Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

mrjoneill

tuxy wrote: »

How could they come forward without being in contempt of court for helping to identify the boys? I don't think anyone would care about some anonymous apology.

Not true, a solicitor could represent them without disclosing their client.
Boy B father doesn't believe he did anything wrong as for Boy A his parents & grandparents sought & got bail over the Christmas period pre-trial which shows a level of support for him.

mrjoneill

Limpy wrote: »

How come something like the dark Web can exist? And how can they stop it from existing.

Would it be possible if the parents of both murderers could apologise for the actions of these two. I mean if it was my kid and he did that I would disown him. But these people are side by side defending them, Offering support ect.

Dont give me the "it's maternal instinct" ect. They are adults who know what's right and wrong.

What I understand is the Dark Web is used by journalist and such sharing stories without fear of being traced.

Vicarious Function

Was someone arrested recently for attempting to import guns or other ammo sourced on the Dark Web?

tuxy

Vicarious Function wrote: »

Was someone arrested recently for attempting to import guns or other ammo sourced on the Dark Web?

There was a guy in England.
The NY times is also available on the darknet and many journalists use it to transmit info that could get them in legal trouble.
I don't see what it has to do with this case. Boy A did google dark web but as far as we know he never had any software installed to access it.

Ralph Ciffereto

One thing has mystified me about the drive to preserve the identities of the boys.

A short few years ago in Dublin there was an altercation in which a teenage boy (14 IIRC) stabbed another to death. From the outset the boy was described as a close associate of a well known criminal gang. A few weeks later it was reported he had fled the country for Holland with a named, shall we say, household name gangland figure.

Now, a 14 year old boy does not go abroad sharing hotel rooms with a man in his 30's unless they are very closely related.

In fact, during a committal hearing with the boy, the media talked to the named and on the day photographed gangland figure on unrelated matters, the article mentioned they ran into him at the childrens court, another article by the same media outlet mentioned the boy appearing that day at the same court.

All in all, the media all but told us who the boy on trial for the stabbing was without naming him. In fact he was named in previous articles about his older male gangland relative and his partner that pre dated the stabbing. The media have continued to report on this boy since he has turned 18 and moved to Mountjoy, albeit without naming him.

Why was such blatant clue feeding allowed for that case, but not for that of Ana's killers? Quite literally the only thing we can gauge from the court reports is the occupation field of the father of Boy B (and in news that will devastate various idiots on social media with an axe to grind against the establishment, he certainly isn't a Garda as they all seem to think he is)

Cupp3r

Ralph Ciffereto wrote: »

One thing has mystified me about the drive to preserve the identities of the boys.

A short few years ago in Dublin there was an altercation in which a teenage boy (14 IIRC) stabbed another to death. From the outset the boy was described as a close associate of a well known criminal gang. A few weeks later it was reported he had fled the country for Holland with a named, shall we say, household name gangland figure.

Now, a 14 year old boy does not go abroad sharing hotel rooms with a man in his 30's unless they are very closely related.

In fact, during a committal hearing with the boy, the media talked to the named and on the day photographed gangland figure on unrelated matters, the article mentioned they ran into him at the childrens court, another article by the same media outlet mentioned the boy appearing that day at the same court.

All in all, the media all but told us who the boy on trial for the stabbing was without naming him. In fact he was named in previous articles about his older male gangland relative and his partner that pre dated the stabbing. The media have continued to report on this boy since he has turned 18, albeit without naming him.

Why was such blatant clue feeding allowed for that case, but not for that of Ana's killers? Quite literally the only thing we can gauge from the court reports is the occupation field of the father of Boy B (and in news that will devastate various idiots on social media with an axe to grind against the establishment, he certainly isn't a Garda as they all seem to think he is)

For a start the boy who stabbed the other boy- Family was easily to identify by google. Maybe the Kriegel killers families are clean so cannot bring anything up so easily with clues.

Gadgetman496

Sentencing of killers of Ana Kriegel adjourned to October, do we know what date in October?

Cupp3r

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Sentencing of killers of Ana Kriegel adjourned to October, do we know what date in October?

When the Psychiatrist reports are due recording to reports. Id imagine the day wont be made public untill the evening before.

Ralph Ciffereto

Cupp3r wrote: »

For a start the boy who stabbed the other boy- Family was easily to identify by google. Maybe the Kriegel killers families are clean so cannot bring anything up so easily with clues.

Yes, but look at it like this. In the weeks between the initial arrest and charge the media never dared to state along the lines of "the family of one of those arrested is well known and highly respected in the Leixlip area, with a long established presence in the local restaurant* industry"

*: I'm in no way suggesting they are involved in local eateries and have seen no claim that they are, just using this as a hypothetical example.

As opposed to the boy in Dublin being tagged as linked to a dominant local named crime gang. It made it pretty easy.

Cupp3r

Ralph Ciffereto wrote: »

Yes, but look at it like this. In the weeks between the initial arrest and charge the media never dared to state along the lines of "the family of one of those arrested is well known and highly respected in the Leixlip area, with a long established presence in the local restaurant* industry"

*: I'm in no way suggesting they are involved in local eateries and have seen no claim that they are, just using this as a hypothetical example.

As opposed to the boy in Dublin being tagged as linked to a dominant local named crime gang. It made it pretty easy.

So youd rather an innocent family is ruined like a well known convicted gangster cause their relation committed an appalling act?

Ralph Ciffereto

Cupp3r wrote: »

So youd rather an innocent family is ruined like a well known convicted gangster cause their relation committed an appalling act?

Certainly not, although from what I gather the secrecy around this means that the wrong people have been identified in some instances.

For all the hype I doubt 99 percent of the population know the names/ photos of these boys. I have it screenshotted on my phone (if it even is them) but the authorities have been pretty successful in wiping ones ability to find active info on it via Google. I've only ever seen a single mention of Boy A's name, Boy B seemed to be far more widely circulated for some reason.

The hope of some idiots on social media that he was a guard's son (he almost certainly isn't from what I can see) shows the pathetic me against the world mindset of some of the welfare reprobates in this country.

Cupp3r

Ralph Ciffereto wrote: »

Certainly not, although from what I gather the secrecy around this means that the wrong people have been identified in some instances.

For all the hype I doubt 99 percent of the population know the names/ photos of these boys. I have it screenshotted on my phone (if it even is them) but the authorities have been pretty successful in wiping ones ability to find active info on it via Google. I've only ever seen a single mention of Boy A's name, Boy B seemed to be far more widely circulated for some reason.

The hope of some idiots on social media that he was a guard's son (he almost certainly isn't from what I can see) shows the pathetic me against the world mindset of some of the welfare reprobates in this country.

But you have his details screenshot on your phone Why?

Ralph Ciffereto

Cupp3r wrote: »

But you have his details screenshot on your phone Why?

Because I'd like to have a google of their names in 15 years and see if they ever come to attention again (although they may have adopted new names after release). Why wouldn't I? It's well in the public interest and in our neighbours the UK teen offenders are routinely named post trial.

Even in this country there are articles actively available online naming a then 9 year old boy who stabbed an acquaintance to death in an altercation around 20 years ago. This rush to hide the identity seems to be for this case solely, predicated on the risk of violence from an angry public. There's plenty of teen killers from past years who were fully identified post trial, legally.

I've no intention of disseminating said image and name to anyone, but I see no harm in my having accessed it. To my knowledge it isn't illegal to possess this info, just to communicate it.

Cupp3r

Ralph Ciffereto wrote: »

Because I'd like to have a google of their names in 15 years and see if they ever come to attention again (although they may have adopted new names after release). Why wouldn't I? It's well in the public interest and in our neighbours the UK teen offenders are routinely named post trial.

Even in this country there are articles actively available online naming a then 9 year old boy who stabbed an acquaintance to death in an altercation. This rush to hide the identity seems to be for this case solely, predicated on the risk of violence from an angry public. There's plenty of teen killers from past years who were fully identified post trial, legally.

I've no intention of disseminating said image and name to anyone, but I see no harm in my having accessed it.

I have no interest in knowing their names personally. It's your right I suppose if that interests you. But more so for the Kriegel family I'd rather they faded into obscurity and names never mentioned again. The very mention of the name who have murdered their beautiful daughter will bring it all back up.

splinter65

Cupp3r wrote: »

When the Psychiatrist reports are due recording to reports. Id imagine the day wont be made public untill the evening before.

The judge probably has the psych reports now and is studying them and reflecting on them and getting further advise pre sentencing. He’ll have to spend some time then coming to a decision about an appropriate sentence.

Ralph Ciffereto

Cupp3r wrote: »

I have no interest in knowing their names personally. It's your right I suppose if that interests you. But more so for the Kriegel family I'd rather they faded into obscurity and names never mentioned again. The very mention of the name who have murdered their beautiful daughter will bring it all back up.

I can't speak for them. Maybe they do want them forgotten about. I'd wager most people in that position would want them exposed. They'd want the case to follow them forever, impacting their ability to get a job, or to acquire a relationship with anyone other than types like that Russian lunatic who was writing to Graham Dwyer.

abff

I think most people would prefer that anyone capable of doing what they did could not possible exist in the first case.

iamwhoiam

abff wrote: »

I think most people would prefer that anyone capable of doing what they did could not possible exist in the first case.

Most ? Everyone I would presume .
Personally I would like to know who they so my granddaughters will never encounter them in the future

Vicarious Function

Ralph Ciffereto wrote: »

I can't speak for them. Maybe they do want them forgotten about. I'd wager most people in that position would want them exposed. They'd want the case to follow them forever, impacting their ability to get a job, or to acquire a relationship with anyone other than types like that Russian lunatic who was writing to Graham Dwyer.

I just saw an update on the Menendez brothers who murdered their parents out of selfishness and are in prison for life without parole - they are both married now!!!! :eek: :eek:

hatrickpatrick

The reason Boy B was more widely named and people were more interested in his identity is most likely because his father outed himself as a complete and utter scumbag in court, and I think most people are now making the fair assumption that there’s a real possibility of his savagery being directly related to being brought up by said complete and utter scumbag. Apples and trees, etc. His father sounds like the kind of person who should be totally ostracized from society and I suspect that this is why more people are interested in knowing who he is vs Boy A.

tuxy

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The reason Boy B was more widely named and people were more interested in his identity is most likely because his father outed himself as a complete and utter scumbag in court, and I think most people are now making the fair assumption that there’s a real possibility of his savagery being directly related to being brought up by said complete and utter scumbag. Apples and trees, etc. His father sounds like the kind of person who should be totally ostracized from society and I suspect that this is why more people are interested in knowing who he is vs Boy A.

But a relative of Boy B was attacked when the trial was ongoing and before that incident you talk about.
People what the names as it helps play out their revenge fantasies and a small number of those people may actully carry it out.

McCrack

murderer A and murderer B is more suitable description

monty_python

McCrack wrote: »

murderer A and murderer B is more suitable description

Has the sentencing happened yet ?

headnorth

monty_python wrote:

Has the sentencing happened yet ?

No. Full details will be up on the courts.ie website, under legal diary, the day before they are sentenced. Court room number, time, judge etc will all be up there.

splinter65

monty_python wrote: »

Has the sentencing happened yet ?

No it’ll be some time in October.

GT_TDI_150

McCrack wrote: »

murderer A and murderer B is more suitable description

As long as they introduce themself to you by those names when they move in next door after theiy are released, but id bet their identities may be changed come release time, robeet thompson and jon venables style.

Road-Hog

McCrack wrote: »

murderer A and murderer B is more suitable description

They are more than just murderers....’sadistic sexual deviant abominations’.........

Why does the judge have to so ‘thorough’ before sentencing is it to ensure that grounds for appeal are reduced? These ‘freaks of nature’ deserve the absolute maximum period of time ‘locked up’.....most likely he will not impose the max......seeking psychological reports from experts etc can only mean one outcome ie thay he will take into account their ‘genetic disorder/flaws’ /poor parenting etc and reduce the duration of their time in ‘detention’.......I’m going to guess they serve ten years max.......

Also find it still very disturbing when you read about the suggestion by the defense for A/B that the sexual part of the attack could have been ‘consensual’.,,,just imagine how upsetting and insensitive it was for anas parents to have to sit and listen to this plus also her mother was asked to confirm that Ana had condoms under her pillow/somewhere in her bedroom....but of course they the defense are only doing job we are told, it’s their constitutional right to have a defense and up to the state to convince the jury of their guilt......how anyone could remotely suggest that the whole thing was a ‘sexual encounter’ that got out of hand given the evidence to the contrary is just astounding.....50 plus barbaric wounds inflicted on the poor girl then dragged around a room and left semi if not totally naked....

splinter65

If you don’t get the basics of our justice system ( which is the only justice system in this world that works) then you just don’t get it.
In order to make sure that Ana Kriegel got justice the trial had to give the defenders of the murderers every opportunity to prove that they weren’t guilty.
They put forward all their evidence. The jury didn’t believe them. They were found guilty. That’s justice.
We can’t sentence guilty people based on our emotional reaction to the crimes.
If we did that then there would be no need for judges to decide the sentence.
A mob would decide the sentence.
That’s what happens in some very miserable places and it doesn’t work.
The murderers weren’t born evil.
They became evil.
What made them evil?
Their parents went wrong somewhere either by deliberately teaching them that they could do whatever they liked with no consequences (unlikely) or just not spending enough time making sure that they knew the difference between right and wrong (more likely).
For that, the murderers are not responsible. The psychological report will reveal the level to which the murderers will need treatment in order to try and correct the damage that’s been done by parental neglect.
The judge has to balance this against punishing them for deliberately putting a beautiful girl to a horrific execution and her being in her grave.
The judge also needs to protect us from them.
The judge also needs to send a message to other potential murderers that their lives will be more or less over if they attempt this.
So, it’s all quite complicated and I’m glad I’m not the judge.

Kidchameleon

splinter65 wrote: »

Their parents went wrong somewhere either by deliberately teaching them that they could do whatever they liked with no consequences (unlikely) or just not spending enough time making sure that they knew the difference between right and wrong (more likely).

As has been discussed many, MANY times on this very thread, plenty of evil people were brought up in good homes. How do you explain A's and B's siblings leading very healthy, normal lives?

splinter65 wrote: »

for deliberately putting a beautiful girl to a horrific execution

What have her looks got to do with it. Again, that is a creepy as f**k thing to say

splinter65 wrote: »

So, it’s all quite complicated and I’m glad I’m not the judge.

I'm really glad your not the judge too :eek:

splinter65

Kidchameleon wrote: »

As has been discussed many, MANY times on this very thread, plenty of evil people were brought up in good homes. How do you explain A's and B's siblings leading very healthy, normal lives?




What have her looks got to do with it. Again, that is a creepy as f**k thing to say



I'm really glad your not the judge too :eek:

How do you know that the siblings live healthy normal lives? You just don’t know is the answer.
As discussed here before on this thread you are the only person posting here who thinks this is creepy. The fact that you clearly attribute sexual connotations to describing a child as beautiful says it all about how your mind works, tbh. So cop yourself on.