..:rolleyes:

By the Uk I assume you must mean the government, and they don't care about the Union, why else would they have had the ERG and DUP for updates on Brexit but not the Scottish or Welsh Governments for updates?

Strazdas wrote: »

I've seen several British ones around Dublin still in use - usually with George V or Edward VII on them.

There's a Victorian one on the Ballinteer Road

The thread by Faisal Islam is the reason Labour should be whipping and voting against this deal

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1185182594566111232

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1185182594566111232.html

What time do events kick off tomorrow? (not the rugby, the politics)