Cork developments

Flesh Gorden · 11-09-2019 12:21pm

Something I meant to ask for a while, but does anyone actually know the link between An Taisce and UCC?

An Taisce object to every ambitious development for the city, except for the continued sprawl of UCC into the city centre.

To An Taisce, building up on brownfield sites is not okay, but gutting the old medical building in UCC and sticking a 5 storey shed extension on top is perfectly acceptable.

I was only reminded by an article about the awarding of a 4th Green Flag by An Taisce to UCC, whatever the hell that means.

fonecrusher1 · 11-09-2019 1:08pm

How come the eternal whingers weren't objecting to this yoke in UCC?

Yet they're foaming at the mouth about a tall building on what is essentially wasteland. "In their objection, An Taisce said changes to the site would completely alter the integrity of the existing buildings and their setting"

:rolleyes:

An Taisce. A waste of space group who wait for new proposed developments and object to them purely to justify their own existence.

Tomtom364 · 11-09-2019 1:33pm

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

How come the eternal whingers weren't objecting to this yoke in UCC?

Yet they're foaming at the mouth about a tall building on what is essentially wasteland. "In their objection, An Taisce said changes to the site would completely alter the integrity of the existing buildings and their setting"

:rolleyes:

An Taisce. A waste of space group who wait for new proposed developments and object to them purely to justify their own existence.

I hate to defend An Taisce but that building in question, the previously poorly added extensions were demolished, and the existing 19th Century protected structure, parts of which were uncovered/salvaged from previously completed works, was almost entirely retained bar I think 1 new doorway.

Internally it was restored from a very poor state.

The new structure there was built next to the existing building with a linking corridor running between them.

opus · 11-09-2019 2:00pm

You can listen to a talking head from An Taisce saying the docklands tower shouldn't be allowed on Newstalk this morning - SHOULD IRELAND'S TALLEST BUILDING BE BUILT ON CORK'S CUSTOM HOUSE QUAY?

Personally think it should!

Frederick Clinton Quimby · 11-09-2019 2:26pm

opus wrote: »

You can listen to a talking head from An Taisce saying the docklands tower shouldn't be allowed on Newstalk this morning -

Personally think it should!

Another Dub sticking his nose in. If St. Anne's Shandon and St. Finbarr's and Holy Trinity never existed and they had to get approval today, they'd be up in arms about that too.

ontheditch2 · 11-09-2019 4:31pm

snotboogie wrote: »

I actually have a lot of time for Frank Crowley, I would agree with him on 95% of what he says and he is a measured voice in the media who is willing to stand up to sacred cow vested interests who are always trotted out around public transport and urbanization. His opposition to the M20 and and in particular the NRR is perplexing though. He is totally incapable of answering where the international precedent for not linking cities with a motorway or creating a ring-road around a city actually is. I would support very tight zoning around the roads to prevent sprawl which I am also against but roads exist for more than just commuting. He also seems to work off the premise that money not invested in roads in Cork will go straight into public transport in Cork, rather than the reality where its either money for roads or money invested elsewhere. Lastly he takes a particular interest in protesting against Cork projects, where was he when we were spending hundreds of millions linking Gort to Tuam?

I'd imagine his point, which you've referenced is that money spent on roads would be way better spent upgrading the public transport system in the city, but you are right in what you referenced "it's for roads or nothing".
If they are building a northern ring road, they should only have 1 exit on it. Start at junction 8 on M8 in Glanmire, one exit to the N/M20 in Blarney and join the N22 beyond Ballincollig. Use it for traffic going from East or West to go North. That's it. The N40 is a joke with the amount of exits between Mahon and Ballincollig. But wait and see, the same people giving out about articulate trucks going through residential areas will also be the people looking for ab exit close to their location.

marno21 · 11-09-2019 5:36pm

There should be a multi lane motorway between J18 on the M8, to Killeens, to the Carrigrohane roundabout in Ballincollig, then incorporating the existing DC from there to Curraheen and on over the hill to north of Ballinhassig joining up with a new N71 dual carriageway heading west.

Definite junctions at the M8, M20, Carrigrohane and a freeflow M40/M22/M71 interchange at Curraheen. 1/2 more exits along the way but clear rules regarding zoning of land around these junctions, no more Mahon Points etc.

There are currently no firm plans to do the above which will cost a small fortune, and that's before the costs in future for the no firm plans for a motorway to Macroom and Youghal, and large scale need for improved N71 beyond Halfway including proper bypasses of Bandon, Inishannon and Clonakilty.

And before I get questioned on the need for this, remember that Galway is getting a large scale orbital motorway, and has a motorway to Tuam along with the commuter towns on the M18, Limerick is getting a motorway to Rathkeale, down the N24 and the M20/M18, and Waterford is getting a motorway/DC to New Ross and Clonmel and onto Limerick.

Many routes out of Cork don't double up as intercity motorways but are still required.

It's high time there was some proper ambition to build the required road network around Cork instead of the overcapacity pile of ****e we currently have.

opus · 11-09-2019 7:46pm

There goes a chuck of the shaky bridge.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 11-09-2019 8:46pm

marno21 wrote: »

There should be a multi lane motorway between J18 on the M8, to Killeens, to the Carrigrohane roundabout in Ballincollig, then incorporating the existing DC from there to Curraheen and on over the hill to north of Ballinhassig joining up with a new N71 dual carriageway heading west.

Definite junctions at the M8, M20, Carrigrohane and a freeflow M40/M22/M71 interchange at Curraheen. 1/2 more exits along the way but clear rules regarding zoning of land around these junctions, no more Mahon Points etc.

There are currently no firm plans to do the above which will cost a small fortune, and that's before the costs in future for the no firm plans for a motorway to Macroom and Youghal, and large scale need for improved N71 beyond Halfway including proper bypasses of Bandon, Inishannon and Clonakilty.

And before I get questioned on the need for this, remember that Galway is getting a large scale orbital motorway, and has a motorway to Tuam along with the commuter towns on the M18, Limerick is getting a motorway to Rathkeale, down the N24 and the M20/M18, and Waterford is getting a motorway/DC to New Ross and Clonmel and onto Limerick.

Many routes out of Cork don't double up as intercity motorways but are still required.

It's high time there was some proper ambition to build the required road network around Cork instead of the overcapacity pile of ****e we currently have.

Maybe if we had voted for a directly elected Mayor we would have had someone to advocate for these things on a permanent ongoing basis.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 11-09-2019 11:45pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Maybe if we had voted for a directly elected Mayor we would have had someone to advocate for these things on a permanent ongoing basis.

We have the Tánaiste and the leader of the main opposition party (propping up the Government), but a Mayor would swing things for us in Cork?
This is the type of vague stuff that hampered those in favor of such as Mayor as the position was never clarified as to exactly what powers they would have.

leahyl · 12-09-2019 8:20am

marno21 wrote: »

There should be a multi lane motorway between J18 on the M8, to Killeens, to the Carrigrohane roundabout in Ballincollig, then incorporating the existing DC from there to Curraheen and on over the hill to north of Ballinhassig joining up with a new N71 dual carriageway heading west.

Definite junctions at the M8, M20, Carrigrohane and a freeflow M40/M22/M71 interchange at Curraheen. 1/2 more exits along the way but clear rules regarding zoning of land around these junctions, no more Mahon Points etc.

There are currently no firm plans to do the above which will cost a small fortune, and that's before the costs in future for the no firm plans for a motorway to Macroom and Youghal, and large scale need for improved N71 beyond Halfway including proper bypasses of Bandon, Inishannon and Clonakilty.

And before I get questioned on the need for this, remember that Galway is getting a large scale orbital motorway, and has a motorway to Tuam along with the commuter towns on the M18, Limerick is getting a motorway to Rathkeale, down the N24 and the M20/M18, and Waterford is getting a motorway/DC to New Ross and Clonmel and onto Limerick.

Many routes out of Cork don't double up as intercity motorways but are still required.

It's high time there was some proper ambition to build the required road network around Cork instead of the overcapacity pile of ****e we currently have.

Absolutely, but if they can't even resurface one of the main roads into the city (Lower Glanmire Road), there isn't much hope for the above :-(

namloc1980 · 12-09-2019 8:55am

munstermagic11 wrote: »

We have the Tánaiste and the leader of the main opposition party (propping up the Government), but a Mayor would swing things for us in Cork?
This is the type of vague stuff that hampered those in favor of such as Mayor as the position was never clarified as to exactly what powers they would have.

It would have been the Mayor's full time job to advocate for Cork. Coveney and Martin are absolutely useless for Cork (guaranteed to be re-elected too I'd bet). What we know for certain is that the ceremonial Lord Mayor is a complete waste of everyone's time and money.

Captainsatnav · 12-09-2019 9:35am

munstermagic11 wrote: »

We have the Tánaiste and the leader of the main opposition party (propping up the Government), but a Mayor would swing things for us in Cork?
This is the type of vague stuff that hampered those in favor of such as Mayor as the position was never clarified as to exactly what powers they would have.

The mayor would have had exectutive powers laid down in statute and 100% of his/her role would be as CEO of the City. The Tánaiste and leader of the main opposition party are at national level, not local. They have to take a national view, not parish pump. If they did, they wouldn't last long in respective roles. If one of the Healy-Rae's was Tánaiaste, do you think the cabinet would stand for their "people of south Kerry" parochial bullsh1t?

shnaek · 12-09-2019 9:46am

leahyl wrote: »

Absolutely, but if they can't even resurface one of the main roads into the city (Lower Glanmire Road), there isn't much hope for the above :-(

I was chatting one of the owners of a business on that road and they will be resurfacing it soon.

shnaek · 12-09-2019 9:53am

Flesh Gorden wrote: »

Same thing that went through my head when I saw the headline.

Last week they thad an article from a UCC 'expert' saying we would be delusional to build new roads.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Growth-plans-for-Cork-are-delusional-if-we-focus-on-building-roads-c639a053-2d48-410d-a764-723cc51bce45-ds

So should we listen to city councillors with feedback form residents and businesses or a person who has been in the education bubble their entire life with a 5min walk from their office to their house?

Build the North Ring Road and you remove the HGVs from unsuitable roads and probably the majority of cross city private traffic, then do what you want with mass transit options, road restrictions etc..

Anyone who listens to academics without adding a large pinch of salt to what they're saying is crazy. They live in a bubble world. It's like listening to the person who talks about doing things rather than the person who actually does things. A north ring road with limited exits around Cork is absolutely essential to take traffic out of the city. Look to examples all over the world - are their big cities bypassed on only one side? There's the real world, and fairyland world, and academics tend to live in the latter. That's great, we need dreamers, but we also need to keep hold of reality.

bingo9999 · 12-09-2019 12:12pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

We have the Tánaiste and the leader of the main opposition party (propping up the Government), but a Mayor would swing things for us in Cork?
This is the type of vague stuff that hampered those in favor of such as Mayor as the position was never clarified as to exactly what powers they would have.

To be fair the Tanaiste is the head of Dep Foreign Affairs, and its an unusually demanding time for that, so fair enough if he doesnt have time to be a Cork mayor on the side. I dont have a similar excuse for Michael Martin, he occasionally joins a chorus asking for more but for the most part seems to be content to sit back and let Fine Gael blow themselves up. I for one think a dedicated full time voice for Cork would only do us good. Alas not to be, though interested to see how it goes for Limerick

bingo9999 · 12-09-2019 12:24pm

shnaek wrote: »

Anyone who listens to academics without adding a large pinch of salt to what they're saying is crazy. They live in a bubble world. It's like listening to the person who talks about doing things rather than the person who actually does things. A north ring road with limited exits around Cork is absolutely essential to take traffic out of the city. Look to examples all over the world - are their big cities bypassed on only one side? There's the real world, and fairyland world, and academics tend to live in the latter. That's great, we need dreamers, but we also need to keep hold of reality.

I think there is an equilibrium level we need to hit with this, and I dont Cork is at it yet. If you look at places like Houston when the road get clogged with traffic they build more roads and so driving is the best/only show in town for transport and more people buy cars/ move in. Cork needs to diversify to a multi-modal transport model badly, and I heavily think Cork luas, bus connects etc. should be sped up to offer as much non-car, best option transport to as many as possible. But to say that we should not build any new roads is madness, if that theory was to hold it would mean that northside or Macroom traffic chaos would drive people to give up their cars, it hasnt. The car is and will remain the primary intercity, business and freight method of choice unless trains, trams and bikes can do it better and that would take a lot in a small country. We need to get the everyday commute of as many as possible into PT. I lived in Dublin and took the luas daily, in no way would taking the car have made more sense in terms of traffic or parking. But that alternative doesnt exist here, if it did people would flock to it

marno21 · 12-09-2019 1:56pm

Without directly replying to the post above, I'll briefly outline roughly the volume:capacity ratio on Cork's approach roads. These are back of a fag packet calculations so if anyone would like to correct them feel free:

M8 Glanmire: 0.44:1

N20 2+1: 1.26:1
N20 Blarney: 0.6:1

N22 Ovens: 2.2:1

N25 Castlemartyr: 1.5:1

N28 Carrs Hill: 2.62:1

N71 Chetwynd: 2.32:1
N71 Halfway: 1.75:1
N71 Inishannon East: 1.67:1

All approach roads that aren't motorway are obscenely over capacity. TII like to prioritise upgrades with ratios > 1.2:1 so the above not being pushed represents a serious lack of political will somewhere. There is a middle ground between Interstate 405 in LA and the mess we have in Cork, and I think the post I made yesterday represents a reasonable compromise.

All the above overcapacity roads have frequent unsafe junctions, run through villages, run past houses and are not suitable for the volume of traffic, especially heavy traffic using them.

snotboogie · 12-09-2019 2:18pm

Good news on Event Centre funding coming tomorrow

leahyl · 12-09-2019 2:38pm

snotboogie wrote: »

Good news on Event Centre funding coming tomorrow

Do tell :pac:

namloc1980 · 12-09-2019 2:54pm

snotboogie wrote: »

Good news on Event Centre funding coming tomorrow

.

This doesn't sound hugely positive.

snotboogie · 12-09-2019 2:59pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

.

This doesn't sound hugely positive.

I heard that it is positive, I guess we'll see tomorrow!

marno21 · 12-09-2019 3:26pm

Funny that

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/0912/1075493-election/

I saw the news about an election earlier and wondered how long it would take Simon to start trying to clean up the numerous messes in relation to Cork projects over the last while

Didn’t take long at all

opus · 12-09-2019 3:50pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

.

This doesn't sound hugely positive.

Sounds like a done deal, always knew once an election was on the cards, things would start to happen.

Cork events centre latest: Taoiseach to make 'positive' announcement on long-awaited project

Maybe a second sod turning ceremony, Simon will be one of the few featuring in both :rolleyes:

hans aus dtschl · 12-09-2019 4:02pm

Oh Cork's getting a load of long-overdue infrastructure and capital projects again is it?
That's wonderful news.

Usual electioneering. Not sure if people will buy it this year though.

bingo9999 · 12-09-2019 4:17pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Oh Cork's getting a load of long-overdue infrastructure and capital projects again is it?
That's wonderful news.

Usual electioneering. Not sure if people will buy it this year though.

Getting a load of infrastructure and capital projects announcements. Not holding my breath until anything is delivered down here

snotboogie · 12-09-2019 4:31pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Oh Cork's getting a load of long-overdue infrastructure and capital projects again is it?
That's wonderful news.

Usual electioneering. Not sure if people will buy it this year though.

They're digging a hole if they are. May election and the Event Centre should be through planning in March.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 12-09-2019 5:33pm

Captainsatnav wrote: »

If one of the Healy-Rae's was Tánaiaste, do you think the cabinet would stand for their "people of south Kerry" parochial bullsh1t?

If they were Tánaiaste, they'd have an Events Center and North Ring road built.

marno21 · 12-09-2019 9:08pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

If they were Tánaiaste, they'd have an Events Center and North Ring road built.

We'd have a M22/M40/M71 interchange in Curraheen resembling this:

Roger Hassenforder · 12-09-2019 9:10pm

marno21 wrote: »

We'd have a M22/M40/M71 interchange in Curraheen resembling this:

Built by Haely Rae plant hire ltd.

Cork developments

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