Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

rock22

Funny how F1 getting corrupt governments to spend tax payers money on a race is ok but questioning that decision is seen as bring politics into sport.

F1 want also to invite Saudi Arabia into the mix. A country that hacked to death an journalist in it's own embassy.
There is no doubt that these regimes are willing to spend a lot of money trying to sanitise their reputations. It is a shame that F1, a sport I have followed for 50 years, is seemingly so willing to facilitate them. Perhaps a boycott of Mercedes, Renault, Honda etc would change their minds. Perhaps a motion in European parliament banning F1 in Europe would help change minds.

pjohnson

rock22 wrote: »

Funny how F1 getting corrupt governments to spend tax payers money on a race is ok but questioning that decision is seen as bring politics into sport.

F1 want also to invite Saudi Arabia into the mix. A country that hacked to death an journalist in it's own embassy.
There is no doubt that these regimes are willing to spend a lot of money trying to sanitise their reputations. It is a shame that F1, a sport I have followed for 50 years, is seemingly so willing to facilitate them. Perhaps a boycott of Mercedes, Renault, Honda etc would change their minds. Perhaps a motion in European parliament banning F1 in Europe would help change minds.

You do that then. Why didnt you start this scheme 16 years ago when Bahrain joined the calendar?

skipper_G

rock22 wrote: »

Funny how F1 getting corrupt governments to spend tax payers money on a race is ok but questioning that decision is seen as bring politics into sport.

F1 want also to invite Saudi Arabia into the mix. A country that hacked to death an journalist in it's own embassy.
There is no doubt that these regimes are willing to spend a lot of money trying to sanitise their reputations. It is a shame that F1, a sport I have followed for 50 years, is seemingly so willing to facilitate them. Perhaps a boycott of Mercedes, Renault, Honda etc would change their minds. Perhaps a motion in European parliament banning F1 in Europe would help change minds.

News story pops up reporting that Saudi Arabia is interested in F1, not the other way around mind you. Unless I've missed the press release where F1 or Liberty talk about the exciting new race in Saudi, what exactly is it that I should condemn? By not condemning something I didn't know I should have, does that make me a Saudi apologist? But yeah let's just have a complete ban, including the enormous list of governments, NGOs and companies all over the world that do business with the regime, let's ban those too

TCP/IP

Can we move back to talking about F1 racing. Perhaps if people feel so strong about politics use a separate thread or forum to discuss.

d8491prj5boyvg

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Other tracks that would be great to see back on the calendar would be Imola, Adelaide,Estoril,Jerez,Magny Cours,Detroit.

Agree with all except magny cours, that was always a drone fest.

the_pen_turner

the problem is that they dont change the traks enough if they are geting boring or not producing good racing.
im sure there are some tracks that are crap now that could easily be changed to give great racing. even the likes of monaco could be imroved by using other streets etc or even changing from clockwise to anti clockwise etc

d8491prj5boyvg

the_pen_turner wrote: »

the problem is that they dont change the traks enough if they are geting boring or not producing good racing.
im sure there are some tracks that are crap now that could easily be changed to give great racing. even the likes of monaco could be imroved by using other streets etc or even changing from clockwise to anti clockwise etc

Monaco is iconic! Either work with what's there or go somewhere else. Worst of both worlds to stay in Monaco without the iconic track!

mickdw

I think you underestimate what monaco goes through to hold the race. 6 months of the year is taken over between building up the circuit and taking it down.
To run it on new streets would take a crazy amount of planning and disruption.
To run it on new streets or anti clockwise would take away from the historic part of it.

the_pen_turner

Payton Low Corkscrew wrote: »

Monaco is iconic! Either work with what's there or go somewhere else. Worst of both worlds to stay in Monaco without the iconic track!

im not saying move it completely. i mean to add a few more bit to the existing circuit so that there would be some overtaking areas. monaco is great for driver skill and getting so close to the walls etc is amazing. all it needs more racing and overtaking

the_pen_turner

mickdw wrote: »

I think you underestimate what monaco goes through to hold the race. 6 months of the year is taken over between building up the circuit and taking it down.
To run it on new streets would take a crazy amount of planning and disruption.
To run it on new streets or anti clockwise would take away from the historic part of it.

screw the historics. monaco is a terrible track for racing. it is only there for nostalgic reasons .
i dont think adding a few more bits to it would add that much headaches to the organisation

Jordan 199

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Other tracks that would be great to see back on the calendar would be Imola, Adelaide,Estoril,Jerez,Magny Cours,Detroit.

I don't see Estoril returning. If the Portuguese GP was to return, it would be at Portimao.

El_Duderino 09

the_pen_turner wrote: »

the problem is that they dont change the traks enough if they are geting boring or not producing good racing.
im sure there are some tracks that are crap now that could easily be changed to give great racing. even the likes of monaco could be imroved by using other streets etc or even changing from clockwise to anti clockwise etc

Monaco is just unfit for purpose. It's just in the calendar for old times sake. If it was about the racing it would be in competition with Paul Ricard to be dropped first. Terrible race almost guaranteed. But we're supposed to satisfy ourselves with memories of the past and pretend it's a good race.

El_Duderino 09

Payton Low Corkscrew wrote: »

Monaco is iconic! Either work with what's there or go somewhere else. Worst of both worlds to stay in Monaco without the iconic track!

Go somewhere else. They could always have an F1 retreat in Monaco where they have parties, invite celebs, discuss fashion, do deals for sponsorship and supplying services. And then they could never tell me about it because I couldn't give a shyte about that any more than I care about the terrible race in Monaco every year.

the_pen_turner

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Monaco is just unfit for purpose. It's just in the calendar for old times sake. If it was about the racing it would be in competition with Paul Ricard to be dropped first. Terrible race almost guaranteed. But we're supposed to satisfy ourselves with memories of the past and pretend it's a good race.

i agree entirely.
but i would try and improve it before i would drop it.
it is great to see the driver skill getting that close to the walls.
i like the onboard clips we see

if some overtaking areas could be added so that its not a procession thne it could be a great race

skipper_G

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i agree entirely.
but i would try and improve it before i would drop it.
it is great to see the driver skill getting that close to the walls.
i like the onboard clips we see

if some overtaking areas could be added so that its not a procession thne it could be a great race

They are doing more land reclamation at the moment. If it was feasible I'd be in favour of extending the track through these new sections of land and trying to add a couple of proper overtaking opportunities rather than dropping it completely.

d8491prj5boyvg

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Go somewhere else. They could always have an F1 retreat in Monaco where they have parties, invite celebs, discuss fashion, do deals for sponsorship and supplying services. And then they could never tell me about it because I couldn't give a shyte about that any more than I care about the terrible race in Monaco every year.

Agree they should go somewhere else. The attraction of Monaco is the nostalgia. Changes might help overtaking but given space vibrations it is not likely to help much. What a farce it would be to be there for nostalgia, have a ****ty track, and not even have a nostalgic event because the track has changed! Either keep the nostalgic track and go for the nostalgia or go elsewhere.

the_pen_turner

Payton Low Corkscrew wrote: »

Agree they should go somewhere else. The attraction of Monaco is the nostalgia. Changes might help overtaking but given space vibrations it is not likely to help much. What a farce it would be to be there for nostalgia, have a ****ty track, and not even have a nostalgic event because the track has changed! Either keep the nostalgic track and go for the nostalgia or go elsewhere.

I don't see why you can't have both

pjohnson

In other F1 related news ex-Toro Rosso driver Scott Speed has broken 3 vertebrae in his back yesterday after a crash in Rallycross qualifying.

d8491prj5boyvg

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I don't see why you can't have both

Of course. 2021 rules might help, for example. But we are taking about changing the track. This means you lose some of what makes it special. Even now it's not as special as it used to be. A few sterilised turns with car park run offs jutting into the sea will ruin the place.

rock22

I think what makes it special is that a lot of drivers, and others involved, live there and they see it as a home race. It is undoubtedly trilling if you are there but it is a very boring TV spectacle, essentially a procession.
But it will be retained .

billybonkers

Monaco is all about Saturday and has been for years. I don't think they should get rid of it though, its some spectacle

El_Duderino 09

billybonkers wrote: »

Monaco is all about Saturday and has been for years. I don't think they should get rid of it though, its some spectacle

It's not a spectacle of motor racing though, And that's primarily what people want. It's good for Celebrities, fancy yachts, expensive apartments, if that's what you're into. It's the worst race on the calendar. The only good thing about it is the camera angles. The barriers allow cameras to get incredibly close. But the racing is 1/10 every year. Worst race a new or prospective fan could possibly watch.

Anesthetize

I always look forward to qualifying at Monaco. The race itself is just a parade for the rich and famous.

What they should do with Monaco is change the format of a F1 grand prix just for one weekend. Instead of it being a traditional race, change the race to a time-trial format. The 'race' can be spread over a Saturday session and a Sunday session, using the same format currently used for qualifying on both days, but with the addition on both days of a 'Q4' where the top 5 drivers have a 10-minute shoot-out for top spot. The final positions will be based on the drivers best times across the two sessions.

You will also end up with the race going down to the wire on Sunday as any of the few remaining drivers can pull the fastest time out of the bag within the dying minutes.

El_Duderino 09

Anesthetize wrote: »

I always look forward to qualifying at Monaco. The race itself is just a parade for the rich and famous.

What they should do with Monaco is change the format of a F1 grand prix just for one weekend. Instead of it being a traditional race, change the race to a time-trial format. The 'race' can be spread over a Saturday session and a Sunday session, using the same format currently used for qualifying on both days, but with the addition on both days of a 'Q4' where the top 5 drivers have a 10-minute shoot-out for top spot. The final positions will be based on the drivers best times across the two sessions.

You will also end up with the race going down to the wire on Sunday as any of the few remaining drivers can pull the fastest time out of the bag within the dying minutes.

What do you always look forward to about the weekend? The parade aspect or the rich and famous aspect? Or what?

Burkie1203

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What do you always look forward to about the weekend? The parade aspect or the rich and famous aspect? Or what?

I think the odds of a safety car spicing it up is all it has going for it these days

H3llR4iser

Bellyaching about Monaco is quite frankly ridiculous. It's one race out of 20+, it's always been there, it does present some unique challenges in the calendar (as testified by some drivers, even WDCs like Nelson Piquet and Jacques Villeneuve, who could never "click in" with the track) and it's a crucial moment in the season for commercial and business deals - most of them happen on that one week end. Arguably, the "Monaco Grand Prix" is more famous than Formula 1 itself; People who don't know what the latter is (believe me, there are plenty) have at least heard about Monaco, just like many people who have no idea such a thing as "Indycar" exists tend to know what the Indianapolis 500 is.

What distinguishes Formula 1 from other, lesser forms of motorsport is its history and although the "rose tinted glasses" syndrome is to be avoided, it'd be beyond idiotic to hack away pieces of said history because there are "no overtakes". If that is the direction, it'd be quicker to just disband the series altogether and replace it with a spec chassis and engine, show based affair, which won't be F1 anymore. History should have thought us that going along with "fans demands" is almost inevitably recipe for disaster. The "fans" wanted faster cars - we have the fastest cars to ever hit a racetrack, and racing has suffered as a result, just like anyone with an ounce of technical understanding widely predicted it would happen.

Monaco shouldn't be the target, all the races in pointless, farcical places should be; We don't need a gazillion "street curcuits", it's been proven time and again that more traditional, purpose built tracks produce better races. Also, there's no need to go and absolutely destroy existing tracks with wishy-washy new layouts; Whomever redesigned Silverstone by adding a bunch of 2nd gear corners thinking it'd be "faster", for example, is a complete idiot.
When the Hungaroring, widely considered a "zero racing" track when it was introduced in 1986, is now one of the tracks that produces more interesting races, including the last one three weeks ago - simply by being a proper "old-style" track, a good and hard thought should be given about what kind of crud makes up the rest of the calendar.

Stevieluvsye

Melbourne and Monaco. Two ****e circuits that should both be ditched

Darkglasses

Monaco's racing is terrible, but as H3llR4iser points out it'll never happen. I'm more interested in seeing Sochi and Melbourne dumped really.

El_Duderino 09

Darkglasses wrote: »

Monaco's racing is terrible, but as H3llR4iser points out it'll never happen. I'm more interested in seeing Sochi and Melbourne dumped really.

It's true that it won't be dumped but the reasons are : tradition, it's the way it's always been done, history. It's another example of f1 claiming to be the most high tech racing series, but being pulled further and further back into the past. F1 choosing to be hamstrung by tradition is a very sad thing indeed.

Monaco is a dead weight, a rotting vestigial organ that needs to be cut off to save the whole.

patmahe

I like Monaco as a once a year novelty, seeing the best drivers in the world hustle those incredible cars around the streets of a small town is astonishing to behold. Would I want to watch it every weekend, no, as an annual spectacle though I think its worth keeping.