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Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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    #5402
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    He did nothing to blame himself for.


    Other than the outburst in the courtroom, do you think the parents of A and B did anything they should be blaming themselves for?


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    #5403
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Allowing their children to plead not guilty and dragging Ana's parents through courts would be something they should be looking at.
    No matter how much they wanted to believe their children were innocent, it was obvious that neither were from very early on.


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    #5404
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    He did nothing to blame himself for.


    Other than the outburst in the courtroom, do you think the parents of A and B did anything they should be blaming themselves for?

    Patric Kreigel did NOTHING to blame himself for in relation to his daughter's murder. Without qualification or what ifs.

    If I was the parent of a scumbag murderer I would ask myself a few questions alright. I certainly wouldnt act the way that Father did and show my total lack of class and composure like he did.


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    #5405
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    If I was the parent of a scumbag murderer I would ask myself a few questions alright..


    Do you think Patric ever regretted letting Ana go with that boy? Geraldine knew immediately that Ana was in trouble when she found out she went off with the boy, why didnt Patrick know Ana was in danger? Geraldine stated that she would not have let Ana go off with him yet Patric had no problem with it.


    If someone tells me that the parents of A and B "should have known" what they were up to then I think it is fair to say that Patric should have been aware also.


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    #5406
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Why would anyone ever suspect that letting their daughter go out for a few minutes with a boy of the same age, think it would lead to that?
    You are patheticly spinning the same line to get a reaction for almost 5 months now. Not sure why anyone (including myself) responds to these posts that are obviously written to provoke.


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    #5407
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Suckit wrote: »
    Why would anyone ever suspect that letting their daughter go out for a few minutes with a boy of the same age, think it would lead to that?
    You are patheticly spinning the same line to get a reaction for almost 5 months now. Not sure why anyone (including myself) responds to these posts that are obviously written to provoke.


    Why dont you ask Geraldine Kriegel...


    "Geraldine Kriegel tells court she was 'immediately concerned' when Ana left home with one of accused"


    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/geraldine-kriegel-tells-court-immediately-14981649


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    #5408
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    You have no idea why Geraldine Kriegel was concerned, there could have been a thousand reasons. I doubt she ever thought that murder was going to be one of them. I'm also fairly certain that she or anyone in a similar position wouldn't want you, me or anyone posting on her behalf to make some nonsense point.


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    #5409
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    If I was the parent of a scumbag murderer I would ask myself a few questions alright..


    Do you think Patric ever regretted letting Ana go with that boy? Geraldine knew immediately that Ana was in trouble when she found out she went off with the boy, why didnt Patrick know Ana was in danger? Geraldine stated that she would not have let Ana go off with him yet Patric had no problem with it.


    If someone tells me that the parents of A and B "should have known" what they were up to then I think it is fair to say that Patric should have been aware also.

    Patric did nothing wrong. He is in no way to blame what happened to his daughter.

    You're shooting yourself in the foot there. If The boys' parents couldn't have known that their sons were murderers, then how the hell could Patric have known.

    It is the lowest form of reason to think that any finger should be pointed at the father of a girl who was murdered. Its just a ridiculous attempt to deflect attention from the murderers and the atrocious way that father acted in court. They are the only ones to blame for what they did.


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    #5410
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    They are the only ones to blame for what they did.


    THAT IS MY FREAKING POINT


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    #5411
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Suckit wrote: »
    You have no idea why Geraldine Kriegel was concerned, there could have been a thousand reasons. I doubt she ever thought that murder was going to be one of them. I'm also fairly certain that she or anyone in a similar position wouldn't want you, me or anyone posting on her behalf to make some nonsense point.


    And yet there are posters in here who think the parents of A and B should have known that they were murderers.


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    #5412
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    The parents of these murderers do need to take a long look at themselves particularly with the overwhelming forensic evidence which would have been disclosed in the Book of Evidence prior to the trial and allowed their disgusting teenage killers to plead not guilty


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    #5413
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    He has been saying the same line, with the same rhetoric since he started posting. Mainly so he can try and corner other posters and reply with the same line he's been replying with.

    Not worth reading or replying to, to be honest.


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    #5414
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    McCrack wrote: »
    The parents of these murderers do need to take a long look at themselves particularly with the overwhelming forensic evidence which would have been disclosed in the Book of Evidence prior to the trial and allowed their disgusting teenage killers to plead not guilty

    There was no forensic evidence against Boy B, the main evidence was his interviews in the Garda station.


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    #5415
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    tuxy wrote: »
    There was no forensic evidence against Boy B, the main evidence was his interviews in the Garda station.

    Yes and all contained in the Book of Evidence

    Presumably one of his parents sat in on the interviews too


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    #5416
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    McCrack wrote: »
    The parents of these murderers do need to take a long look at themselves particularly with the overwhelming forensic evidence which would have been disclosed in the Book of Evidence prior to the trial and allowed their disgusting teenage killers to plead not guilty


    OH FFS, we have been over this, in Ireland there is no advantage to pleading guilty. Its the law, I don't like it but that's the way it is.


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    #5417
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    OH FFS, we have been over this, in Ireland there is no advantage to pleading guilty. Its the law, I don't like it but that's the way it is.

    No

    In cases of adults yes because mandatory life applies regardless of plea

    However involving children (under 18) being sentenced for murder the court has discretion and one consideration the court will give is whether the children pleaded guilty or not

    In this case the murderers did not plead guilty so they will rightly not be entitled to credit by way of mitigation


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    #5418
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    OH FFS, we have been over this, in Ireland there is no advantage to pleading guilty. Its the law, I don't like it but that's the way it is.

    Wrong.


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    #5419
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    OH FFS, we have been over this, in Ireland there is no advantage to pleading guilty. Its the law, I don't like it but that's the way it is.

    There is a very clear advantage to a murderer pleading guilty.
    The advantage is to the family of the victim.
    If you plead guilty then you won’t have put the family of the victim through even more agony and misery then you have already caused them, by forcing them to sit through week after week of evidence of how you brutally murdered their child, and tried to get away with it.
    But the only victims you see here kidchameleon are the family of murderer b.
    So that’s not clear to you.
    It’s clear to any decent person with a moral compass. Just not you.


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    #5420
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    They are the only ones to blame for what they did.


    THAT IS MY FREAKING POINT

    I am including the father in that.

    And no, that's not your point. Your sick point is that Patric should feel some sort of blame for his daughter being killed.

    Don't forget, the boys haven't even told what happened. Nice parenting there


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    #5421
    pinkyeye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pinkyeye


    I don't agree with everything Kidchameleon is saying but I do think that it's a bit hypocritical to blame one set of parents and not another.

    It's no-ones fault except the two boys that carried out these murders. Full stop.


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    #5422
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,912 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    The alleged murderers were THIRTEEN years of age.

    Just file that away for future reference.

    I just hope they get a sentence that allows their identities to be revealed once they are over 18.


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    #5423
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    I don't agree with everything Kidchameleon is saying but I do think that it's a bit hypocritical to blame one set of parents and not another.

    It's no-ones fault except the two boys that carried out these murders. Full stop.

    Murderer bs father made a diabolical scene in court when his son was found guilty. He shouted dogs abuse at the Gardai and the jurors who had worked so hard and done such a professional job. It was outrageous and must have been very alarming for the Kriegel family.
    That’s why he’s getting singled out.
    Murderer a family at least maintained a respectful silence.


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    #5424
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    The alleged murderers were THIRTEEN years of age.

    Just file that away for future reference.

    I just hope they get a sentence that allows their identities to be revealed once they are over 18.

    They’re not alleged. They’re proven murderers.


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    #5425
    Road-Hog
    Registered Users Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭Road-Hog


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    The alleged murderers were THIRTEEN years of age.

    Just file that away for future reference.

    I just hope they get a sentence that allows their identities to be revealed once they are over 18.

    What do you mean by ‘allegded’...they have subsequently being found guilty so alleged can be dropped and something like ‘sadistic sexual deviant abominations of murderes’ might be a better way of referring to them......still don’t see much point in all this Phsyco-analysis of them......can the judge not just play it safe and to keep society safe and keep these ‘excuses of humans’ detained for as long as is legally possible.......can there really be a way of ‘reforming ‘ such deviants....? Why should society have to take the risk of what these two could end up doing When released in the future.....?


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    #5426
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,912 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    OK, OK! Convicted Murderers so.

    My point still stands. They were Thirteen years old. Honest to God what the actual F.


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    #5427
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,105 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    The alleged murderers were THIRTEEN years of age.

    Just file that away for future reference.

    I just hope they get a sentence that allows their identities to be revealed once they are over 18.

    Tried , convicted and found guilty by a jury . Both guilty of murder thus murderers


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    #5428
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Road-Hog wrote: »
    can the judge not just play it safe and to keep society safe and keep these ‘excuses of humans’ detained for as long as is legally possible....

    No, the Judge can give them a life sentence after that it will eventially be in the hands of the parole board.


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    #5429
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,034 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    I don't agree with everything Kidchameleon is saying but I do think that it's a bit hypocritical to blame one set of parents and not another.

    It's no-ones fault except the two boys that carried out these murders. Full stop.

    Kidchameleon is blaming one set of parents, or one father anyway, namely the murdered girl's father. He feels sorry for the parents of the murderers though.

    Are you really saying that's a fair enough approach?


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    #5430
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    I don't agree with everything Kidchameleon is saying but I do think that it's a bit hypocritical to blame one set of parents and not another.

    It's no-ones fault except the two boys that carried out these murders. Full stop.

    One set of parents and not the other? Which sets of parents are you referring to.


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    #5431
    Tokyo
    Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    I'm certain he blames himself, I would if I were in his position.


    Mod: Okay Kidchameleon, you've made it pretty blatantly clear that this is your opinion on the situation. The majority don't share the same opinion.

    So, for the sake of our collective sanity, let's agree to disagree and move on from this point and onto the other aspects of the case. Otherwise, any further attempts to continue down this track of victim blaming, and I'll have no choice but to think you're deliberately winding up other posters, and you'll be banned from the thread at the very least. And no, this is not up for debate.


This discussion has been closed.
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