Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

chicorytip wrote: »

My point is neither Bottas nor Ocon are anywhere near good enough for the task. If I were Mercedes, Sainz is exactly the type I would be looking to recruit even if it meant buying out his contract with McLaren.

What's the task though? I think the task is to score Constructors points and pick up a couple of wins per season. They know they have a world champion in Hamilton so the teammate doesn't HAVE to be as good. If he can do a Rosberg and beat Hamilton then great.

I think the task for now is to win the Constructors. The long term plan is to replace Hamilton. Keeping bottas is not about replacing Hamilton. Hiring ocon is an attempt at succession planning.

If they go for bottas they will have to buy a driver to replace Hamilton. But if they have the best car they can probably anyone they want it will probably be more expensive.

skipper_G wrote: »

On paper there's not much more Bottas should be doing but look deeper and it's a slightly different picture. This article on racefans explained it quite well I thought
https://www.racefans.net/2019/08/09/what-rosbergs-last-mercedes-deal-tells-us-about-bottass-chances-of-staying/

My take on it is that Rosberg was a much better driver than Bottas is, when they took Bottas on it was a downgrade. His results were decent but never really spectacular and he has never looked like a credible threat to Hamilton. At the same time I don't necessarily believe that Ocon would be any closer to Hamilton than Bottas is. The big difference is probably that Ocon has more potential to improve.

Well, anyone who came up with the rubbish about Rosberg being a "mediocre driver" either doesn't understand much about motorsport and F1, is a diehard Hamilton fan or has some form of beef with Nico.

At the end of 2016, putting any driver in the second Mercedes other than Alonso, Vettel, Ricciardo or Button (another often overlooked driver who beat Hamilton as a team mate) would have been a downgrade.

Mercedes had to make a choice to either get one of the these - Vettel and Ricciardo would've been difficult, Button was retiring but Alonso was definitely a possibility - or go for a lower profile driver who would have, in all likelyhood, just gone to serve as second fiddle to Hamilton. They went for Bottas as he was known to the team and has all the characteristics they needed: a steady, reliable pair of hands capable of delivering heaps of points while not quite on the "WOW!" level.

There's certainly merit in considering Mercedes wanting to follow in the steps of Red Bull and Ferrari, getting their young gun in the car as a projection for the future, but it remains to be seen - is Ocon their "future driver"? The article points out an extremely interesting fact - he has never driven in testing this year. IIRC, Russel has jumped on the Mercedes in his stead. That's pretty much what happened last year with Ferrari, when Leclerc took over from Alfa/Sauber for the testing.

A final season with Bottas and then Russel being promoted to the seat is definitely a realistic possibility.

chicorytip wrote: »

The "task" is to acheive complete dominance in the drivers championship, first and second position in every race. Freakish events, such as at Hockenheim recently, will occur but the Merc is the best car on the grid by a mile so Bottas ought to be delivering the goods on a far more consistent basis than he is doing. I think he lacks driving skills. It's as simple as that.

Yeah bit if verstappen is the best or at least the only driver who's close o Hamilton, then the only way they'll have Complete dominance is to hire verstappen. And they don't want to do that for the obvious reason that he would genuinely challenge and upset Hamilton.

I think that might want domination)or at least to win the drivers and Constructors, but I doubt they want the 2 best drivers in the team at the same time. They have the best car so they don't need genuine driver rivalry to win both championships.

Albon in for Gasly

Gasly and Kvyat both at TR now

Redbull can be very ruthless. Suppose that's part of the sport and Gasly hasn't lived up to it.

I do like Gasly, he's been out drove by Verstappen by a mile but I think it's been exagerrated. His first season and only ferrari, mercedes and his teammate ahead of him. He is far back though.

Just getting smacks of Kvyat again but he at least was given one full season before being dumped after a couple in the next.

Thought they'd have gone back to Kyvat rather than Albon. Really hope Gasly drives with a vengeance now and puts in some good displays for TR.

If I were Kvyat, I'd start talking to other teams for next year. 6 places and 11 points ahead of Albon in the championship and Albon gets the promotion. He'll end up at Haas, wait and see.

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Red Bull made the move now in an attempt to snatch second in both championships surely. They hadn’t a prayer of second in the constructors with Gasly being so poor. Be interesting to see who’ll win the Kvyat/Gasly battle

Good spot. Its a shot to nothing. If they didn't change anything, Gasley was unlikely to help them win. If albon is better, he might help them get 2nd. If he's not better then they've lost nothing

Albon has adapted really well to get up to speed in the Toro Rosso considering he'd never driven an F1 car until the first pre-season test. Like Kvyat & Gasly before him, this could ruin him if the results don't come, but he's better than most people give him credit for so it's a risk worth taking. He's unlikely to beat Verstappen any time soon and the gap may well start off similar to Gasly but he's studious enough that he will get closer. That's the thing Gasly hasn't been able to do

While purely on standings and without knowing any history kvyat would have been the person you'd put in.
In reality Kvyat back there was unlikely to ever happen.
I do feel sorry for gasly but he has been thoroughly outraced by verstappen and F1 is a ruthless sport with Red Bull probably the most ruthless of all.
It's a results game and if someone else was in the red bull second seat for the first half of the year you'd have to imagine that they'd be ahead of Ferrari in the constructors.

They'd have access to all the data on Albon so you'd assume they made the choice based on that and putting Kvyat in the car at this point would look like a climb down from when they dropped him originally (although I did think it was harsh when they did it). Red bull (Marko) do not like losing face.

If Albon screws up in his first couple of races, he could find himself back at Torro Rosso pretty quick and Kvyat in the car. Will be interesting to see if he can be closer to Max than Gasly was. I do feel bad for Gasly but F1 is a tough business with little room for underperformance, particularly in a front running car.

eviltimeban wrote: »

Not that it's hugely important here but when you switch teams, you keep your drivers points yeah?

Driver keeps his individual points tally but they remain Red Bull championship points.

So will split it up. Anything he earns now on goes to STR tally, and is added to his personal tally.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think Williams have said his money is dependent on his seat so Williams would have to replace his money to replace him. But they might get some money and dump him. Maybe ocon with some Mercedes money?

I think it will be a long time before we hear the following argument again; "ah but hiring x driver would bring so much good will from fans, and airtime that sponsors will be queueing up"

Russell has no f1 profile and he gets loads of airtime because he's fast. Fast drivers get publicity.

His seat could yet go to Latifi next season, he only needs a top 5 finish in F2 to get the superlicence points he needs, currently 2nd. And has more money than Kubica. I don't think Ocon is going anywhere near a Williams, Mercedes or Renault more like.