Why has craft beer and cask Ale not taken off in Irish pubs?

lufties

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

You're the only one being uncivil and insulting. Consider this your last warning.

I couldn't give a damn. Close the thread and ban me please.

Ipso

Are you starting to see note Lagunitas in Ireland, since the Heineken buy out.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

lufties wrote: »

I couldn't give a damn. Close the thread and ban me please.

Not tonight bud.

L1011

Ipso wrote: »

Are you starting to see note Lagunitas in Ireland, since the Heineken buy out.

Increasingly common, both draught and cans/bottles in off licences that would not have done imported product.

lalababa

Hunky Monster wrote: »

lufties wrote: »

Hi, just an observation. Ireland has some fantastic micro brewers, solas being my favourite currently. However, I never see them in Irish pubs outside Dublin. I've visited a few pubs recently in Tipp and Clare, they all serve the same mass produced rubbish.
I live in Yorkshire, and every pub serves different ales ranging from 3.5% upwards. It's a shame it doesn't take off in Ireland as I'm sick of returning home to the same old Guinness, Heineken etc.

Honestly? Advertising.

Every pub in the country sells Budweiser and Heineken. They're not fit for human consumption yet they're the go to "beers" for a good chunk of the population.

My local got in a range of the McGargles stuff a few years ago, it's a lot better than the commercial mass produced stuff, it was being handed out for FREE for anyone who wanted to try it at the start yet everyone still went back to the drain cleaner Budweiser and Mcgargles died a death. People are used to this muck and they're not willing to change.

People like what they know and know what they like. If all you've ever drunk is bland gassy piss.

L1011

If it was McGargles in its very early days, the macros were better... I drank it out of a vague feeling of duty (its local. It was also cheap then). A red that was nearly black, an bafflingly strong* IPA (that was red) and a watery stout were the original offerings as far as I remember.

Turnaround in taste and quality is astounding.

*for the time

thegills

lufties wrote:

Did he serve taytos and pink shnacks too?

Surprisingly had a great selection of mainstream and specialty crisps.

ted1

L1011 wrote: »

The vast majority of Irish craft beer is served chilled.

Nor should it be. Cold beer hides the flavours

ted1

LillySV wrote: »

Irish publicans are too greedy and charge a fortune for craft beer... so less people try it... simple as that .

Really? Have you ever looked fir craft beer in an off-licence ? Stonewell is pretty much the same price as in pubs. They just can’t compeye on mass produced pi55

Ash.J.Williams

The answer is....margins

RasTa

After leaving I have come to the conclusion that Ireland is the worst place to drink in the 1st world.

Look at the states scene for local stuff, NZ. Germany, UK, Belgian, Dutch, Polish etc.

We are simply not good enough when it comes to beer choices, where and when we can drink.

However some of our pubs are the best in the world

laros

Was that MC gargles not made by one of the the big breweries?

The McGargles range is brewed by Rye River brewing in kildare

https://ryeriverbrewingco.com/

Phileas Frog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I live down the road from Ennis, McHugh's pub has nine varieties of Western Herd (a local craft brewary in Kilmaley) on tap. The Diageo/Heineken stranglehold is far from absolute. From my perspective, things have opened up in the last decade.

Western Herd own McHughs (and Flanagan's in Lahinch) by the way

Gloomtastic!

RasTa wrote: »

After leaving I have come to the conclusion that Ireland is the worst place to drink in the 1st world.

Look at the states scene for local stuff, NZ. Germany, UK, Belgian, Dutch, Polish etc.

We are simply not good enough when it comes to beer choices, where and when we can drink.

However some of our pubs are the best in the world

I remember the day you’d go into a bar and have a choice of draught Guinness, Smithwicks or Harp. You could also have bottles of the same with the added choice of McArdles.

When they installed a Carlsberg tap we thought the world was at our feet!

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

laros wrote: »

The McGargles range is brewed by Rye River brewing in kildare

https://ryeriverbrewingco.com/

It wasn’t anything amazing but infinitely better than Budweiser.

laros

It wasn’t anything amazing but infinitely better than Budweiser.

To be honest.... anything is better than Budweiser... :P you should try some of the Rye River specials. they have brought out some lovely beers in that range.

listermint

2 things to note.

I've yet to locate a cask ale in an English pub that I liked.

And I've yet to locate a barperson serving in a UK pub that would remotely get a job in Ireland.


Also I agree that Diageo and Heineken actively squeeze out competition all over the country deep pockets.

But also our micro breweries do themselves no favours. Many times I've picked up an article about a limited run only to take to the breweries twitter page to ask where I can pick up some and they don't respond whatsoever. They've no grasp on customer service or their distribution

salmocab

laros wrote: »

The McGargles range is brewed by Rye River brewing in kildare

https://ryeriverbrewingco.com/

Cheers someone else already put me straight on that one.

RasTa

listermint wrote: »

2 things to note.

I've yet to locate a cask ale in an English pub that I liked.

And I've yet to locate a barperson serving in a UK pub that would remotely get a job in Ireland.

Where do you live?

Agree on second point, as I calmly stand there and watch them serve the two people in front of me one drink each.

biko

Maybe it's because I'm in Galway city, but every pub has craft beer and a hairy hipster behind the bar to tell you all about it.
Go to the Salt House and it's like a lumberjack convention in there...

Bassfish

I have to go to England regularly and I've come to loathe English pubs. It's seems more an more of them are actually trying to emulate the Wetherspoons model rather than moving away from it. Bar staff are clueless, may as well be working in Greggs. Usually get served by some 18 year old girl who doesn't know an ale from a bacardi breeze. Fruit machines, a 50 inch TV every five feet, no beer mats and more and more of them are employing a Starbucks/Argos model of service where you pay at a till and collect the drink at the end of the bar.
I'm sure there's plenty of quaint proper old style pubs when you get out of the main urban centres but the urban pubs are the pits. I'd take a decent pint of Guinness in an Irish pub any day of the week over a warm flat microbrewed cask in one of those places!

riffmongous

Insect Overlord wrote: »

A younger me and my brother were chatting with one of our uncles, many years ago now, and the uncle let us in on a secret.

A lot of grownups don't really enjoy drinking all that much. More specifically, they don't really enjoy what they drink. They love the session, and they drink whatever offends them the least while they get drunk. Many drinkers go for quantity over quality and then brag about how many pints and shots they had afterwards. Booze is just the means to an end.

If you're not taking the time to enjoy the flavour of a beer, you're not going to experiment with new options and pay a little bit extra for the pleasure.

Yeah that would be me to some extent.. a good beer for me is one that doesn't turn my stomach when I get down to the last quarter of it (which all the standard Dutch/Danish/American muck does), or gives me a ferocious headache the next day. Can't stand IPA s either I'm afraid to say. I'm lucky to live in Austria where there's always a decent selection of blonde beers from here and the Czech that are grand

arccosh

Bassfish wrote: »

I have to go to England regularly and I've come to loathe English pubs. It's seems more an more of them are actually trying to emulate the Wetherspoons model rather than moving away from it. Bar staff are clueless, may as well be working in Greggs. Usually get served by some 18 year old girl who doesn't know an ale from a bacardi breeze. Fruit machines, a 50 inch TV every five feet, no beer mats and more and more of them are employing a Starbucks/Argos model of service where you pay at a till and collect the drink at the end of the bar.
I'm sure there's plenty of quaint proper old style pubs when you get out of the main urban centres but the urban pubs are the pits. I'd take a decent pint of Guinness in an Irish pub any day of the week over a warm flat microbrewed cask in one of those places!

RasTa wrote: »

Where do you live?

Agree on second point, as I calmly stand there and watch them serve the two people in front of me one drink each.

listermint wrote: »

2 things to note.

I've yet to locate a cask ale in an English pub that I liked.

And I've yet to locate a barperson serving in a UK pub that would remotely get a job in Ireland.

All of the above.... really puts me off going to the pub in England

Honesty I’d say it’s a combination of people liking what they’re familiar with, many craft beers being overpriced and the superior/wankery attitude of many craft “enthusiasts” perhaps being off putting to some.

biko

People tend to forget many craft beers taste like ****.
Whereas Guinness or Carlsberg is almost always a good pint.

arccosh

Batrachotox wrote: »

Honesty I’d say it’s a combination of people liking what they’re familiar with, many craft beers being overpriced and the superior/wankery attitude of many craft “enthusiasts” perhaps being off putting to some.

I like the idea of it in England, where you go in, have a little try for free and pick one you like, no dramas...


It's just they're usually lukewarm ****e, in pubs with zero craic full of dudes who'll be on there arse after 3 pints waffling to you about the commonwealth


I think in Ireland it's a completely different attitude to things, if you're passionate about something new, it's generally looked at with skeptisism, so it'll take some time to break down that "it's full of wankery" stance... but it also doesn't help that usually the first people to flock to trendy new things in Ireland are the "I'm doing it to be different, you're a sheep" **** :-D so it's catch 22.


Plus some prices are extortionate... the likes of the Porterhouse do OK with it as it's probably cheaper to mass brew own brands and suppliment them with popular brands, but still charge the same extortionate prices across the board to cover the costs of where they are located.


But if I'm in town, and even if I'm feeling adventurous to try something new, if it's and extra euro or 2 per pint over a Heineken or something, I'll stick with them.

RasTa

biko wrote: »

People tend to forget many craft beers taste like ****.
Whereas Guinness or Carlsberg is almost always a good pint.

That's rubbish in fairness.

L1011

biko wrote: »

People tend to forget many craft beers taste like ****.
Whereas Guinness or Carlsberg is almost always a good pint.

Carlsberg probably has the absolute worst tolerance of any beer sold widely for sitting in slow moving lines. If it hasn't been moving it'll be vile.

grindle

RasTa wrote: »

That's rubbish in fairness.

The Carlsberg bit is. Guinness is like stout-water. Inoffensive and refreshing in it's own way, good for a long session.
Maybe they meant "consistent" rather than "good pint", I can't imagine what positives anybody gets from a pint of Carlsberg. It's kinda foamy if you like foam I guess?

biko

L1011 wrote: »

Carlsberg probably has the absolute worst tolerance of any beer sold widely for sitting in slow moving lines. If it hasn't been moving it'll be vile.

I never had a an iffy pint of Carlsberg so can't judge that.

RasTa

biko wrote: »

I never had a an iffy pint of Carlsberg so can't judge that.

It's Carlsberg, it's all iffy. They even admitted it themselves.

biko

Carlsberg UK is trying to sell a new beer to sell to the craft beer crowd, and it's working.

And sure, why not. Try something new.
Just don't pretend to do it because "honesty" it's all about the dosh.

mdmix

ted1 wrote: »

It’s the squeeze Diageo/guiness have on pubs.

3 or 4 years ago most pubs in limerick, Clare or Tipp would have 1 or 2 taps of craft, in the last 2 years any pub that isint specifically a craft beer pub has replaced local beers with some Diageo "open gate" piss.

RasTa

biko wrote: »

Carlsberg UK is trying to sell a new beer to sell to the craft beer crowd, and it's working.

And sure, why not. Try something new.
Just don't pretend to do it because "honesty" it's all about the dosh.

No they are not. Nobody who is into their craft is going to go "ah yeah I'll drink Carlsberg's new one now"

Sales in the UK are down a lot to the other big boys hence this marketing push. The even upped the price

https://www.marketingweek.com/carlsberg-overhauls-brand-and-beer/

cython

biko wrote: »

Maybe it's because I'm in Galway city, but every pub has craft beer and a hairy hipster behind the bar to tell you all about it.
Go to the Salt House and it's like a lumberjack convention in there...

In fairness, the Salt House is owned and operated by GBB, so of all places it (along with Oslo) would be full of lesser known options. That said though, Galway had other options like Bierhaus going back years so probably to be expected that other bars would see a market for them to stock a decent range.

Lewis_Benson

arccosh wrote: »

genuine question....

I love nothing more than a cold pint... but any of these ales/home brews are lukewarm... I've found a blonde before which was chilled but it wasn't great....

What are my options? I just usually grab Bierra Moreti or Peroni instead

Lukewarm??

Where did you get a cask ale served like that?

They should be cellar chilled, not refrigerated now, but just cold enough.

Lewis_Benson

biko wrote: »

Maybe it's because I'm in Galway city, but every pub has craft beer and a hairy hipster behind the bar to tell you all about it.
Go to the Salt House and it's like a lumberjack convention in there...

One of my favourite pubs.

L1011

Lewis_Benson wrote: »

Lukewarm??

Where did you get a cask ale served like that?

They should be cellar chilled, not refrigerated now, but just cold enough.

People who are used to super chilled lagers / adjunct lagers will find cellar temperature to be "lukewarm" in comparison. Perception rather than what the temperature reading will say!

Lewis_Benson

L1011 wrote: »

People who are used to super chilled lagers / adjunct lagers will find cellar temperature to be "lukewarm" in comparison. Perception rather than what the temperature reading will say!

This is true
One of my locals has their guinness cold to the point you get brain freeze from it.
They have another tap which pours at chiller temp, the difference when drinking is vast.

the beer revolu

Lewis_Benson wrote: »

Lukewarm??

Where did you get a cask ale served like that?

They should be cellar chilled, not refrigerated now, but just cold enough.

That poster didn't mention cask ale.
Seems to think that all ale/craft beer/homebrew?? is served lukewarm.

DelmarODonnell

biko wrote: »

Carlsberg UK is trying to sell a new beer to sell to the craft beer crowd, and it's working.

And sure, why not. Try something new.
Just don't pretend to do it because "honesty" it's all about the dosh.

That is just very wrong. Carlsberg is losing ground to other lagers and is trying to rejig the formula/advertising to appeal again to lager drinkers.

Very few people who are into Craft Beer are drinking much lager as the craft breweries tend not to make much of the style, it is actually fairly difficult to produce a really clean consistent lager (not Heineken, Carlsberg etc)

Myself, I drink craft beer because 1) I love trying new types of beer 2) For the most part, I think the beer is of a fair higher quality and 3) Me spending my money on craft beer instead of Macros is undoubtedly keeping more money in the local economy. Micro Breweries create far more jobs than the Multinationals like Diageo or Heineken and keep profits in the hands of locals to reinvest in the country.

On cost, there is of course a huge difference in price if you buy from the off licence as the micro breweries don't have capacity to sell at the volume required to reduce the price. However in pubs you will find the price of a craft beer almost the same as a pint of Heineken.

In Bray in my local, a pint of Wicklow Wolf Elevation Pale Ale is €5.80 and a pint of Heineken €5.70. They make the beer 5 minutes away from the pub and the fellas running it are from the town and even grow some of their own ingredients in Roundwood.

Effects

biko wrote: »

Carlsberg is almost always a good pint.

Sorry, Carlsberg always tastes like a shít beer.

listermint

biko wrote: »

I never had a an iffy pint of Carlsberg so can't judge that.

I can't count on two hands how many bad pints of carlsberg I've had.

You'd want to be off your head to think it's the most consistent pint.


Quality lols.

baconsarnie

Going back to the OP, I would say there are a number of contributory factors.

Way back, Ireland (much like the UK) had a range of local breweries, which eventually became a duopoly. Whilst there is massive progress in the number of local craft breweries, it is a relatively recent phenomenon.

I think three massive contributory factors are: the large breweries doing everything that they can do to maintain their market share, the role of publicans and how consumers view alcohol as a product.

As mentioned before, there have been numerous examples of multibillion companies using their marketing resources to launch "craft" ales and at the same time, pressuring pubs to remove taps from smaller breweries. Craft ale won't take off in rural areas if there are no products on tap.

This is linked with publicans. Most pubs (certainly in rural settings) are passed down within a family. Very few have any interest in the product they serve and are happy with keeping things ticking over. Fair enough, some people might say. But I can bet you that a large proportion of pub owners wouldn't have a clue how beer is brewed, or the difference between an ale or a larger. Many will say, why should they? I think if i went into a butchers, I would like to be given the impression that they know more about the product they are selling than me and be able, at a bare minimum, to tell me the difference between pork and beef.

Finally, a really important point was made earlier: many people drink for social purposes or simply to get drunk. I genuinely know lots of people who drank brand X as it is available and that they started drinking it when they were 18 and it was the least vile product available. They can sink 6-10 pints of it in a sitting and it more or less doesn't kill them. The concept that taste or enjoying the product is not even secondary, it isn't even on the radar.

However that does change. You only need to look at how wine consumption changed in Ireland (from Black Tower and La Piat D'Or as being our two choices) and the availability of craft beer in practically every Centra around the country.

It will require consumers to ask consistently for something different and not be shy in vocalising that cans of Carlsberg doesn't constitute choice!!!

Clegg

I don't know much about the availability of cask ales, but craft beers are widely available. You still have the traditional boozers that do the usual Guinness, Heineken, Coors etc, but lots of pubs will have a tap or two of a craft IPA. And the newer pubs will have an entire row of them. I agree that Dublin seems to have a greater variety to choose from, but the rest of the country wouldn't be bereft of choice.

It's the same for the off licenses. My local Molloy's has its entire back section dedicated to Irish and international craft beers. Lots of Irish micro brewery representation too.

Twee.

In terms of craft beer availability, getting out and selling your brand is a hard job, especially in a small company where there's no budget yet for a sales person or brand ambassador. You're relying on your distributor who probably has some other beer accounts with better margin, can sell more volume, and they're the ones they push. Not all distributors are like this but from my experience you need to do something to really get them selling your product for you. Getting brand owners, founders, brewers out on to the sales trail is hard but it sometimes has to be done, and it should yield sales. People buy from people, as they say. As consumers, it's up to us to ask at the bar and order local where possible. If you know there's a beer being brewed relatively nearby, be cheeky and ask the bartender why haven't they got, it's only up the road sure :pac:

Fighting for tap space is damn hard, getting a space in a fridge for cans might be easier, and then promoting the hell out of the listing with whatever you can (social media, effective POS, tastings, proper staff training & tastings). But this all takes time, money, and some expertise.

Staff training is a big one, many venues from pubs to cocktail bars don't invest the time with staff, and when offered free tastings and training by brands, they're "too busy" to organise it.

dvdman1

Craft is always very expensive in irish bars..its a big turn off..i dont mind paying as i know how tough it is for micros
The macros have all the pubs in there pocket, they pay for signs bar refurbishment and all sorts so there tap is front n centre at the bar, micros just cant compete.
Theres also the fake micro taps in disguise...cutehoor, orchard thieves...all macros pretending.

ShamNNspace

Imo it's a pity the cafe bar bill was shot down by the usual shower.. Maybe some of the craft beers foreign and Irish could have been sold there.. Iv lived abroad for a lot of my life an iv always lamented the fact I can't sit in a cafe here of a morning with my paper and maybe people watch witha nice beer instead of having to go to a dark pub(if its even open) of a morning.. Ya know sometimes if people were treated like adults and given some responsibility instead of being nannied all the time then maybe they might take some responsibility.. Anyways I'm gone a bit off the point of the thread

RasTa

Sure even the off licenses have taps now and you drink inside over here in the UK

Aglomerado

RasTa wrote: »

Sure even the off licenses have taps now and you drink inside over here in the UK

I was in a lovely one in Bath last year https://beercraftbath.com/
I went in for a look at the bottles & cans on sale and stayed for a couple of draught ones.