Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

McCrack · 07-09-2019 06:00PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

OH FFS, we have been over this, in Ireland there is no advantage to pleading guilty. Its the law, I don't like it but that's the way it is.

No

In cases of adults yes because mandatory life applies regardless of plea

However involving children (under 18) being sentenced for murder the court has discretion and one consideration the court will give is whether the children pleaded guilty or not

In this case the murderers did not plead guilty so they will rightly not be entitled to credit by way of mitigation

Allinall · 07-09-2019 06:05PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

OH FFS, we have been over this, in Ireland there is no advantage to pleading guilty. Its the law, I don't like it but that's the way it is.

Wrong.

splinter65 · 07-09-2019 06:06PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

OH FFS, we have been over this, in Ireland there is no advantage to pleading guilty. Its the law, I don't like it but that's the way it is.

There is a very clear advantage to a murderer pleading guilty.
The advantage is to the family of the victim.
If you plead guilty then you won’t have put the family of the victim through even more agony and misery then you have already caused them, by forcing them to sit through week after week of evidence of how you brutally murdered their child, and tried to get away with it.
But the only victims you see here kidchameleon are the family of murderer b.
So that’s not clear to you.
It’s clear to any decent person with a moral compass. Just not you.

Hannibal_Smith · 07-09-2019 06:06PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

They are the only ones to blame for what they did.

THAT IS MY FREAKING POINT

I am including the father in that.

And no, that's not your point. Your sick point is that Patric should feel some sort of blame for his daughter being killed.

Don't forget, the boys haven't even told what happened. Nice parenting there

pinkyeye · 07-09-2019 08:05PM

I don't agree with everything Kidchameleon is saying but I do think that it's a bit hypocritical to blame one set of parents and not another.

It's no-ones fault except the two boys that carried out these murders. Full stop.

Spanish Eyes · 07-09-2019 08:22PM

The alleged murderers were THIRTEEN years of age.

Just file that away for future reference.

I just hope they get a sentence that allows their identities to be revealed once they are over 18.

splinter65 · 07-09-2019 08:24PM

pinkyeye wrote: »

I don't agree with everything Kidchameleon is saying but I do think that it's a bit hypocritical to blame one set of parents and not another.

It's no-ones fault except the two boys that carried out these murders. Full stop.

Murderer bs father made a diabolical scene in court when his son was found guilty. He shouted dogs abuse at the Gardai and the jurors who had worked so hard and done such a professional job. It was outrageous and must have been very alarming for the Kriegel family.
That’s why he’s getting singled out.
Murderer a family at least maintained a respectful silence.

splinter65 · 07-09-2019 08:25PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The alleged murderers were THIRTEEN years of age.

Just file that away for future reference.

I just hope they get a sentence that allows their identities to be revealed once they are over 18.

They’re not alleged. They’re proven murderers.

Road-Hog · 07-09-2019 08:31PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The alleged murderers were THIRTEEN years of age.

Just file that away for future reference.

I just hope they get a sentence that allows their identities to be revealed once they are over 18.

What do you mean by ‘allegded’...they have subsequently being found guilty so alleged can be dropped and something like ‘sadistic sexual deviant abominations of murderes’ might be a better way of referring to them......still don’t see much point in all this Phsyco-analysis of them......can the judge not just play it safe and to keep society safe and keep these ‘excuses of humans’ detained for as long as is legally possible.......can there really be a way of ‘reforming ‘ such deviants....? Why should society have to take the risk of what these two could end up doing When released in the future.....?

Spanish Eyes · 07-09-2019 08:40PM

OK, OK! Convicted Murderers so.

My point still stands. They were Thirteen years old. Honest to God what the actual F.

iamwhoiam · 07-09-2019 08:41PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The alleged murderers were THIRTEEN years of age.

Just file that away for future reference.

I just hope they get a sentence that allows their identities to be revealed once they are over 18.

Tried , convicted and found guilty by a jury . Both guilty of murder thus murderers

tuxy · 07-09-2019 08:45PM

Road-Hog wrote: »

can the judge not just play it safe and to keep society safe and keep these ‘excuses of humans’ detained for as long as is legally possible....

No, the Judge can give them a life sentence after that it will eventially be in the hands of the parole board.

volchitsa · 07-09-2019 08:47PM

pinkyeye wrote: »

I don't agree with everything Kidchameleon is saying but I do think that it's a bit hypocritical to blame one set of parents and not another.

It's no-ones fault except the two boys that carried out these murders. Full stop.

Kidchameleon is blaming one set of parents, or one father anyway, namely the murdered girl's father. He feels sorry for the parents of the murderers though.

Are you really saying that's a fair enough approach?

Hannibal_Smith · 07-09-2019 09:06PM

pinkyeye wrote: »

I don't agree with everything Kidchameleon is saying but I do think that it's a bit hypocritical to blame one set of parents and not another.

It's no-ones fault except the two boys that carried out these murders. Full stop.

One set of parents and not the other? Which sets of parents are you referring to.

Tokyo · 07-09-2019 09:07PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I'm certain he blames himself, I would if I were in his position.

Mod: Okay Kidchameleon, you've made it pretty blatantly clear that this is your opinion on the situation. The majority don't share the same opinion.

So, for the sake of our collective sanity, let's agree to disagree and move on from this point and onto the other aspects of the case. Otherwise, any further attempts to continue down this track of victim blaming, and I'll have no choice but to think you're deliberately winding up other posters, and you'll be banned from the thread at the very least. And no, this is not up for debate.

Faugheen · 07-09-2019 09:10PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The alleged murderers were THIRTEEN years of age.

Just file that away for future reference.

I just hope they get a sentence that allows their identities to be revealed once they are over 18.

There’s no ‘alleged’ about it.

They are guilty of murder. They are murderers.

Faugheen · 07-09-2019 09:12PM

mike_ie wrote: »

Mod: Okay Kidchameleon, you've made it pretty blatantly clear that this is your opinion on the situation. The majority don't share the same opinion.

So, for the sake of our collective sanity, let's agree to disagree and move on from this point and onto the other aspects of the case. Otherwise, any further attempts to continue down this track of victim blaming, and I'll have no choice but to think you're deliberately winding up other posters, and you'll be banned from the thread at the very least. And no, this is not up for debate.

Jesus Christ...

headnorth · 07-09-2019 09:59PM

Papers can't print anything that might identify boy a & b , radio & tv the same. And social media folk might get locked up too. Thank god for the courts own website.

Spanish Eyes · 07-09-2019 10:09PM

The Courts Website must be in cahoots with certain opticians.

It is ridiculously small print, tiny in fact. Anwyay. Just saying it is not the most professional or accessible websites IMO.

Road-Hog · 07-09-2019 10:55PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The Courts Website must be in cahoots with certain opticians.

It is ridiculously small print, tiny in fact. Anwyay. Just saying it is not the most professional or accessible websites IMO.

I’ve seen that extract from the courts web site previously. It only gives the initials of the ‘depraved sexual deviant perverted murderers’....there are simply thousands of not more people on these islands who would share the same initials so it’s not a whole lot of use in identifying the ‘fiends’....!!

Kidchameleon · 08-09-2019 06:25AM

splinter65 wrote: »

There is a very clear advantage to a murderer pleading guilty.
The advantage is to the family of the victim.
If you plead guilty then you won’t have put the family of the victim through even more agony and misery then you have already caused them, by forcing them to sit through week after week of evidence of how you brutally murdered their child, and tried to get away with it.
But the only victims you see here kidchameleon are the family of murderer b.
So that’s not clear to you.
It’s clear to any decent person with a moral compass. Just not you.

Thats some nice virtue signaling there, well done

Kidchameleon · 08-09-2019 06:32AM

volchitsa wrote: »

Kidchameleon is blaming one set of parents, or one father anyway, namely the murdered girl's father. He feels sorry for the parents of the murderers though.

Are you really saying that's a fair enough approach?

I think it is very unfair to blame the parents of the murderers. They are as innocent as the Kriegels. They have done nothing to cause Anas death. Some posters in here are having a field day blaming A & B's parent's yet throw there toys out of the pram when their hypocracy is pointed out.

Kidchameleon · 08-09-2019 06:34AM

mike_ie wrote: »

Mod: Okay Kidchameleon, you've made it pretty blatantly clear that this is your opinion on the situation. The majority don't share the same opinion.

So, for the sake of our collective sanity, let's agree to disagree and move on from this point and onto the other aspects of the case. Otherwise, any further attempts to continue down this track of victim blaming, and I'll have no choice but to think you're deliberately winding up other posters, and you'll be banned from the thread at the very least. And no, this is not up for debate.

Does this warning apply to people blaming the parents of the murderers or can I freely do that? Bear in mind they are innocent

pjohnson · 08-09-2019 07:28AM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Does this warning apply to people blaming the parents of the murderers or can I freely do that? Bear in mind they are innocent

They "raised" the murdering shìts. They arent innocent. I just hope they have no other children they can "raise".

You obviously think raising a murdering shìt is great but thankfully most dont.

And thats ignoring the scumbag antics of B's dad in court.

gozunda · 08-09-2019 08:18AM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The Courts Website must be in cahoots with certain opticians.

It is ridiculously small print, tiny in fact. Anwyay. Just saying it is not the most professional or accessible websites IMO.

Intersting article on the pending prosecutions for identifying the murderers

https://www.scottishlegal.com/article/ireland-nearly-a-dozen-people-referred-for-prosecution-in-relation-to-identification-of-ana-kriegel-killers

splinter65 · 08-09-2019 08:23AM

You have to teach kids the difference between right and wrong.
There seems to be some kind of notion that humans if left alone will naturally be caring selfless creatures.
They won’t. They naturally turn into an Everyman for himself type creature.
You have to teach them to be kind and think of others and tell them over and over that certain behaviors are not acceptable and that there will be consequences.
You have to demonstrate it too. Lead by example.
You will see signs and symptoms of your child’s deviancy from early on. That’s the time to get help.
There’s no way you’d have a child of the wickedness of those boys in the house with you, be giving them the attention boys of that age need, and not know that there was something wrong with them.

Road-Hog · 08-09-2019 08:33AM

splinter65 wrote: »

You have to teach kids the difference between right and wrong.
There seems to be some kind of notion that humans if left alone will naturally be caring selfless creatures.
They won’t. They naturally turn into an Everyman for himself type creature.
You have to teach them to be kind and think of others and tell them over and over that certain behaviors are not acceptable and that there will be consequences.
You have to demonstrate it too. Lead by example.
You will see signs and symptoms of your child’s deviancy from early on. That’s the time to get help.
There’s no way you’d have a child of the wickedness of those boys in the house with you, be giving them the attention boys of that age need, and not know that there was something wrong with them.

Would a certain amount of ‘decency’ not apply to the legal profession also? Obviously not given some of the tactics/avenues that they went down in their defence of animals A and B......?

Kidchameleon · 08-09-2019 08:59AM

Road-Hog wrote: »

Would a certain amount of ‘decency’ not apply to the legal profession also? Obviously not given some of the tactics/avenues that they went down in their defence of animals A and B......?

Technically, we are all animals, you, me, Ana and those boys. Everyone

Hannibal_Smith · 08-09-2019 09:05AM

Road-Hog wrote: »

Would a certain amount of ‘decency’ not apply to the legal profession also? Obviously not given some of the tactics/avenues that they went down in their defence of animals A and B......?

Everyone is entitled to a fair trial and a fair trial means a proper defence. They have a job to do and defending their client is that job.

I'm glad they got a proper defence and pulled out all the stops, they can't complain then that they didn't try everything to weasel out of their crime.

splinter65 · 08-09-2019 09:06AM

Road-Hog wrote: »

Would a certain amount of ‘decency’ not apply to the legal profession also? Obviously not given some of the tactics/avenues that they went down in their defence of animals A and B......?

In order for everyone of us to be sure that justice is done, and when the accused is maintaining their innocence, then every single avenue must be explored by the defense when trying to disprove the prosecution evidence.
If the consensual sex allegation hadn’t been brought up, presented as evidence at the trial, challenged and then discounted in the trial, then it would have been brought up at a later date, possibly in an Appeal or much later in maybe a newspaper interview with a family member of one of the murderers.
This way it’s been proven in court that there was no consensual sex and it can’t rear its ugly head again.
The Kriegels would have been warned that it was going to be alleged, and would have been ready.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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