Girls don't cycle! Guess whos fault it is?

20-09-2019 05:08PM

Sardonicat wrote: »

So you really don't want to answer the question?
Suggesting to black children that racial harassment will occur due to a minority of racist white folks is a fact of life and the means of tackling it at a societal level starts and ends with teaching them emotional resilience is not an adequate response, according to you.

Teaching female children that sexual harassment is a fact of life due to a minority of misogynistic men and tackling it at a societal level starts and ends with teaching them emotional resilience IS a perfectly adequate response at a societal level.

Is that your view?

the only actual issue I can find fault with there is the addition of "and ends with" tbh

Seth Brundle · 20-09-2019 05:08PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Cars have these big bright things called lights - which are very hard to miss. I always leave the small lights on no matter what the weather. Makes a big difference in the avoidance of any accidents.
In Sweden it is actually a legal requirement.

So if you're saying that cars are highly visible because they have big bright lights, why do other drivers frequently crash into them?

20-09-2019 05:12PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Like most cyclists, I have a car. I just don't have time to sit around in traffic increasing my cancer and heart disease rates.

jesus renko

i know you struggle with rage issues buddy, but thumbing your nose at the thousands of commuters that suffer these life-threatening conditions every year and the effects on their families is not a good look

have a word with yourself man for gods sake

wakka12 · 20-09-2019 05:14PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Hi Vis vests are the bane of cyclists. They're cycling, not going to a building site. If hi vis is so key to road safety why aren't cars painted with hi viz paint?

Because the car isnt going to get killed in the collision situation, they are loud and big and heavy and cyclists at the mercy of them need to illuminate themselves to avoid them

AndrewJRenko · 20-09-2019 05:18PM

wakka12 wrote: »

namloc1980 wrote: »

Hi Vis vests are the bane of cyclists. They're cycling, not going to a building site. If hi vis is so key to road safety why aren't cars painted with hi viz paint?

Because the car isnt going to get killed in the collision situation, they are loud and big and heavy and cyclists at the mercy of them need to illuminate themselves to avoid them

Far more motorists and passengers are killed on the road than cyclists.

So again I ask, why don't we mandate hi-vis stripes on all cars and vans?

AndrewJRenko · 20-09-2019 05:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Like most cyclists, I have a car. I just don't have time to sit around in traffic increasing my cancer and heart disease rates.

jesus renko

i know you struggle with rage issues buddy, but thumbing your nose at the thousands of commuters that suffer these life-threatening conditions every year and the effects on their families is not a good look

have a word with yourself man for gods sake

There’s no thumbing of noses by me. Every single post by me is aimed at reducing the rates of incidence of those conditions.

But if you really are concerned about those conditions, maybe direct a bit of your concern at those who make proposals that will actually increase the rates - like banning cycling or mandatory helmet laws.

Greyfox · 20-09-2019 05:21PM

Sardonicat wrote: »

So sexual harassment shouldn't be prosecuted?

Sardonicat wrote: »

So you really don't want to answer the question?

If you actually read the response you'll see that the poster never said that sexual harassment shouldn't be prosecuted. The problem is its very difficult to prosecute without proof

gormdubhgorm · 20-09-2019 05:27PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So if you're saying that cars are highly visible because they have big bright lights, why do other drivers frequently crash into them?

Do you realise how silly this sounds?
There are other obvious variables at play which I will not go into here as it would derail the thread about girls and thier unwillingness to cycle.

It is clear that being visible on the road regardless of the mode of transport means less accidents.
Regardless of the gender of any cyclist being visible is a crucial aspect.
Hi-vis jackets are not designed as fashion statements they are designed to save lives of one of the most vulnerable users of the road after pedestrians.

Also many girls are anti-exercise particularly when they hit thier mid teens and trail away from team sports.
Cycling, Swimming, Tennis are normally the few pastimes that girls keep up other than team sports in thier later life.

Maybe more fashionable cycling gear could be developed for young girls while at the same time being visible and safe?

gormdubhgorm · 20-09-2019 05:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Cycling is probably a touchy subject for the trans crowd..

I dunno those transformer bikes are fairly cool I think

gormdubhgorm · 20-09-2019 05:45PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You seem to be avoiding the question about the impact of another 50k cars on the road. Would you like to revisit that please?

And perhaps you could explain why doubling your risk of heart disease and near doubling your risk of cancer is 'growing up'?

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2017/0828/900502-the-health-benefits-of-cycling-to-work-are-staggering/

Are people really that petty and small minded that they are impressed by car ownership?

DelBoy Trotter wrote: »

Do you search Boards for every thread that has any mention of bikes? You seem to be routinely arriving in threads about bikes to make them into a bikes V everybody else on the road argument

Some types of people are just prone to really fixate with certain subjects, and want to shoehorn thier narrative agenda into it not matter what.
But sure each to thier own.

Ten of Swords · 20-09-2019 05:48PM

Mod

Thread is going very off topic now. Enough with the Cyclists vs Motorist posts, from all sides please

Ulysses Gaze · 20-09-2019 05:48PM

The article can be summed by this clip...

suicide_circus · 20-09-2019 05:53PM

Sardonicat wrote: »

So you really don't want to answer the question?
Suggesting to black children that racial harassment will occur due to a minority of racist white folks is a fact of life and the means of tackling it at a societal level starts and ends with teaching them emotional resilience is not an adequate response, according to you.

Teaching female children that sexual harassment is a fact of life due to a minority of misogynistic men and tackling it at a societal level starts and ends with teaching them emotional resilience IS a perfectly adequate response at a societal level.

Is that your view?

against my better judgement and despite the bad faith responses i will engage one last time.

Its not all or nothing. Promoting resilience is not an alternative to seeking societal change, its something that runs in parallel.

Social attitudes change. Slowly. In the meantime, women need to be able to use bicycles. Now, thousands if not tens of thousands of women and girls use bicycles daily in Ireland, weathering the storm of harassment, cat calls, wolf whistles and sexual assault which this thread has taught me are the bane of females on two wheels and which this genderbaiting article claims to be keeping this country's girls off the bikes.

Did we need the Indo to tell us that anti social and criminal behaviours are bad and have consequences for society? No. We already knew that. All crime should be prosecuted including sexual harassment. Obviously.

ED E · 20-09-2019 05:59PM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

This is one the tropes that are thrown around by the cyclist lobby. Essentially it boils down to "helmets / hi vis doesn't look cool so we shouldn't have to wear it" - a nonsense reason for not using proven safety gear of course. No different whatsoever from a driver refusing to use a seat belt because it's not 'cool'.

Hi vis (by which I'm presuming you refer to fluorescent jackets etc, rather than reflective gear) uses colour wavelengths which the human eye is most sensitive to - just because some cyclists feel it's uncool doesn't mean it doesn't work. Your car quip is also much beloved of the usual Boards cyclist brigade - a car of course is bigger and faster moving and therefore much more easily discerned by the human brain (which is attuned to movement) and of course the driver is far less vulnerable than a cyclist (especially those who refuse to take responsibility for their own safety by eschewing helmets etc). All cars in the EU are now required to be equipped with daytime running lights which of courses enhances visibility - much like hi vis.

Black cars are involved in more crashes. Ban black cars while you're at it.

AndrewJRenko · 20-09-2019 07:06PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Do you realise how silly this sounds?
There are other obvious variables at play which I will not go into here as it would derail the thread about girls and thier unwillingness to cycle.

It is clear that being visible on the road regardless of the mode of transport means less accidents.

So you'd be in favour of hi-vis stripes on all sides of all cars then? Will you be getting your hi-vis stripes for your car this weekend?

Church on Tuesday · 20-09-2019 07:11PM

"...and boys and men are the ones we need to educate"

Er... no. No it's not. It's girls and women that need to be educated in the relative pros and cons of cycling in general.

The grown women, I assume, will know and have their reasons for same already.

But nice try Tanya all the same.

Reviews and Books Galore · 20-09-2019 07:25PM

Candie wrote: »

I'm 32, it was a fair while ago (I was 13) and in England but I meet harassment more often than I'd like if I'm out running alone and it's not a huge cultural gap, if any at all.

I've never seen anyone beaten up, m partner was never beaten up, my brother was never beaten up, I don't know man who was just beaten up on a night out. Does that mean it doesn't happen or it's a rare event? Course not.

British men are weird. When I pass them they comment on my hair, outfit, pants, posture, what have you. Guffawing like a herd of geese and jockeying around my space. Happens more times than I can count tbh.

The women aren't much better. They seem to be cackliung like hyenas.

Reviews and Books Galore · 20-09-2019 07:27PM

Candie wrote: »

Indeed I am. And so is that poster, engaging in discussion on a discussion site, who doesn't need you to police them.

Thank you for the comment.

AndrewJRenko · 20-09-2019 09:29PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

"...and boys and men are the ones we need to educate"

Er... no. No it's not. It's girls and women that need to be educated in the relative pros and cons of cycling in general.

The grown women, I assume, will know and have their reasons for same already.

But nice try Tanya all the same.

I'm not sure that educating girls and women is going to do much to stop the problem of being harassed by men, unless you're talking about educating them in Krav Maga so they can knock seven kinds of sh1te out of their harassers?

To be honest, I'm not sure that broad education of men and boys is really going to work either. I think it needs perhaps a more direct approach, of taking fairly direct action when this is happening on the street. If it is young lads having a go, there is a good chance that the lads will be in one or other school uniform, which opens a channel for getting it sorted.

Church on Tuesday · 21-09-2019 12:25AM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm not sure that educating girls and women is going to do much to stop the problem of being harassed by men, unless you're talking about educating them in Krav Maga so they can knock seven kinds of sh1te out of their harassers?

To be honest, I'm not sure that broad education of men and boys is really going to work either. I think it needs perhaps a more direct approach, of taking fairly direct action when this is happening on the street. If it is young lads having a go, there is a good chance that the lads will be in one or other school uniform, which opens a channel for getting it sorted.

Or they could just develop a thick skin?

Women have been cat called for aeons. Does it make it right? No. But it is something that happens. Always will.

Women can be pretty nasty to other women too bare in mind, especially young girls trying to figure out who they are in school and some girls will get dogs abuse from other girls decked out in (understandably) safety gear if they are cycling to school I guarantee... Do not for one second think that women get abuse from solely men, young or otherwise.

That is simply the reality of things. The real world is a harsh place.

gormdubhgorm · 21-09-2019 12:54AM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you'd be in favour of hi-vis stripes on all sides of all cars then? Will you be getting your hi-vis stripes for your car this weekend?

Sorry I know from previous experience engaging with you is a waste of time.
Just so you know you are on my ignore list.
I am only responding to you out of courtesy and concern for your well being - genuinely.
As I hope you get the help you need to live a fulfilling and happy life.
I think you need to stick to the topic in the thread at hand, and find the skills to be aware when you go beyond said topic.
That is my two cents on it.
Just analyse your post above or get someone close to you/a few friends to read it.
Then ask yourself am I making sense?
Or do I sound a bit off there?

Victor · 21-09-2019 03:36AM

vicwatson wrote: »

“the ones who do cycle say verbal harassment from boys and men is a top deterrent”

What the f is that all about?

I think a lot of guys could admit to having made an inappropriate comment to a girl or woman. I remember wolf-whistling at a young woman (we were each cycling, but in different directions) when I was 16. Having done it, I then didn't know what to do next. She didn't rip off her clothes and demand to make love to me. I didn't do it again. Doing stuff like this once might be understandable, as we experiment and make our way in the world, but it isn't really acceptable.

Many guys can probably remember having done worse, especially with a bit of drink on board. The drink might explain it, but it doesn't justify it - if you break social norms when you are drunk, stop getting drunk.

Then there is a proportion of guys who engage in harassment all day every day. Often other guys don't see or hear it, but it still happens.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 21-09-2019 03:43AM

At the elite levels men are better at all sports because they're physically superior.

This is due to nature, not social construct.

Victor · 21-09-2019 04:10AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

At the elite levels men are better at all sports because they're physically superior.

This is due to nature, not social construct.

While this thread is about utility cycling, Fiona Kolbinger disagrees with you. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/aug/06/fiona-kolbinger-first-woman-win-transcontinental-cycling-race

DEFTLEFTHAND · 21-09-2019 04:37AM

Victor wrote: »

While this thread is about utility cycling, Fiona Kolbinger disagrees with you. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/aug/06/fiona-kolbinger-first-woman-win-transcontinental-cycling-race

But would she win a Giro, TDF or Vuelta?

Pro cycling is very different to an amateur charity tour in all respects.

HappyAsLarE · 21-09-2019 08:56AM

While I can accept that women may experience verbal harassment while cycling, there is absolutely no point in whinging to the public about it. That won’t change the behaviour of the type of person that harasses. The solution is to call them a fat baldy effer and to save it for their skanky wife.

AndrewJRenko · 21-09-2019 09:49AM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Or they could just develop a thick skin?

Women have been cat called for aeons. Does it make it right? No. But it is something that happens. Always will.

Women can be pretty nasty to other women too bare in mind, especially young girls trying to figure out who they are in school and some girls will get dogs abuse from other girls decked out in (understandably) safety gear if they are cycling to school I guarantee... Do not for one second think that women get abuse from solely men, young or otherwise.

That is simply the reality of things. The real world is a harsh place.

I grew up in the 70s with BBC and ITV comedians doing 'paki' jokes, Paddy jokes, 'poof' jokes and 'my wife' jokes. That was 'simply the reality of things'.

The reality of things changed because decent people decided that this wasn't acceptable - so they changed it. If you don't want your daughters, your nieces, your sisters to have to put up with this crap, you need to change. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Sorry I know from previous experience engaging with you is a waste of time.
Just so you know you are on my ignore list.
I am only responding to you out of courtesy and concern for your well being - genuinely.
As I hope you get the help you need to live a fulfilling and happy life.
I think you need to stick to the topic in the thread at hand, and find the skills to be aware when you go beyond said topic.
That is my two cents on it.
Just analyse your post above or get someone close to you/a few friends to read it.
Then ask yourself am I making sense?
Or do I sound a bit off there?

Thanks for the advice. I've gone back and analysed the post above. I'm perfectly happy with it.

If you're finding it difficult to argue with it on any rational basis, that speaks volumes.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

At the elite levels men are better at all sports because they're physically superior.

This is due to nature, not social construct.

What's this got to do with the topic in hand?

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

While I can accept that women may experience verbal harassment while cycling, there is absolutely no point in whinging to the public about it. That won’t change the behaviour of the type of person that harasses. The solution is to call them a fat baldy effer and to save it for their skanky wife.

I'm not sure this is good advice, because;
a) if they're a few 16 year old lads, they won't be fat or baldy or have skanky wives, and more importantly
b) that's probably exactly the kind of reaction they want. They are trolls, who will delight in getting that kind of reaction.

Wibbs · 21-09-2019 09:51AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

But would she win a Giro, TDF or Vuelta?

Pro cycling is very different to an amateur charity tour in all respects.

Aye, way more drugs in the former. Allegedly...

Wibbs · 21-09-2019 09:55AM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Sittingpretty · 21-09-2019 10:05AM

I’ll be hung out to dry for this but sure isn’t everything men’s fault now? Isn’t it up to men to fix every societal wrong that they are responsible for.

This third wave feminism nonsense is far too happy to firmly place women into victim hood.

Such a nonsense article. How many men (even the oaf ones) would risk wolf whistling a teenage girl on a bike these days? Very few I’d wager because they know before the whistle is done they’ll be on Facebook and vigilantes will be at their door.

The lack of young female cyclists I’d expect is far more to do with having to wear safety gear, their parents not allowing them because it’s not safe because our roads are not suitable for the most part for cyclists and thirdly they’re teenagers, most are far too lazy to hop up on their bikes in the rain when they can be carted to school in the comfort of the family car while retaining their polished brows and no helmet hair.

TLDR: It’s not men’s fault.

Girls don't cycle! Guess whos fault it is?

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