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My €100m BEAM scheme

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,090 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    High bike wrote: »
    8th or 9th Sept not sure which

    Still a week so
    If beef was a good trade you wouldn't be surprised at farmers reluctance for the 5% destock
    but at present prices it's hard to understand


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    wrangler wrote: »
    Still a week so
    If beef was a good trade you wouldn't be surprised at farmers reluctance for the 5% destock
    but at present prices it's hard to understand

    It shows the inherent optimism of farmers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭Bellview


    wrangler wrote: »
    Still a week so
    If beef was a good trade you wouldn't be surprised at farmers reluctance for the 5% destock
    but at present prices it's hard to understand


    i think some of the fear is that by applying for the scheme will this scheme get used by a desk jockey as another stick to beat farmers with on ie capping a payment/future scheme... unfortunately there is lots of distrust out there


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,809 ✭✭✭amacca


    Its worth hardly a **** to me money wise the way things worked out.

    But even if it was significant my family and I have ended up burned before by sneaky terms/conditions, rules/regulations and regard strings attached to schemes like this with deep suspicion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭High bike


    Not for me anyway I’m jumping through enough hoops already


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  • Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭Keep Sluicing


    I've applied, was planning reducing numbers anyway. Due to the restrictions on dates, its worth very little to me tho.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    Not for me either, I killed cattle 40 cattle a year, the way it it has worked out most were in July / August 2018 (late spring dry summer cattle were slow coming fit) and June / July 2019 so I am not getting any top up on these groups and the €40 a cow would be worth €800. I would have to cut back about 5 cattle in total for this money. If I can't turn more than €800 on 5 cattle then there is something seriously wrong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,090 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Bellview wrote: »
    i think some of the fear is that by applying for the scheme will this scheme get used by a desk jockey as another stick to beat farmers with on ie capping a payment/future scheme... unfortunately there is lots of distrust out there

    It's case by case any way, as long as those that fed a good few get it, they're needed around the ring now.
    I know two that are getting the max


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,387 ✭✭✭✭Green&Red


    P.S. A reduction of less than 4% shall incur a 100% penalty :(

    I presume that means you’ll lose the grant rather than be penalised?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭High bike


    Green&Red wrote: »
    I presume that means you’ll lose the grant rather than be penalised?
    id like to see that in writing


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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,233 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Do you have to be bord bia approved for this scheme?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭High bike


    whelan2 wrote: »
    Do you have to be bord bia approved for this scheme?
    i think Glas or the Beef Data scheme will get u in


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,183 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    whelan2 wrote: »
    Do you have to be bord bia approved for this scheme?
    No, if you already in a environmental scheme like GLAS you are covered, if not you have to commit to sign up to BB before the 1/12/19


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,090 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    High bike wrote: »
    id like to see that in writing

    Reading the small print and filling in forms is the best paying job on a drystock farm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26 OnDtown


    Have a question towards this and maybe someone can help my understanding?

    In my fathers case he will qualify for the full 10k payment.
    This will be subject to tax/PRSI/etc so he will come out with slightly less than half.
    Next year he will have to reduce stock numbers (we're estimating 10-15 head) in order to meet the nitrates requirement.
    This would mean he would be spending 10-15k less towards stocking the farm next year and this 10-15k would them be subjected to tax again, meaning he would actually be paying more back in tax than he received in the first place?
    Could this be correct? I find it hard to believe but please correct me where I'm mistaken.

    The above scnario assumes top rate of tax, no borrowings for stocking, etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭Neddyusa


    OnDtown wrote: »
    Have a question towards this and maybe someone can help my understanding?

    In my fathers case he will qualify for the full 10k payment.
    This will be subject to tax/PRSI/etc so he will come out with slightly less than half.
    Next year he will have to reduce stock numbers (we're estimating 10-15 head) in order to meet the nitrates requirement.
    This would mean he would be spending 10-15k less towards stocking the farm next year and this 10-15k would them be subjected to tax again, meaning he would actually be paying more back in tax than he received in the first place?
    Could this be correct? I find it hard to believe but please correct me where I'm mistaken.

    The above scnario assumes top rate of tax, no borrowings for stocking, etc.

    I believe your assumptions are correct - Except for the fact that if you buy €10-15k less cattle you'll also sell €12-18k less cattle next year.

    Also, if you're on the top rate of tax from beef finishing at the moment, you're in a very small cohort - what's the secret????!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,090 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    OnDtown wrote: »
    Have a question towards this and maybe someone can help my understanding?

    In my fathers case he will qualify for the full 10k payment.
    This will be subject to tax/PRSI/etc so he will come out with slightly less than half.
    Next year he will have to reduce stock numbers (we're estimating 10-15 head) in order to meet the nitrates requirement.
    This would mean he would be spending 10-15k less towards stocking the farm next year and this 10-15k would them be subjected to tax again, meaning he would actually be paying more back in tax than he received in the first place?
    Could this be correct? I find it hard to believe but please correct me where I'm mistaken.

    The above scnario assumes top rate of tax, no borrowings for stocking, etc.

    He's not really the farmer that's being targetted, if it's all taxed it means he's not one that has lost money on beef.
    Destocking isn't a problem if your accountant has the stock valued right in the first place, I've destocked twice in the last ten years without a hefty tax bill, more than that I don't know


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,090 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Neddyusa wrote: »
    I believe your assumptions are correct - Except for the fact that if you buy €10-15k less cattle you'll also sell €12-18k less cattle next year.

    Also, if you're on the top rate of tax from beef finishing at the moment, you're in a very small cohort - what's the secret????!

    Parttime farmer claiming all allowance on his salary/pension, country is full of them


  • Registered Users Posts: 26 OnDtown


    wrangler wrote: »
    He's not really the farmer that's being targetted, if it's all taxed it means he's not one that has lost money on beef.
    Destocking isn't a problem if your accountant has the stock valued right in the first place, I've destocked twice in the last ten years without a hefty tax bill, more than that I don't know


    Ironically I think he is exactly the farmer that was targetted by this scheme, he could have claimed 2-3 times the max amount if it wasn't capped at 100 cattle, and trust me he definately has lost alot of money on beef!


    But between his state/private pensions + BPS/ANC payments, this will push him into the higher tax bracket.
    Off the top of my head calculations estimate that he could be liable to 11k tax payments over 2 years, just to receive this 10k payment. It sounds nuts to be honest!


    I really not sure how the smart destocking works with the accountant and niether of us have much faith in the current guy either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭Neddyusa


    wrangler wrote: »
    He's not really the farmer that's being targetted, if it's all taxed it means he's not one that has lost money on beef.
    Destocking isn't a problem if your accountant has the stock valued right in the first place, I've destocked twice in the last ten years without a hefty tax bill, more than that I don't know

    Agree with Wrangler.
    Destocking not an issue if accountant was on the ball.
    You will be taxed on the BEAM support as income though.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,233 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Base price wrote: »
    No, if you already in a environmental scheme like GLAS you are covered, if not you have to commit to sign up to BB before the 1/12/19

    We are in the bdgp does that count?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,090 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    OnDtown wrote: »
    Ironically I think he is exactly the farmer that was targetted by this scheme, he could have claimed 2-3 times the max amount if it wasn't capped at 100 cattle, and trust me he definately has lost alot of money on beef!


    But between his state/private pensions + BPS/ANC payments, this will push him into the higher tax bracket.
    Off the top of my head calculations estimate that he could be liable to 11k tax payments over 2 years, just to receive this 10k payment. It sounds nuts to be honest!


    I really not sure how the smart destocking works with the accountant and niether of us have much faith in the current guy either.

    He can put his losses against the Beam Payment or else fire your accountant, there's no way if he has lost more than 10000 on his cattle that he's have to pay income tax on the beam payment.
    When I was involved in CPOs IN IFA the number of farmers with mistakes in their CGT was unreal so don't take it for granted that the accountant is right.
    A neighbour was telling me in the last few week that his tax bill was€4000 ....LAST YEAR OF ALL YEARS. I told him it was mad so he went back and told the accountant he was fired if he didn't change that so it's less than half that now ....like WTF


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,090 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    whelan2 wrote: »
    We are in the bdgp does that count?

    I think it does, presume you're referring about your fathers suckler herd, your little dairy herd just mightn't


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,233 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    wrangler wrote: »
    I think it does, presume you're referring about your fathers suckler herd, your little dairy herd just mightn't

    Ye it's for my dad. I didnt bother even looking into it as I thought he needed to be bord bia approved


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,090 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    whelan2 wrote: »
    Ye it's for my dad. I didnt bother even looking into it as I thought he needed to be bord bia approved

    Apply any way, I'll take the money if you don't want it :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Hurling Hereford


    wrangler wrote: »
    Doesn't do farmers any good either if we claim that farmers have lost 100m and then they only look for 50m.
    There might be time yet, when's the closing date

    Applications are being accepted from 19th August to Sunday, 8th September 2019 (midnight)


  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Hurling Hereford


    whelan2 wrote: »
    We are in the bdgp does that count?

    Yeah, the Beef Data & Genomics Programme is one of the Environmental schemes


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭Cavanjack


    wrangler wrote: »
    He can put his losses against the Beam Payment or else fire your accountant, there's no way if he has lost more than 10000 on his cattle that he's have to pay income tax on the beam payment.
    When I was involved in CPOs IN IFA the number of farmers with mistakes in their CGT was unreal so don't take it for granted that the accountant is right.
    A neighbour was telling me in the last few week that his tax bill was€4000 ....LAST YEAR OF ALL YEARS. I told him it was mad so he went back and told the accountant he was fired if he didn't change that so it's less than half that now ....like WTF

    Sure take a middling sfp anc glas pension (maybe) you wouldn’t be long hitting a tax bill of 4K.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,090 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Cavanjack wrote: »
    Sure take a middling sfp anc glas pension (maybe) you wouldn’t be long hitting a tax bill of 4K.

    parttime farmer , paying tax in work, 4000 tax on the farm, I should've clarified that


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  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Hurling Hereford


    wrangler wrote: »
    Parttime farmer claiming all allowance on his salary/pension, country is full of them

    And that's a great thing.


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