Why has craft beer and cask Ale not taken off in Irish pubs?

lufties · 30-08-2019 6:43pm #1

Hi, just an observation. Ireland has some fantastic micro brewers, solas being my favourite currently. However, I never see them in Irish pubs outside Dublin. I've visited a few pubs recently in Tipp and Clare, they all serve the same mass produced rubbish.
I live in Yorkshire, and every pub serves different ales ranging from 3.5% upwards. It's a shame it doesn't take off in Ireland as I'm sick of returning home to the same old Guinness, Heineken etc.

stimpson · 30-08-2019 6:49pm

lufties wrote: »

Hi, just an observation. Ireland has some fantastic micro brewers, solas being my favourite currently. However, I never see them in Irish pubs outside Dublin. I've visited a few pubs recently in Tipp and Clare, they all serve the same mass produced rubbish.
I live in Yorkshire, and every pub serves different ales ranging from 3.5% upwards. It's a shame it doesn't take off in Ireland as I'm sick of returning home to the same old Guinness, Heineken etc.

There may be less of a demand in rural pubs. In Dublin it’s rare to find a pub that does not have a couple of craft taps. It’s the same for any of the larger urban areas.

Cask would be more traditional in the UK so you’ll see a lot of craft in cask. I was at a beer festival last year in Derbyshire and there were 60 cask ales on offer. Took me 3 days to get through them all.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 30-08-2019 6:53pm

lufties wrote: »

Hi, just an observation. Ireland has some fantastic micro brewers, solas being my favourite currently. However, I never see them in Irish pubs outside Dublin. I've visited a few pubs recently in Tipp and Clare, they all serve the same mass produced rubbish.
I live in Yorkshire, and every pub serves different ales ranging from 3.5% upwards. It's a shame it doesn't take off in Ireland as I'm sick of returning home to the same old Guinness, Heineken etc.

Honestly? Advertising.

Every pub in the country sells Budweiser and Heineken. They're not fit for human consumption yet they're the go to "beers" for a good chunk of the population.

My local got in a range of the McGargles stuff a few years ago, it's a lot better than the commercial mass produced stuff, it was being handed out for FREE for anyone who wanted to try it at the start yet everyone still went back to the drain cleaner Budweiser and Mcgargles died a death. People are used to this muck and they're not willing to change.

lufties · 30-08-2019 7:01pm

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Honestly? Advertising.

Every pub in the country sells Budweiser and Heineken. They're not fit for human consumption yet they're the go to "beers" for a good chunk of the population.

My local got in a range of the McGargles stuff a few years ago, it's a lot better than the commercial mass produced stuff, it was being handed out for FREE for anyone who wanted to try it at the start yet everyone still went back to the drain cleaner Budweiser and Mcgargles died a death. People are used to this muck and they're not willing to change.

Gosh, that's unbelievable. I was in kilkee recently and the standard ****e was on tap everywhere. The edgiest drink I could get was beamish lol.

lufties · 30-08-2019 7:03pm

stimpson wrote: »

There may be less of a demand in rural pubs. In Dublin it’s rare to find a pub that does not have a couple of craft taps. It’s the same for any of the larger urban areas.

Cask would be more traditional in the UK so you’ll see a lot of craft in cask. I was at a beer festival last year in Derbyshire and there were 60 cask ales on offer. Took me 3 days to get through them all.

Cask is a british thing for sure, but I love foung into a pub and having a range of 5 ales I've never heard of before. I especially like blondes at 4%, light and refreshing.

Paddy is loyal to his drain cleaner.

ted1 · 30-08-2019 7:07pm

It’s the squeeze Diageo/guiness have on pubs.

lufties · 30-08-2019 7:08pm

ted1 wrote: »

It’s the squeeze Diageo/guiness have on pubs.

Thought as much.

salmocab · 30-08-2019 7:09pm

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Honestly? Advertising.

Every pub in the country sells Budweiser and Heineken. They're not fit for human consumption yet they're the go to "beers" for a good chunk of the population.

My local got in a range of the McGargles stuff a few years ago, it's a lot better than the commercial mass produced stuff, it was being handed out for FREE for anyone who wanted to try it at the start yet everyone still went back to the drain cleaner Budweiser and Mcgargles died a death. People are used to this muck and they're not willing to change.

Was that MC gargles not made by one of the the big breweries?

odyssey06 · 30-08-2019 7:13pm

Wasn't there a big campaign in England in 1970s for save real ale? CAMRA and all that?
There was no Irish equivalent. And in a small Irish market Guinness had put most competitors out of action 100 years ago.
In England you had breweries competing through tied pubs.
Very different markets.

lufties · 30-08-2019 7:18pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Wasn't there a big campaign in England in 1970s for save real ale? CAMRA and all that?
There was no Irish equivalent. And in a small Irish market Guinness had put most competitors out of action 100 years ago.
In England you had breweries competing through tied pubs.
Very different markets.

When I lived in Ireland 10 years ago I was a Guinness sheep too, probably through social engineering and advertising

Personally I prefer the quality of micro brewers, also I prefer to give my hard earned money to the little fella.

If everyone thought like me, Diageo would be out of business.

ShamNNspace · 30-08-2019 7:19pm

Tis a pity. I normally go out once a week on a weekday in a county town. I like to visit maybe 4 pubs in town of a night so I mostly stick to what's available in all four ie carlsberg or H. I think from what I heard diagio have too much of a hold on the pubs and can influence what they stock

thegills · 30-08-2019 7:23pm

I asked my local in Killaloe if they had any craft beer and they pointed to a can of Carslberg.

lufties · 30-08-2019 7:24pm

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Tis a pity. I normally go out once a week on a weekday in a county town. I like to visit maybe 4 pubs in town of a night so I mostly stick to what's available in all four ie carlsberg or H. I think from what I heard diagio have too much of a hold on the pubs and can influence what they stock

What do you mean by 'have too much of a hold'?

Bassfish · 30-08-2019 7:25pm

All of the reasons above there's little tradition of cask ales here in living memory. The room temperature flat ales are a hard sell in Ireland. We're too used to the cold keg room temperature.

30-08-2019 7:27pm

We have a legion of craft beers in Ireland - visit your local off licence and you'll likely find dozens. Multitude of craft breweries sprung up after 2010, so you're not exactly wanting for choice. As for cask ales - they are largely a British custom, unlikely draught served at more than 10°C will become an overnight sensation here.

I live down the road from Ennis, McHugh's pub has nine varieties of Western Herd (a local craft brewary in Kilmaley) on tap. The Diageo/Heineken stranglehold is far from absolute. From my perspective, things have opened up in the last decade.

Insect Overlord · 30-08-2019 7:27pm

A younger me and my brother were chatting with one of our uncles, many years ago now, and the uncle let us in on a secret.

A lot of grownups don't really enjoy drinking all that much. More specifically, they don't really enjoy what they drink. They love the session, and they drink whatever offends them the least while they get drunk. Many drinkers go for quantity over quality and then brag about how many pints and shots they had afterwards. Booze is just the means to an end.

If you're not taking the time to enjoy the flavour of a beer, you're not going to experiment with new options and pay a little bit extra for the pleasure.

Beechwoodspark · 30-08-2019 7:28pm

Don’t forget as well

UK has approx 10 times the population of Ireland

So for every 1 real ale enthusiast they have 10.

d8491prj5boyvg · 30-08-2019 7:28pm

ted1 wrote: »

It’s the squeeze Diageo/guiness have on pubs.

Very true. Also, Irish people are creatures of habit so stick to what they know. "Guinness is my drink". "I'm a Smithwicks drinker". And so on.

We also drink to excess. 10 pints in one sitting. Budweiser will do nicely for that. 10 pints of McGargles is a more difficult ask for your average punter. Guinness is very bland compared to a normal stout to aid the binge drinking.

lufties · 30-08-2019 7:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

We have a legion of craft beers in Ireland - visit your local off licence and you'll likely find dozens. Multitude of craft breweries sprung up after 2010, so you're not exactly wanting for choice. As for cask ales - they are largely a British custom, unlikely draught served at more than 10°C will become an overnight sensation here.

Have a read of my original post

L1011 · 30-08-2019 7:29pm

salmocab wrote: »

Was that MC gargles not made by one of the the big breweries?

Its an Irish craft product. It was initially made in the UK for a few months many many* years ago.

Its made in Celbridge by Rye River, one of the bigger Irish craft breweries.

Diageo, Heineken, C&C and to a lesser extent MolsonCoors have the clout to offer incentives to pubs to get tap space. The small brewers don't.

The cider wars between then currently are eating up tap spaces like crazy - can have somewhere with FIVE taps of macro ciders (Diageo Rockshore, Heineken Applemans and Orchard Theives, C&C Bulmers and Outcider). Free kegs, free fitout as 'marketing material' and so on. My local has a motorised roof for the smoking area provided by Molson for instance.

Those small English pubs selling ales are probably owned by the brewery that makes it or their spun off pubco also.

Near Dublin it's now very common for a pub to have either a Rye River or an O'Haras tap; also the drinkable but MolsonCoors Franciscan Well products are common too.

*for an Irish craft beer lifespan of "many many", that is.

lufties · 30-08-2019 7:36pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Don’t forget as well

UK has approx 10 times the population of Ireland

So for every 1 real ale enthusiast they have 10.

The english drink ale, and rarely I'd see Heineken or any other ****e on tap wetherspoons even has saltaire blonde.

I think its probably that people like to define themselves by what they drink . I used to drink with a cork man in hong kong and all he would drink is bottles of Heineken. Very odd and stupid. Perhaps he was being loyal as Heineken employs people in cork? I really dont know.
Standards could really do with improving. I love a few decent IPAs or even craft stout. It's just so refreshing compared to the usual boring ****e.

lufties · 30-08-2019 7:38pm

L1011 wrote: »

Its an Irish craft product. It was initially made in the UK for a few months many many years ago.

Its made in Celbridge by Rye River, one of the bigger Irish craft breweries.

Diageo, Heineken, C&C and to a lesser extent MolsonCoors have the clout to offer incentives to pubs to get tap space. The small brewers don't.

The cider wars between then currently are eating up tap spaces like crazy - can have somewhere with FIVE taps of macro ciders (Diageo Rockshore, Heineken Applemans and Orchard Theives, C&C Bulmers and Outcider). Free kegs, free fitout as 'marketing material' and so on. My local has a motorised roof for the smoking area provided by Molson for instance.

Those small English pubs selling ales are probably owned by the brewery that makes it or their spun off pubco also.

Near Dublin it's now very common for a pub to have either a Rye River or an O'Haras tap; also the drinkable but MolsonCoors Franciscan Well products are common too.

I even had a pint of Franciscan well in London lol, although it was a bit strong for me.

What Im getting at is we could do so much better, with a variety of session IPAs and lower strength lager.

30-08-2019 7:38pm

lufties wrote: »

Have a read of my original post

Reside in Clare, and debunked your lament about lack of micro-breweries outside Dublin. Another popular spot here is the Roadside Tavern in Lisdoonvarna, which has a trio of their own craft selection called 'Celtic' on tap. Including a bitter stout, if one is that way inclined. Brewed in-house.

Insect Overlord · 30-08-2019 7:39pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I live in Clare, and debunked your lament about the micro-brewaries outside Dublin. Another popular spot here is the Roadside Tavern in Lisdoonvarna, which has a trio of their own craft selection called 'Celtic' on tap. Including a bitter stout, if one is that way inclined. Brewed in-house.

Good spot, that. They also do a fantastic BLT with chips!

lufties · 30-08-2019 7:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Reside in Clare, and debunked your lament about lack of micro-breweries outside Dublin. Another popular spot here is the Roadside Tavern in Lisdoonvarna, which has a trio of their own craft selection called 'Celtic' on tap. Including a bitter stout, if one is that way inclined. Brewed in-house.

Definitely an exception, not one micro brewer in the popular holiday town of Kilkee.

L1011 · 30-08-2019 7:49pm

lufties wrote: »

I even had a pint of Franciscan well in London lol, although it was a bit strong for me.

What Im getting at is we could do so much better, with a variety of session IPAs and lower strength lager.

All of those are made by Irish breweries; the problem is pubs are wary of them and incentivised not to sell them.

30-08-2019 7:51pm

lufties wrote: »

Definitely an exception, not one micro brewer in the popular holiday town of Kilkee.

Another example is Loudon's in Feakle, took off a few years ago. I've now given you three examples, which isn't bad for a small county. Some people are never satisfied. The micro-brewery won't travel to your doorstop, do the cursory research and try to incorporate these places on your travel itinerary.

lufties · 30-08-2019 7:53pm

L1011 wrote: »

All of those are made by Irish breweries; the problem is pubs are wary of them and incentivised not to sell them.

Wary why? You'd think we'd consider own instead of foreign conglomerates. Especially when clearly the quality is better.

I guess most Irish people are happy with the muck they drink in pubs, otherwise things would change.

Having lived in Germany the choice was great too, going back to Irish pubs seems archaic in some ways considering how we pride ourselves on booze culture.

hesker · 30-08-2019 7:54pm

The Rising Sons Brewery from Cork is doing well I believe.

I like a pint of stout now and again but got completely fed up with the variability of a certain brand.

Then someone put me on to Mi Daza and I can enjoy my pint again. It's now selling in Dublin too I believe.

lufties · 30-08-2019 7:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Another example is Loudon's in Feakle, took off a few years ago. I've now given you three examples, which isn't bad for a small county. Some people are never satisfied. The micro-brewery won't travel to your doorstop, do the cursory research and try to incorporate these places on your travel itinerary.

Ok, I'm comparing yorkshire with Ireland. In yorkshire you can walk into a pub without being met with at least 5 smaller brewers. Yes, I realise it's in the UK, but it's so refreshing.
Btw Clare is not a small county.

lufties · 30-08-2019 7:57pm

hesker wrote: »

The Rising Sons Brewery from Cork is doing well I believe.

I like a pint of stout now and again but got completely fed up with the variability of a certain brand.

Then someone put me on to Mi Daza and I can enjoy my pint again. It's now selling in Dublin too I believe.

Well hopefully it catches on.

lufties · 30-08-2019 7:58pm

thegills wrote: »

I asked my local in Killaloe if they had any craft beer and they pointed to a can of Carslberg.

Did he serve taytos and pink shnacks too?

L1011 · 30-08-2019 8:00pm

lufties wrote: »

Wary why? You'd think we'd consider own instead of foreign conglomerates. Especially when clearly the quality is better.

I guess most Irish people are happy with the muck they drink in pubs, otherwise things would change.

Having lived in Germany the choice was great too, going back to Irish pubs seems archaic in some ways considering how we pride ourselves on booze culture.

Because they know what's on the taps will sell and any new product from the big 3 and a half is usually accompanied by free kegs and so on.

lufties wrote: »

Ok, I'm comparing yorkshire with Ireland. In yorkshire you can walk into a pub without being met with at least 5 smaller brewers. Yes, I realise it's in the UK, but it's so refreshing.
Btw Clare is not a small county.

A vast amount of pubs in Yorkshire will have four or five taps from two breweries - the owner and Diageo (Guinness). Nothing else. Same all across the UK

arccosh · 30-08-2019 8:00pm

genuine question....

I love nothing more than a cold pint... but any of these ales/home brews are lukewarm... I've found a blonde before which was chilled but it wasn't great....

What are my options? I just usually grab Bierra Moreti or Peroni instead

Thelonious Monk · 30-08-2019 8:01pm

A large swathe of the population is weird about food or drink. Chicken balls from the Chinese and bud and guinness or Coors light. I live in a corpo estate and that's all they drink.
Its funny though now some of them drink Rockshore because of the advertising and colours. They knew what they were doing. Irish people love yellow flavourless piss. So do i sometimrs but variety is the spice of life.

L1011 · 30-08-2019 8:02pm

arccosh wrote: »

genuine question....

I love nothing more than a cold pint... but any of these ales/home brews are lukewarm... I've found a blonde before which was chilled but it wasn't great....

What are my options? I just usually grab Bierra Moreti or Peroni instead

The vast majority of Irish craft beer is served chilled.

LillySV · 30-08-2019 8:04pm

Irish publicans are too greedy and charge a fortune for craft beer... so less people try it... simple as that .

Lil Sally Anne Jnr. · 30-08-2019 8:09pm

Stupid thread populated by amateurs. Lots of craft ales on tap in Cork, and if you know where to look you'll get bottles of lambic, sours, even imperial stouts. Love a lambic or geuze, but love my pints of Guinness too. Gone on ta phuck with your British ales. The Brits wouldn't know how to make a daycent pub even if meant leaving the EU.

30-08-2019 8:10pm

lufties wrote: »

Ok, I'm comparing yorkshire with Ireland. In yorkshire you can walk into a pub without being met with at least 5 smaller brewers. Yes, I realise it's in the UK, but it's so refreshing.
Btw Clare is not a small county.

Clare has a much smaller population than Dublin, that was the implication.

Segment of OP I took issue with, and addressed:

lufties wrote: »

However, I never see them in Irish pubs outside Dublin. I've visited a few pubs recently in Tipp and Clare, they all serve the same mass produced rubbish.

Your initial claim. If you expect to float in to any pub down the country and be greeted with a plethora of craft ales then you are misguided. However, they aren't hard to find within a matter of seconds on the internet.

lufties · 30-08-2019 8:26pm

Lil Sally Anne Jnr. wrote: »

Stupid thread populated by amateurs. Lots of craft ales on tap in Cork, and if you know where to look you'll get bottles of lambic, sours, even imperial stouts. Love a lambic or geuze, but love my pints of Guinness too. Gone on ta phuck with your British ales. The Brits wouldn't know how to make a daycent pub even if meant leaving the EU.

That's your opinion, I drink great ales here in Yorkshire.

Keep drinking your drain cleaner like a good sheep.

lufties · 30-08-2019 8:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Clare has a much smaller population than Dublin, that was the implication.

Segment of OP I took issue with, and addressed:

Your initial claim. If you expect to float in to any pub down the country and be greeted with a plethora of craft ales then you are misguided. However, they aren't hard to find within a matter of seconds on the internet.

As I said, kilkee has none, also I stopped in a big pub outside limerick on the way, standard ****e. Same in tipperary.

I dont expect a plethora, just one or two would do.

ShamNNspace · 30-08-2019 8:34pm

lufties wrote: »

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Tis a pity. I normally go out once a week on a weekday in a county town. I like to visit maybe 4 pubs in town of a night so I mostly stick to what's available in all four ie carlsberg or H. I think from what I heard diagio have too much of a hold on the pubs and can influence what they stock

What do you mean by 'have too much of a hold'?

Well I've heard of cash and in kind sweeteners to certain pubs to keep the competition away from the taps where the cash flow is an then they've snookered the bar owner by providing their own "craft" beers like hop House, cute hoor an the like.. Now that's just my opinion mind

Dizzyblonde · 30-08-2019 8:36pm

@ lufties, I suggest that you be careful with the tone of your posts, a lot of them are borderline abusive and trollish and that won't be tolerated in this forum.

odyssey06 · 30-08-2019 8:38pm

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Well I've heard of cash and in kind sweeteners to certain pubs to keep the competition away from the taps where the cash flow is an then they've snookered the bar owner by providing their own "craft" beers like hop House, cute hoor an the like.. Now that's just my opinion mind

It's not just your opinion...
https://fora.ie/heineken-ireland-drinks-deals-3790360-Jan2018/

IRELAND’S COMPETITION WATCHDOG will not launch a full investigation into Heineken Ireland’s exclusive deals with sellers despite citing fears that the drinks giant could be unfairly shutting rivals out.

Lil Sally Anne Jnr. · 30-08-2019 8:41pm

lufties wrote: »

That's your opinion, I drink great ales here in Yorkshire.

Keep drinking your drain cleaner like a good sheep.

Very well acquainted with Yorkshire. Lovely looking pubs on the outside, table quizzes, bingo, and people drinking mediocre ales and Guinness knock offs inside.

lufties · 30-08-2019 8:47pm

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

@ lufties, I suggest that you be careful with the tone of your posts, a lot of them are borderline abusive and trollish and that won't be tolerated in this forum.

I'd say check out some of the other posters

badboyblast · 30-08-2019 8:49pm

lufties wrote: »

Gosh, that's unbelievable. I was in kilkee recently and the standard ****e was on tap everywhere. The edgiest drink I could get was beamish lol.

O yeah , Treaty City sold in most pubs in kilkee

lufties · 30-08-2019 8:50pm

Lil Sally Anne Jnr. wrote: »

Very well acquainted with Yorkshire. Lovely looking pubs on the outside, table quizzes, bingo, and people drinking mediocre ales and Guinness knock offs inside.

Not any of the places I've been, perhaps you were in the dingier places? One thing about England is the class system. Some real crap holes, but also real gems.

Ireland tends to have a bit more balance.

Insect Overlord · 30-08-2019 8:58pm

All this chat has me mad for a pint now!

Might have to treat myself to something from Mother Mac's...

Dizzyblonde · 30-08-2019 8:58pm

lufties wrote: »

I'd say check out some of the other posters

You're the only one being uncivil and insulting. Consider this your last warning.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 30-08-2019 8:59pm

badboyblast wrote: »

O yeah , Treaty City sold in most pubs in kilkee

Their red ale is fantastic! Highly recommended.

Why has craft beer and cask Ale not taken off in Irish pubs?

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