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Bride and groom getting fired on Monday

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    #512
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,699 ✭✭✭buried


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I edited my post as I realised I didn't want to take it down that route.

    So, I don't think it is unacceptable to sing a sectarian song at a family event.

    IF your sectarian belief in any way inhibits your ability to teach/treat the public fairly and equally while working, then it is completely unacceptable. If you can leave your belief at the door, then its nobodys business.

    Unfortunately, people have seen this video and there are people like you who are baying for blood (metaphorically) , so they're screwed.

    I just think it's much ado about nothing.

    If you hold any sort of sectarian belief anywhere it literally proves you are sectarian.
    If you are sectarian still in Northern Ireland you are an absolute threat.
    All it takes is a tiny spark from some sectarian fool and the blood flows the streets again.
    Not acceptable.
    From anyone.
    Especially a supposed educator.
    Much ado about nothing, I dont think so dunne

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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    #513
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,407 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    buried wrote: »
    Stop moving goalposts to other political avenues that have literally nothing to do with the issue

    I told you numerous times so I'll do it again shall I?

    It is totally unacceptable to hold twistedly culturally sacred SECTARIAN beliefs if you are in the employ of a institution of a state that is trying to escape the threat of a violent SECTARIAN conflict within that state.

    Do you agree with any of that Dunne?

    How does singing that song prove they have sectarian beliefs?
    Fueled up on drink especially people would join in with any song.

    ----

    Also is it only educators that feel your wrath not former FAI CEO's GAA players and so on?




    Or is it all just good clean fun unless you happen to be a teacher!

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #514
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,699 ✭✭✭buried


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    How does singing that song prove they have sectarian beliefs?

    Are you serious?

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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    #515
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    How does singing that song prove they have sectarian beliefs?
    Just some background on the lyrics to that song - it was adopted as an anthem by Johnny Adair’s C company of the Shankill UDA. The actual lyrics are not to be taken literally. That seems to go over so many freestaters heads. They don’t hate the Church of Rome, this isn’t an ecumenical dispute. They hate the IRA and ALL Catholics, which to them are one and the same.


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    #516
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,407 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    buried wrote: »
    Are you serious?

    As I said how many people have said 'ooh and up the ra' 'Sinn Fein' IRA and never supported any of the above - just sang along with drunken chants?

    If the amount of people who sang those songs and actually joined the IRA and voted SF Ireland would be a very different place.
    Plus SF is trying to move away from the Knuckle dragging Celtic jersey wearing SF voter.

    Your main arguement seems to be that they are teachers - so you hold them on a very high standard - above former CEO's like John Delaney, Tyrone football players, or average celtic football fans.
    Why is it only teachers you seem to hold to this high standard?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #517
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,407 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    armaghlad wrote: »
    Just some background on the lyrics to that song - it was adopted as an anthem by Johnny Adair’s C company of the Shankill UDA. The actual lyrics are not to be taken literally. That seems to go over so many freestaters heads. They don’t hate the Church of Rome, this isn’t an ecumenical dispute. They hate the IRA and ALL Catholics, which to them are one and the same.

    So the fact they join in with it means they all wanted to be members of C Company come on.
    The fact you refer to me as a 'freestater' sums up your mindset - you cannot see the wood from the trees.

    Your mindset
    Irish rebel songs = Natural fun a bit of craic
    Anything on the other-side of the coin = abhorrent.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #518
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,699 ✭✭✭buried


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    As I said how many people have said 'ooh and up the ra' 'Sinn Fein' IRA and never supported any of the above - just sang along with drunken chants?

    Your main arguement seems to be that they are teachers - so you hold them on a very high standard - above former CEO's like John Delaney, Tyrone football players, or average celtic football fans.
    Why is it only teachers you seem to hold to this high standard?

    Because teachers are employed by the state, through the taxation of citizens just like me, just like you, they are employed by the state, paid for by us, to Educate our future generations.
    You dont think that should be held to a high standard?

    Once again, are you serious?

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Options
    #519
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    buried wrote: »
    If you hold any sort of sectarian belief anywhere it literally proves you are sectarian.
    If you are sectarian still in Northern Ireland you are an absolute threat.
    All it takes is a tiny spark from some sectarian fool and the blood flows the streets again.
    Not acceptable.
    From anyone.
    Especially a supposed educator.
    Much ado about nothing, I dont think so dunne

    Well thankfully, most people don't have such an apocalyptic view of drunkenly singing a song.


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    #520
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,699 ✭✭✭buried


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Your mindset Irish rebel songs = Natural fun a bit of craic
    Anything on the other-side of the coin = abhorrent.

    Please, show me exactly where I said that

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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    #521
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,699 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So I fully understand you, would a scenario where a teacher is recorded in a pub talking about his enthusiasm for the desmond child and support for gay burlesque troupe reading to children affect his teaching career?

    Or how about a teacher from Sweden who thinks the legal age of consent should be 15 as per his home country?

    I've no idea what / who the Desmond child is, and I'm not quite sure that drag storytelling is in quite the same league as promoting adult /teen sexual relationships.

    But the age of consent one is on target for sure - I would be of the view that having a teacher promoting a reduced age of consent could indeed have professional implications.

    How about you - would you be entirely happy to have a proud and vocal NAMBLA member teaching your teens?


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    #522
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    armaghlad wrote: »
    Just some background on the lyrics to that song - it was adopted as an anthem by Johnny Adair’s C company of the Shankill UDA. The actual lyrics are not to be taken literally. That seems to go over so many freestaters heads. They don’t hate the Church of Rome, this isn’t an ecumenical dispute. They hate the IRA and ALL Catholics, which to them are one and the same.

    When I sing along to NWA, am I part of a movement to **** all da police?


  • Options
    #523
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,699 ✭✭✭buried


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Well thankfully, most people don't have such an apocalyptic view of drunkenly singing a song.

    No just an apocalyptic view of sectarianism.
    Wasnt long ago we had it either.
    Seems like some are mad for it back.
    Possibly kids. Which is worrying but not surprising.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Options
    #524
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,407 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    buried wrote: »
    Please, show me exactly where I said that

    That was in reply to armaghlad.
    Who will no doubt find out where I live! Plus if I do not post again - I may or may not have ended up like your username!:D

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #525
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,699 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    partyguinness wrote: »
    Any other poster know what the fcuk is wrong with this guy? He needs to take the briar out of his ass.

    If you need clarification on any points, please let me know which bits you are struggling with.


  • Options
    #526
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    I've no idea what / who the Desmond child is, and I'm not quite sure that drag storytelling is in quite the same league as promoting adult /teen sexual relationships.

    But the age of consent one is on target for sure - I would be of the view that having a teacher promoting a reduced age of consent could indeed have professional implications.

    How about you - would you be entirely happy to have a proud and vocal NAMBLA member teaching your teens?

    Oh right, so we have moved on from a teacher who thinks the age of consent should be lowered to a proud and vocal member of an organisation that wants to abolish any age of consent for the express purpose to engage in a sexual relationship?

    Bit of a difference there.

    It would all depend on the motives really. If a teacher had valid motives for his advocacy for the reduction of the legal age limit and I had no reason to question his ethics, I think I would be ok with him voicing his opinion.

    The other extreme example you threw out there, no. I wouldn't be ok with Nambla.


  • Options
    #527
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,407 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    buried wrote: »
    Because teachers are employed by the state, through the taxation of citizens just like me, just like you, they are employed by the state, paid for by us, to Educate our future generations.
    You dont think that should be held to a high standard?

    Once again, are you serious?

    Those teachers are not employed by your state so I would not worry about it.
    Were you as outraged by John Delaney singning a rebel song?
    Have you ever sang a rebel song?
    If so - and you were recorded should you be sacked?
    Or does it only apply to civil servants who are drunk at a wedding?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #528
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,407 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Oh right, so we have moved on from a teacher who thinks the age of consent should be lowered to a proud and vocal member of an organisation that wants to abolish any age of consent for the express purpose to engage in a sexual relationship?

    Bit of a difference there.

    It would all depend on the motives really. If a teacher had valid motives for his advocacy for the reduction of the legal age limit and I had no reason to question his ethics, I think I would be ok with him voicing his opinion.

    The other extreme example you threw out there, no. I wouldn't be ok with Nambla.

    I wouldn't waste your energy AndrewJRenko does not only move the goalposts, he moves the whole stadium to another planet. NAMBLA :D

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #529
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,699 ✭✭✭buried


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Those teachers are not employed by your state so I would not worry about it.

    Yeah you are right sure it's what 4000 miles away on another continent right?
    Were you as outraged by John Delaney singning a rebel song?

    Yes.
    Have you ever sang a rebel song?
    If so - and you were recorded should you be sacked?

    No never sang a webel song so there you go.

    Or does it only apply to civil servants who are drunk at a wedding?

    Yes. El vino Veritas.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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    #530
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    buried wrote: »

    No never sang a webel song so there you go.

    But anyone that has should not be able to be employed by the state?


  • Options
    #531
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,699 ✭✭✭buried


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    But anyone that has should not be able to be employed by the state?

    If it's a song that is wilfully glorifying sectarian conflict with a current cultural or religious institution, then yes they should not be paid by the general citizenry, some of whom would be definite members of that cultural or religious institution. What is the problem? Why should those peoples hard earned money pay sectarianism through taxation?

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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    #532
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    buried wrote: »
    If it's a song that is wilfully glorifying sectarian conflict with a current cultural or religious institution, then yes they should not be paid by the general citizenry, some of whom would be definite members of that cultural or religious institution. What is the problem? Why should those peoples hard earned money pay sectarianism through taxation?

    I have no problem chief. I just think its a little short sighted and simplistic to say that anyone that has ever sang a song that contained contentious lyrics regarding the troubles up the north or included some football chant style sectarian parts is a dirty bigot and should never be employed by the state.

    Its a little silly to be honest.


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    #533
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,699 ✭✭✭buried


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I have no problem chief. I just think its a little short sighted and simplistic to say that anyone that has ever sang a song that contained contentious lyrics regarding the troubles up the north or included some football chant style sectarian parts is a dirty bigot and should never be employed by the state.

    Its a little silly to be honest.

    Well, that's your opinion you are entitled to it.

    I have no time for the slightest ounce of sectarianism and I'll be damned to agree to have tax money be given to any sort of sectarian bigot anywhere, especially a supposed educator.

    You find that silly, fair enough. I dont. Far from it. I leave it at that.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Options
    #534
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,365 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    buried wrote: »
    It is totally unacceptable to hold twistedly culturally sacred SECTARIAN beliefs if you are in the employ of a institution of a state that is trying to escape the threat of a violent SECTARIAN conflict within that state.

    Unfortunately their education system is itself sectarian.

    So is ours...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #535
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,262 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    buried wrote: »

    No never sang a webel song so there you go.

    Welease Wodger.


  • Options
    #536
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,699 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    I wouldn't waste your energy AndrewJRenko does not only move the goalposts, he moves the whole stadium to another planet. NAMBLA biggrin.png
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Oh right, so we have moved on from a teacher who thinks the age of consent should be lowered to a proud and vocal member of an organisation that wants to abolish any age of consent for the express purpose to engage in a sexual relationship?

    Bit of a difference there.

    It would all depend on the motives really. If a teacher had valid motives for his advocacy for the reduction of the legal age limit and I had no reason to question his ethics, I think I would be ok with him voicing his opinion.

    The other extreme example you threw out there, no. I wouldn't be ok with Nambla.
    Nothing has moved - that's exactly where I started out, with NAMBLA - remember this post?


    But it's good to see that we've established a principle that private statements of a teacher can have an impact on their professional status.


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    #537
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,334 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    buried wrote: »
    No never sang a webel song so there you go.
    .

    not even The Fields of Athenry?


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    #538
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,407 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    buried wrote: »
    Yeah you are right sure it's what 4000 miles away on another continent right?



    Yes.



    No never sang a webel song so there you go.




    Yes. El vino Veritas.
    Fair enough as long as you would treat all people the same regardless.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #539
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    buried wrote: »
    If you hold any sort of sectarian belief anywhere it literally proves you are sectarian.
    If you are sectarian still in Northern Ireland you are an absolute threat.
    All it takes is a tiny spark from some sectarian fool and the blood flows the streets again.
    Not acceptable.
    From anyone.
    Especially a supposed educator.
    Much ado about nothing, I dont think so dunne

    the north is more sectarian now than it was 20 years ago. its not going to be 'some sectarian fool' that'll make ' blood flows the streets again' - it'll be a border which is on the menu a la brexit


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    #540
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,535 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    not even The Fields of Athenry?

    It's the fields of athenwy


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    #541
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    So the fact they join in with it means they all wanted to be members of C Company come on.
    The fact you refer to me as a 'freestater' sums up your mindset - you cannot see the wood from the trees.

    Your mindset
    Irish rebel songs = Natural fun a bit of craic
    Anything on the other-side of the coin = abhorrent.
    What part of the north are you from? I’m assuming you don’t have to share a village, town or city with these people. I’m assuming you don’t have a Soldier F banner draped across your town centre? (Oddly enough Jennie Andrews has an “I stand with Soldier F” frame on her Facebook profile picture). They’re staunch loyalists. Normal Protestants don’t sing songs like this in the same manner people from a nationalist background might sing an oul drunken rendition of the fields of Athenry. I know it seems hypocritical but it’s just the way it is up here. Loyalists are inherently sectarian whether they care to admit it or not; it’s manifested in their culture and it shows on occasions like this or the bar in Belfast that had the NI fans singing about hating Catholics.


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