My â‚¬100m BEAM scheme

epfff · 12-07-2019 5:38pm #1

Thought it deserved a thread of its own as it was taking over me beef price.

My reading so far is that the farm must reduce its nitrates per farm as opposed to reducing the nitrates per ha am i reading this correct?

Base price · 12-07-2019 6:21pm

epfff wrote: »

Thought it deserved a thread of its own as it was taking over me beef price.

My reading so far is that the farm must reduce its nitrates per farm as opposed to reducing the nitrates per ha am i reading this correct?

Yep, I'm reading it that way also as per the link from the IFJ that I posted in the beef price thread https://www.farmersjournal.ie/100m-beam-scheme-are-you-eligible-for-the-beef-aid-payment-478620
Although I see another IFJ article since that appears to question/put the stops on the proposal - maybe I'm reading it incorrectly https://www.farmersjournal.ie/100m-beef-scheme-another-fund-needed-to-cover-ongoing-losses-478773

epfff · 12-07-2019 6:27pm

From my reading if i was to get 1000ha extra ground next year and enter into this scheme i will still have to reduce the amount nitrates i produce.
Hmmm think i will need to read this one a few times

Base price · 12-07-2019 6:45pm

epfff wrote: »

From my reading if i was to get 1000ha extra ground next year and enter into this scheme i will still have to reduce the amount nitrates i produce.
Hmmm think i will need to read this one a few times

According to the IFJ article - "The Irish Farmers Journal understands that exporting slurry or renting additional land will not be counted as a reduction in total nitrogen output".
I presume you can buy the 1000 extra hectares and you won't have to reduce your nitrates

I doubt that this is a done deal as the Irish Government has to send these proposals to the European Commission before the 31st of July - they may not accept them or there could be amendments before that date.

bogman_bass · 13-07-2019 11:33am

I imported slurry last year. If that slurry was equivalent to 10% of the nitrates of my own herd could I keep my numbers and just not import this year?

Base price · 13-07-2019 8:07pm

bogman_bass wrote: »

I imported slurry last year. If that slurry was equivalent to 10% of the nitrates of my own herd could I keep my numbers and just not import this year?

TBH I would wait until the finer details of the scheme are announced as it may change before been ratified by the EU Commission on 31st of July.

Keep Sluicing · 13-07-2019 11:37pm

Base price wrote: »

TBH I would wait until the finer details of the scheme are announced as it may change before been ratified by the EU Commission on 31st of July.

Joe Healy was on earlier that they are lobbying to get the exclusion of dairy farmers overturned as its unfair

High bike · 17-07-2019 11:29am

Keep Sluicing wrote: »

Joe Healy was on earlier that they are lobbying to get the exclusion of dairy farmers overturned as its unfair

Next thing will be give Larry and the feed lots a slice of the pie ffs

epfff · 17-07-2019 11:56am

Keep Sluicing wrote: »

Base price wrote: »

TBH I would wait until the finer details of the scheme are announced as it may change before been ratified by the EU Commission on 31st of July.

Joe Healy was on earlier that they are lobbying to get the exclusion of dairy farmers overturned as its unfair

Do dairy farmers want the 5% reduction?
Do i want the 5% reduction?
Will there be a knock on effect to my carbon/stocking rate/nitrates quota that might be set in near future?
If their is poor uptake which i can see happening due to the smaller numbers guys not wanting hassle What will happen to reminder in pot.

This has a few turns yet

Cavanjack · 17-07-2019 12:20pm

epfff wrote: »

Do dairy farmers want the 5% reduction?
Do i want the 5% reduction?
Will there be a knock on effect to my carbon/stocking rate/nitrates quota that might be set in near future?
If their is poor uptake which i can see happening due to the smaller numbers guys not wanting hassle What will happen to reminder in pot.

This has a few turns yet

Yeah it has a long way to go yet.
There was a good article in the indo yesterday with a breakdown of numbers. It was very interesting, 28,000 herds killed less than 10 cattle and only over 2000 herds killed more than 100. I presume this is the September to May period that is being spoken about and this was the prime cattle kill.
I would also presume that none of these 28,000 herds will buy into the scheme so that will leave 7 million unclaimed.
If you say that the 10-20 cattle men won’t buy into it either that’s an extra 14 million unclaimed. So a 1/5 of the money mightn’t be used up.

When You think about it the fund was to compensate farmers for the poor beef prices from the effects of brexit. Were the poor beef prices over the winter because of brexit? I wouldn’t think so. More so because we had too many finished cattle and factories took advantage. So really it’s subsiding Larry. Brexit will be the next mess.

wrangler · 17-07-2019 7:54pm

High bike wrote: »

Next thing will be give Larry and the feed lots a slice of the pie ffs

The dairy farmers on the National Livestock Commitee and the National Dairy Commitee itself will make sure that IFA looks after the dairy farmers

50HX · 19-07-2019 8:58pm

Just reading the rag there on this..

Is it a one off payment??

Do you have to commit to 5% nitrates reduction for 2 years then

pat73 · 20-07-2019 5:59pm

I Think the way they came up with way it was paid out was a load of s---.we buy in 150 calves a year and along with weanlings and cattle to finish we would have well over 200 at any one time.All these were down 200 a head last year and with the drought it cost us a fortune to feed them.All our cattle were killed before the sep deadline at a bigger cost as with no grass we had to increase our ration to finish them,and we are not entitled to nothing.Some joke.all we have now is 17 cattle and wont be buying any more.

tanko · 20-07-2019 6:42pm

50HX wrote: »

Just reading the rag there on this..

Is it a one off payment??

Do you have to commit to 5% nitrates reduction for 2 years then

Yeah, it's a once off payment (until next years Brexit crisis i suppose).
I don't know how the 5% nitrates reduction works.

kk.man · 20-07-2019 11:15pm

pat73 wrote: »

I Think the way they came up with way it was paid out was a load of s---.we buy in 150 calves a year and along with weanlings and cattle to finish we would have well over 200 at any one time.All these were down 200 a head last year and with the drought it cost us a fortune to feed them.All our cattle were killed before the sep deadline at a bigger cost as with no grass we had to increase our ration to finish them,and we are not entitled to nothing.Some joke.all we have now is 17 cattle and wont be buying any more.

I killed 28 cattle in time line for the payments (I thought killed more). I killed cattle in July and August due to the drought that would have been kept over till Sept. When you look at it in detail it really is a bailout for the winter finisher.

I'm only getting into cattle numbers and this 5% reduction is something I'm very suspious about.

amacca · 29-07-2019 10:58am

Heard the details of this was announced today and we can apply in third week of August......presume it applies to cattle sold through the mart also?

From the document it looks like its only animals presented for slaughter...does that mean you had to bring them to the factory and any sold through a mart are not eligible?

Base price · 29-07-2019 11:45am

amacca wrote: »

Heard the details of this was announced today and we can apply in third week of August......presume it applies to cattle sold through the mart also?

From the document it looks like its only animals presented for slaughter...does that mean you had to bring them to the factory and any sold through a mart are not eligible?

Only cattle that were slaughtered are eligible. Also dairy farmers with less than 40 cows who finished cattle are included.
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/final-details-of-100m-beef-fund-announced-482246

L1985 · 29-07-2019 11:54am

Anyone else find these schemes vaguely insulting?? 40 per suckler cow-ffs! I know money is money but I’d prefer to get paid what my animals are worth as opposed to propping up the factories!!

grassroot1 · 29-07-2019 1:29pm

I am not in Bord bia so I presume I cannot apply?

Sugarbowl · 29-07-2019 1:31pm

grassroot1 wrote: »

I am not in Bord bia so I presume I cannot apply?

I think Glas or BDGP scheme could get you in?

Attie Ross · 29-07-2019 2:44pm

L1985 wrote: »

Anyone else find these schemes vaguely insulting?? 40 per suckler cow-ffs! I know money is money but I’d prefer to get paid what my animals are worth as opposed to propping up the factories!!

Live old horse and you'll get grass.
Honey round your lips but none on your tongue.

grassroot1 · 29-07-2019 3:41pm

Sugarbowl wrote:

I think Glas or BDGP scheme could get you in?

Not in either missedthe education element of BDGP and was kicked out

White Clover · 29-07-2019 3:43pm

grassroot1 wrote: »

Not in either missedthe education element of BDGP and was kicked out

I think if you apply to join the bord bia quality assurance scheme you'll be ok.

tanko · 29-07-2019 3:58pm

I sold four cows in the mart which were killed shortly after.
Am I right in saying i get nothing and the lads that got them killed get €400?

kevthegaff · 29-07-2019 4:03pm

Dairy farmer here sold 30 cows to the factory in Dec January do I qualify?

wrangler · 29-07-2019 4:06pm

kevthegaff wrote: »

Dairy farmer here sold 30 cows to the factory in Dec January do I qualify?

Not if you have over 40 cows

High bike · 29-07-2019 4:18pm

They can stick it where the sun don't shine as far as I'm concerned, being dictated to enough already do the bdgp scheme, as someone else said pay us a fair price for our cattle

White Clover · 29-07-2019 4:22pm

tanko wrote: »

I sold four cows in the mart which were killed shortly after.
Am I right in saying i get nothing and the lads that got them killed get €400?

As far as I know it's only paid on prime cattle.

josephsoap · 29-07-2019 5:16pm

‘To qualify for payment, farmers must reduce the production of bovine livestock manure nitrogen per herd by 5%.

The target period for the reduction will be between 1 July 2020 and 30 June 2021.

The 5% reduction will be based on a reference period from 1 July 2018 to 30 June 2019.’

In plain English does the above mean if I calved 20 suckler cows in 2018, does this mean I have to get rid of one cow between July 2020 and 30 June 2021 in order to qualify for payment? Is there any other ways to reduce nitrogen manure ?

Base price · 29-07-2019 5:16pm

tanko wrote: »

I sold four cows in the mart which were killed shortly after.
Am I right in saying i get nothing and the lads that got them killed get €400?

If it was bought by a dealer then they don't qualify - "Animals controlled by factory or dealer/agent herds will not be eligible for payment"

Base price · 29-07-2019 5:18pm

White Clover wrote: »

As far as I know it's only paid on prime cattle.

I thought that as well but reading the article that I linked from the IFJ it says -
"The aid will be paid on all adult cattle slaughtered between 24 September 2018 and 12 May 2019, at a rate of €100/animal up to a maximum of 100 finished animals per herd"

wrangler · 29-07-2019 5:30pm

josephsoap wrote: »

‘To qualify for payment, farmers must reduce the production of bovine livestock manure nitrogen per herd by 5%.

The target period for the reduction will be between 1 July 2020 and 30 June 2021.

The 5% reduction will be based on a reference period from 1 July 2018 to 30 June 2019.’

In plain English does the above mean if I calved 20 suckler cows in 2018, does this mean I have to get rid of one cow between July 2020 and 30 June 2021 in order to qualify for payment? Is there any other ways to reduce nitrogen manure ?

You could reduce young cattle numbers either, sell them younger,
This leaflet gives the figures for the different animals nitrate total
https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/ruralenvironment/environment/nitrates/InfoLeafletNitrates220915.pdf

jntsnk · 30-07-2019 5:25pm

I am very hesitant in claiming this fund. First of all it’s only worth €2300 to me. Then taking the 5% reduction is it worth it. Will they base that year with the 5% as a reference year for going forward with carbon emissions or something. I just don’t trust those politicians in Ireland or the EU.

TPF2012 · 30-07-2019 5:57pm

jntsnk wrote:

I am very hesitant in claiming this fund. First of all itâ€™s only worth â‚¬2300 to me. Then taking the 5% reduction is it worth it. Will they base that year with the 5% as a reference year for going forward with carbon emissions or something. I just donâ€™t trust those politicians in Ireland or the EU.

What is the chances of a beef quota being introduced by shealth for sucklers? Something like this scheme with a reduction built in every year. Compulsory like the milk quota?

High bike · 30-07-2019 9:12pm

There is definitely a hidden agenda here I wouldn’t touch this scheme , just my tupponce worth every man for himself

50HX · 31-07-2019 1:09am

jntsnk wrote: »

I am very hesitant in claiming this fund. First of all it’s only worth €2300 to me. Then taking the 5% reduction is it worth it. Will they base that year with the 5% as a reference year for going forward with carbon emissions or something. I just don’t trust those politicians in Ireland or the EU.

Is the 5% reduction greater than your 2300 payment?

I hear you re reference year going forward but I can't see it based on a year of whether you signed up and I didn't iywim

kollegeknight · 31-07-2019 6:35am

About 32 animals here.

13 cows so worth €520 to me.

Will they make me drop to 12 cows or base mine on whole herd? Probably works out anyway with 5% being a cow and a calf

johnnyw20 · 31-07-2019 4:56pm

They could do with extending BEAM to this month. I reckon finishers lost more over the last month or two than they did last winter

Base price · 15-08-2019 12:55pm

Application for the scheme is next Monday the 19th online through Agfood - https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/schemes/beam-scheme-set-to-open-to-applications-38406212.html?fbclid=IwAR06u5rD6kzgJDHsfuYDjIUZ9i8tVPkOpe_n-6LkCbil0-uYg7WGDZgpMPg

jd06 · 15-08-2019 1:17pm

johnnyw20 wrote: »

They could do with extending BEAM to this month. I reckon finishers lost more over the last month or two than they did last winter

Why is the aid only paid between sept 18 and may 19, my cattle are always sold in July and August, does this mean I've no use applying??

jntsnk · 15-08-2019 2:18pm

jd06 wrote: »

Why is the aid only paid between sept 18 and may 19, my cattle are always sold in July and August, does this mean I've no use applying??

Yes won’t qualify. Prices did begin to get worse in Sept but like yourself the majority of my cattle were sold in the previous summer months. A winters finishers fund really!

memorystick · 15-08-2019 2:37pm

There's something suspicious about this 5%.

Sugarbowl · 15-08-2019 3:06pm

jntsnk wrote: »

Yes won’t qualify. Prices did begin to get worse in Sept but like yourself the majority of my cattle were sold in the previous summer months. A winters finishers fund really!

But when you sold them shouldn't make a difference? It's when they were slaughtered that matters.

jntsnk · 15-08-2019 3:20pm

Sugarbowl wrote: »

But when you sold them shouldn't make a difference? It's when they were slaughtered that matters.

Sold to factories/ Slaughtered

Dickie10 · 15-08-2019 3:26pm

i killed no cattle between november-march do i get ought?

jntsnk · 15-08-2019 4:03pm

memorystick wrote: »

There's something suspicious about this 5%.

Agree, it’s not a Brexit fund or price support fund when you have a stipulation of the 5% reduction . It should be called the carbon emissions reduction fund. Therefore going forward , if the farmer is at 95% , to comply, compared to the previous year, will they want him to go back up to 100%. I doubt it!

memorystick · 15-08-2019 5:19pm

jntsnk wrote: »

Agree, it’s not a Brexit fund or price support fund when you have a stipulation of the 5% reduction . It should be called the carbon emissions reduction fund. Therefore going forward , if the farmer is at 95% , to comply, compared to the previous year, will they want him to go back up to 100%. I doubt it!

Plus, it excludes the big farmers and only focuses on the small guy. It mightn't be as serious as lads think and maybe just a way of testing the water for future sways of annoying the farmer.

Sugarbowl · 15-08-2019 9:41pm

Does any know if there is clarity published around the 5% reduction? For a suckler farmer, is it on the cows calves or total animals held?

High bike · 15-08-2019 10:09pm

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Does any know if there is clarity published around the 5% reduction? For a suckler farmer, is it on the cows calves or total animals held?

my reading it’s a 5% reduction of nitrates so instead of reducing cow numbers you could cut weanlings or yearlings ,maybe someone else can clarify it better or u

memorystick · 16-08-2019 10:21pm

The lack of interest in this thread is surprising. I thought lads would be nervous about a 5% cut.

epfff · 16-08-2019 10:33pm

memorystick wrote: »

The lack of interest in this thread is surprising. I thought lads would be nervous about a 5% cut.

That my concern.

Im fearful a cut in numbers / nitrates / carbon may have a negative effect on next round of sfp.

Im also thinking the uptake may be pretty bad as many will not receive worthwhile payment.

If its undersubscribed what will happen the balance?

My â‚¬100m BEAM scheme

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