Why has craft beer and cask Ale not taken off in Irish pubs?

ShamNNspace

Aglomerado wrote: »

RasTa wrote: »

Sure even the off licenses have taps now and you drink inside over here in the UK

I was in a lovely one in Bath last year https://beercraftbath.com/
I went in for a look at the bottles & cans on sale and stayed for a couple of draught ones.

Near pulteney Bridge?? Stopped there myself last year had a few outside

Aglomerado

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Near pulteney Bridge?? Stopped there myself last year had a few outside

That's the one, lovely spot with a friendly lad in charge.

Hotblack Desiato

RasTa wrote: »

Sure even the off licenses have taps now and you drink inside over here in the UK

How does that work exactly?

irish_goat

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How does that work exactly?

You find them a lot in the continent, they're primarily off licences but they'll sometimes have a couple of taps and a few barstools where you can have a drink and a snack as well.

Here's an example of one I was at in Andorra. https://www.aswesawit.com/la-birreria-andorra/

ShamNNspace

irish_goat wrote: »

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How does that work exactly?

You find them a lot in the continent, they're primarily off licences but they'll sometimes have a couple of taps and a few barstools where you can have a drink and a snack as well.

Here's an example of one I was at in Andorra. https://www.aswesawit.com/la-birreria-andorra/

And your generally treated like an adult around alcohol

The Nal

ted1 wrote: »

It’s the squeeze Diageo/guiness have on pubs.

Indeed. Irish Distillers too. Same reason we had Yellow Tail or Blossom Hill quarter bottles in 90% of pubs until they sold off their wine business. We still have Jacobs Leak.

Very Irish stuff. Monopolies trying to quash start ups and independents.

Turquoise Hexagon Sun

Yeah even some pubs in Dublin still have the old boring selection that was there since I was a kid.

Guinness, Heineken Budweiser, Carlsberg:

It's really unsophisticated. It's like the X-Factor or the top-5 singles in the charts. Mindless pop-****e. Imagine, that was the only choice you had when walking in to a music store:

Justin Bieber, Katy Perry, Rihanna, Westlife.

Craft beer is like discovering there is a Pink Floyd in an ocean of Coldplays.

Any bar that purports to being a good bar but doesn't have any craft beer isn't a bar, imo. Even worse, when you ask if there are any IPA's or hoppy beers and they look at you like you have two heads. You're in the business of selling beer. Get it together.

And don't get me started on Guinness/Diageo trying to do "craft beer." What a crock of ****.

machaseh

Is this so? Although I live in Dublin I've been out in the country on various occasions, and I like how the beers do differ per region. In Kilkenny you have well kilkenny (which is my absolute favorite by the way), in Cork you have murphy's (also very good), in Galway you have Galway Hooker. Belfast of course is an entirely different story as it has all the English beers as well as the standard Irish fare.

What I would like to see more of, is pubs serving whatever craft beer is local to the area much more. But yes Irish people seem to be not very adventurous in the food and drink department (when compared to the Netherlands where I come from) so I doubt it'll take off anywhere except for the larger cities, which already do have craft beer pubs, and in the touristy areas in summer. Not in some godforsaken country pub in county Offally no.

BeerNut

machaseh wrote: »

In Kilkenny you have well kilkenny...What I would like to see more of, is pubs serving whatever craft beer is local to the area

And there's the problem. Kilkenny city has two operational breweries but is associated worldwide with a Dublin-brewed beer because its name is "Kilkenny". See also C&C's attempts to make Clonmel-brewed 5 Lamps more Dublin than the Dubs themselves.

Technocentral

90% of people dont like the taste of beer unless its in its most bland and basic form is the reason, I love roasty, toasty, hoppy and malty flavours in beers, IPAs and Imperial Stouts are my go toos.

eusap

Is it not all about Supply and Demand?, visit any belgian bar and you will also find the big four on tap (Duvel, Leffe, Hoegarden,Maes)

Irish Bars will stock craft beer if there is a demand, why wouldn't they the price is higher. Some great bars around Kildare and Kerry for craft beers.

But for me the market of craft beers is not the 10 pints on a saturday in the local, its lots of people who go to the supermarket/off licence and buy 3-4 bottles for the weekend. They sit and enjoy the beer and not swallow it down.

Ash.J.Williams

eusap wrote: »

Is it not all about Supply and Demand?, visit any belgian bar and you will also find the big four on tap (Duvel, Leffe, Hoegarden,Maes)

Irish Bars will stock craft beer if there is a demand, why wouldn't they the price is higher. Some great bars around Kildare and Kerry for craft beers.

But for me the market of craft beers is not the 10 pints on a saturday in the local, its lots of people who go to the supermarket/off licence and buy 3-4 bottles for the weekend. They sit and enjoy the beer and not swallow it down.

It's also about margins Diageo and Heineken would say they offer more revenue per keg

Twee.

Supply and demand can be influenced a bit more than margins. It's such a time sink (+cost of product used) but brands need to be out doing tastings and talking to potential customers, whether that's in bars, off-licences or at beer/food festivals (this one is particularly expensive). It's one part of a bigger strategy, but in my experience it works. There are some people and venues you'll never get over the line, but there's plenty you can!

NIMAN

I think what we grew up with has conditioned our taste buds!

If you drink Guinness, Carlsberg, Heineken for your best drinking years, from maybe 18 - 40, then often craft beers simply don't taste nice. Different yes, but many will simply return to what they are used to.

When SuperValu used to the their "4 craft beers for e10" deals, I'd often buy a few random ones. I'd say over the last few years I've tried 12 different craft beers, and none really made me want to go out and buy in a load for the fridge.

Ruraldweller56

Harp is a fine beer. Seldom enough seen in the bars these days.

I think it’s a mixture of things. It’s mainly just the big brands being the norm, some of it is the taste of a craft IPA can be quite jarring at first taste (my local has one and they sell nothing to most people after the first try), and some of it is the attitude of the craft beer “crew” (it’s quite an Irish thing in all areas to get in on something early and scoff at everyone who didn’t, thus shutting out newcomers). But that all said, it’s definitely growing and there are very few pubs these days I won’t get something I like.

Mongfinder General

I suspect local pubs don’t stock craft beers due to the pretentious hipster type arse holes who drink the stuff. Insufferable ****ers will drive your custom away.

TaurenDruid

NIMAN wrote: »

When SuperValu used to the their "4 craft beers for e10" deals, I'd often buy a few random ones. I'd say over the last few years I've tried 12 different craft beers, and none really made me want to go out and buy in a load for the fridge.

12 different beers? In the last few years?

Woah. Wild, man!

It's not a competition - but Untappd tells me I've on 50 different beers since 1st of June. Admittedly I was travelling for 3 weeks (though shamefully in Hong Kong I ended up drinking Tetleys...)

553 different beers since I installed the app (a few years ago). I'd say I've had 12 different beer styles since 1st June... stout, red ale, brown ale, IPAs, a couple of sours/fruit sours, grapefruit radler, weisse, blonde, lager...

If you've not found a craft beer you like, fair enough - but maybe try varying the styles you're trying?

Effects

Mongfinder General wrote: »

I suspect local pubs don’t stock craft beers due to the pretentious hipster type arse holes who drink the stuff.

You sound like someone who still wears boot cut jeans and doesn't like people who you think are better than you as they have developed their tastes further than you.

NIMAN

TaurenDruid wrote: »

12 different beers? In the last few years?

Woah. Wild, man!

It's not a competition - but Untappd tells me I've on 50 different beers since 1st of June. Admittedly I was travelling for 3 weeks (though shamefully in Hong Kong I ended up drinking Tetleys...)

553 different beers since I installed the app (a few years ago). I'd say I've had 12 different beer styles since 1st June... stout, red ale, brown ale, IPAs, a couple of sours/fruit sours, grapefruit radler, weisse, blonde, lager...

If you've not found a craft beer you like, fair enough - but maybe try varying the styles you're trying?

Yeah, tell me about it. My drinking days are well behind me. I tend not to drink at home, and I have the social life of a brick.

But it was used as an example to show that I tried 12 different tastings ales, beers, lagers, stouts and none of them appealed enough to me to go out and buy them again.

Effects

Effects wrote: »

You sound like someone who still wears boot cut jeans and doesn't like people who you think are better than you as they have developed their tastes further than you.

You see, that attitude doesn’t help. I know their post was mostly trash but the superiority complex is what puts a lot of people off. Just like what you like and don’t think you’re better than other people because of what you like, that’s the key. And that goes the other direction for people who don’t like craft beer too. It’’s a wonderful thing, which we are so lucky to have because so many breweries are producing here, so what’s the point in scoffing or thinking you’re God-like because of it?

TaurenDruid

Ah, gotcha, I thought you meant just 12 different brands :-)

Yup, it might well be that you've found your preferred beer style, and none of the craft styles beat it. Each to their own - my partner drinks the most bland lager available, but that suits them.

What annoys me is heading away for a weekend, going into the hotel bar, and finding that I may as well have stayed in Dublin - I might be in Dungarvan, Ennis, or Sligo, but it doesn't matter: they have three types of Diageo and two types of Heineken for sale, despite there being a good selection of local breweries within a 20-minute's drive. God forbid a tourist might want to try something local...

grindle

Effects wrote: »

You sound like someone who still wears boot cut jeans and doesn't like people who you think are better than you as they have developed their tastes further than you.

How in the name of god does wearing bootcut jeans equate to having undeveloped tastes?

"Wow Fionnachras, those tartan skinny jeans with the lime green stripes are on fleek and the vintage NAFF jacket engenders everything I love about streetwear in a pre-post-capitalist society, total yurt!" = some pleb with developed tastes?

RasTa

Mongfinder General

Effects wrote: »

You sound like someone who still wears boot cut jeans and doesn't like people who you think are better than you as they have developed their tastes further than you.

I’ll let you in on a little secret. Nobody gives a **** what you’re drinking. Nobody cares about the texture and added flavor created and nuanced by imported roasted Dutch barley. And nobody will give a fcuk when most of these micro breweries are bust or on their arses during the next recession. Diageo and a small oligopoly have the market by the balls. And good luck to them. And most of all nobody gives a fcuk about your opinion of how beer is brewed or boot cut jeans for that matter. You’re probably one of those d1cks who wears a neckerchief and corduroy jackets

Ipso

Barley is imported from the Netherlands?

DelmarODonnell

Mongfinder General wrote: »

I’ll let you in on a little secret. Nobody gives a **** what you’re drinking. Nobody cares about the texture and added flavor created and nuanced by imported roasted Dutch barley. And nobody will give a fcuk when most of these micro breweries are bust or on their arses during the next recession. Diageo and a small oligopoly have the market by the balls. And good luck to them. And most of all nobody gives a fcuk about your opinion of how beer is brewed or boot cut jeans for that matter. You’re probably one of those d1cks who wears a neckerchief and corduroy jackets

Why would we import barley from the Netherlands? That is just plain silly. It's like saying we should import milk from Italy for the coffee. Come on now out of that.

Micro breweries are doing great stuff, have a fantastic effect on the local economy and directly employ more people than the multinationals like Heineken and Diageo. Whether you want to drink the beer or not is your own choice but I pity the person who has to be sat beside you at the bar as you moan about the quality of your Guinness and growl at some fella ordering a beer brewed down the road instead of the usual crap.

ShamNNspace

+imv the microbreweries are reversing the Guinness policy of buying up many of the local breweries and subsequently closing them down over 100 yrs or so ago

Gloomtastic!

Remember people, please attack the post, not the poster. Nobody likes it when it gets personal.

The Gloomster!

Mongfinder General

DelmarODonnell wrote: »

Why would we import barley from the Netherlands? That is just plain silly. It's like saying we should import milk from Italy for the coffee. Come on now out of that.

Micro breweries are doing great stuff, have a fantastic effect on the local economy and directly employ more people than the multinationals like Heineken and Diageo. Whether you want to drink the beer or not is your own choice but I pity the person who has to be sat beside you at the bar as you moan about the quality of your Guinness and growl at some fella ordering a beer brewed down the road instead of the usual crap.

Imported barley. It’s just an example of the type of nonsense used to market some off colour ****e dreamed up in somebody’s bath tub.
As for guinness, great stuff if you want to pebble dash the toilet. And nobody has to sit beside me.

Eric Cartman

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Honestly? Advertising.

Every pub in the country sells Budweiser and Heineken. They're not fit for human consumption yet they're the go to "beers" for a good chunk of the population.

My local got in a range of the McGargles stuff a few years ago, it's a lot better than the commercial mass produced stuff, it was being handed out for FREE for anyone who wanted to try it at the start yet everyone still went back to the drain cleaner Budweiser and Mcgargles died a death. People are used to this muck and they're not willing to change.

to be fair its kind of a momentum thing, If youre heading into a pub you don't want to be the only one drinking a certain beer, the first two pints out of a seldom used tap are going to be filth.

I love a pint of hop house (which isnt even obscure) but outside of cities id be reluctant to order it unless i saw a few others drinking it.

Lewis_Benson

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Imported barley. It’s just an example of the type of nonsense used to market some off colour ****e dreamed up in somebody’s bath tub.
As for guinness, great stuff if you want to pebble dash the toilet. And nobody has to sit beside me.

What an odd thing to post.
Anyway, people can like whatever they want.

I love a good pale ale, particularly Blacks Kinsale Palr Ale.
I wish my locals would get a tap in, they already have a good selection, this would be the go to for me.

oceanman

to be honest I think craft beers are over rated and overpriced, in this country anyway.

Eric Cartman

oceanman wrote: »

to be honest I think craft beers are over rated and overpriced, in this country anyway.

definitely overpriced in most places. Most spots around the city would charge 5.70-6 quid for a pint of commercial now, not a chance am I paying 50 cent over that for what is probably only marginally better and not like ill care from pints 5-10 anyway.

TaurenDruid

And therein lies the problem - the macro breweries like Diageo and Heineken can work on economies of scale. They buy exponentially more grain and hops than your Blacks of Kinsale or your Kinnegars. So they can buy it at a huge discount compared to what the craft breweries have to pay. If the craft brewers are paying more for their basic ingredients, they've no choice but to pass it on to the consumer. So yeah - quality, small batch beer will cost more than mass produced generic ****e. (And yeah, ****e craft beer still costs more to produce than mass produced ****e, so even the "bad" craft beer will cost more than a pint of Bud, Heineken or Smithwicks).

mfceiling

I don't mind paying extra for craft beer. A good beer should cost more. Mass produced lager is as bland as it gets and I'd ratherthrow an extra euro or 2 at something that has a bit of flavour and taste to it.
I bought a can of Kinsales OG Kush last Friday and it was 4.39. Told my mate in work and he says "you could get 4 cans of Aldi's cider for that"....After telling me before that he likens it to drinking petrol!!

oceanman

mfceiling wrote: »

I don't mind paying extra for craft beer. A good beer should cost more. Mass produced lager is as bland as it gets and I'd ratherthrow an extra euro or 2 at something that has a bit of flavour and taste to it.
I bought a can of Kinsales OG Kush last Friday and it was 4.39. Told my mate in work and he says "you could get 4 cans of Aldi's cider for that"....After telling me before that he likens it to drinking petrol!!

after five or six pints they all taste the same anyway...

Geuze

Note that Sam Smith's brewery in the UK can sell a pint in a pub for GBP 1.34.

http://tandlemanbeerblog.blogspot.com/2019/09/what-times-mr-smith-coming.html

OK, they aren't a tiny brewer, but I don't think they are huge either.

L1011

Geuze wrote: »

Note that Sam Smith's brewery in the UK can sell a pint in a pub for GBP 1.34.

http://tandlemanbeerblog.blogspot.com/2019/09/what-times-mr-smith-coming.html

OK, they aren't a tiny brewer, but I don't think they are huge either.

That's 2.8%, so qualifies for reduced duty - not a huge cut admittedly - and obviously pays less duty anyway due to being that low.

The pub would be owned outright - so zero external supply chain costs, is relatively close to the brewery and is in an extremely deprived area.

Effects

Eric Cartman wrote: »

not like ill care from pints 5-10 anyway.

Ten pints on a night out sounds like a bit of a drinking problem though.

Technocentral

Same here its like I dont mind paying more for nice coffee in Cloudpicker over Centra coffee, I do like pints of cheap ale in Spoons too now and then only cause they are lovely.

Technocentral

Effects wrote:

Ten pints on a night out sounds like a bit of a drinking problem though.

Therein lies one of the problems, the quantity over quality merchants. I like to savour fine ales not lash them back.

TaurenDruid

Technocentral wrote: »

Therein lies one of the problems, the quantity over quality merchants. I like to savour fine ales not lash them back.

Same. I "binge drink" (according to the EU and Department of Health!), but my "binge" is three or four pints of good beer - not 10 of ****e chemical-laden tasteless crap.

But ideally I'd like a choice of decent low-alcohol beers - 2.5% to 4.2% - so I can have a few more if I want, rather than being limited to a choice of 5% and over IPAs, DIPAs and imperial stouts. I can currently only usually manage that if I'm going to a party and stop off at a good off licence - even the good craft beer pubs usually only carry one or two low-alcohol beets.

DelmarODonnell

Eric Cartman wrote: »

definitely overpriced in most places. Most spots around the city would charge 5.70-6 quid for a pint of commercial now, not a chance am I paying 50 cent over that for what is probably only marginally better and not like ill care from pints 5-10 anyway.

Are you seriously saying you wouldn't pay less than 10% more for a pint of what should be superior quality and locally owned and produced? I mean, if you are out for a long night, you are paying either €2.50-€5.00 more, which is easily spent in the chipper later that night anyway.

I can understand going to an offo and paying €1 for a can vs €3.50 for a craft beer but never in a pub.

Sure you may aswell be solely drinking Tuborg or Bavaria in that case, at least you'll pay significantly less for the pint.

Effects

Technocentral wrote: »

Therein lies one of the problems, the quantity over quality merchants. I like to savour fine ales not lash them back.

I've no problem drinking Guinness in a pub myself. But I wouldn't really drink it at home, preferring something better from my local off licence.

I also sometimes find if I drink craft on a night out I have a worse hangover, which I attribute to a higher ABV.

But I just find anyone drinking ten pints would be a bit too much these days, and not good for your health at all.

machaseh

I love my fine ales once in a while but I disagree with the notion that there is no place for lager or other cheap mass produced beers such as Guinness.

Lager is not worse than craft ales, it's just a different product. Lagers are mass produced and are purposefully light in taste so you can drink more of it. You drink it as a refreshing, neutral beverage and to get drunk.

Craft ales are something you'd maybe have 3 pints of at most, with a very strong and complex taste that is enjoyed slowly. Only pretentious D4 ''''hipsters'''' would slam down 10+ cans of craft beer on a night.

There is a place for both types of products. Just like you have Brennans pan bread and artesanal bakery sourdough bread. It's just a different product. Or an expensive cuban cigar versus a normal fag. Etc.

Effects

I had a bottle of Brooklyn Special Effects Non Alcoholic the other night. Nicest NA beer I've tasted I think.

oceanman

I suppose the nicest thing you could say about craft beer is that's an acquired taste..not for everyone though.

TaurenDruid

machaseh wrote: »

Lager is not worse than craft ales, it's just a different product. Lagers are mass produced and are purposefully light in taste so you can drink more of it. You drink it as a refreshing, neutral beverage and to get drunk.

Nope. Mass produced lagers - your Heinekens, Carlsbergs, Rockshores, Budweisers, Coors, etc. - might be purposefully light in taste but I doubt that's so you can drink more of it, it's moreso that brewing a lager with flavour requires more grain types, more hops, and often longer fermentation - which all adds to the cost.

Proof: any of the wonderful traditional continental lagers you can get in a decent offie or when on holiday in Germany or Belgium; and many of the craft lagers produced by Irish and British craft breweries.

odyssey06

Spaten or something similar available in pubs would suit me.

Have had some very nice craft beers - pale or session ales rather than IPAs - but can get a bit heavy not so much in alcohol as density...not sure if its the hops?

I think especially in touristy areas pub would be missing a trick not to stock something local.