Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

ambro25 · 17-07-2019 10:20AM

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

That is a parody account.

Fair cop if it is, got me.

It doesn't really detract from my main point, however:

Nody wrote: »

You're implying they actually will stick around and attend sessions this time around rather than simply sit them out and collect the money? Either way at best they are doing it to try to annoy EU to force the crash out; most likely they are simply to stupid and childish to have a plan or think something but simply act as B actors and do what Farage tell them to do "to fight EU".

No, I'm inferring what Farage's (Bannon's, etc) plan is, when he tells these to do these things (turn backs, jeer, boo, etc).

Of course, in the grander scheme of things, this would just be one small aspect of a much wider plan.

The fact is, we're not seeing just-as-Eurosceptic (and in some cases, far harder right) MEPs of other countries misbehave half as much as the Brexit Party MEPs. To my mind, there has to be 'something' which explains why that is, of sufficient worth to these BP miscreants (in the end), for them to misbehave to the extent that they do.

Call me naive (...I know you all will

) but I just refuse to believe (for now, still) that MEPs of any party and proclivity can be so crassly ignorant and shameless, so consistently, in such a setting, for so little a return as ingratitation with their party leader and electorate.

Stop moaning ffs · 17-07-2019 10:34AM

Final hustings/debate between Johnson and Hunt tonight in London.
It’ll be more of the same but more.

BobbyBobberson · 17-07-2019 10:34AM

It got Fintan O'Toole too so you are among good company!

Professor Moriarty · 17-07-2019 10:43AM

ambro25 wrote: »

Fair cop if it is, got me.

It doesn't really detract from my main point, however:
No, I'm inferring what Farage's (Bannon's, etc) plan is, when he tells these to do these things (turn backs, jeer, boo, etc).

Of course, in the grander scheme of things, this would just be one small aspect of a much wider plan.

The fact is, we're not seeing just-as-Eurosceptic (and in some cases, far harder right) MEPs of other countries misbehave half as much as the Brexit Party MEPs. To my mind, there has to be 'something' which explains why that is, of sufficient worth to these BP miscreants (in the end), for them to misbehave to the extent that they do.

Call me naive (...I know you all will ) but I just refuse to believe (for now, still) that MEPs of any party and proclivity can be so crassly ignorant and shameless, so consistently, in such a setting, for so little a return as ingratitation with their party leader and electorate.

It's a combination of nationalistic arrogance and disdain for anything not British English.

kunst nugget · 17-07-2019 10:49AM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's a combination of nationalistic arrogance and disdain for anything not British English.

It's just football hooliganism in political form...

Professor Moriarty · 17-07-2019 10:52AM

kunst nugget wrote: »

It's just football hooliganism in political form...

Very well put.

Professor Moriarty · 17-07-2019 10:55AM

kunst nugget wrote: »

It's just football hooliganism in political form...

It just occurred to me. I wonder how Farage's gang and the ERG would react if Sinn Féin took their seats in the HoC and turned their backs for God Save The Queen and booed during the PM's maiden speech.

Evd-Burner · 17-07-2019 10:56AM

Professor Moriarty wrote:

It just occurred to me. I wonder how Farage's gang and the ERG would react if Sinn FÃ©in took their seats in the HoC and turned their backs while booing during the PM's maiden speech.

They would probably look to reintroduce capital punishment.

Professor Moriarty · 17-07-2019 10:58AM

Evd-Burner wrote: »

They would probably look to reintroduce capital punishment.

Francie Molloy hung, drawn and quartered outside the Tower of London? Hmmm. You know, the way things are going, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility. Some serious nationalistic forces are being stirred up.

Stop moaning ffs · 17-07-2019 10:59AM

Has anyone ever seen that massive statue of Oliver Cromwell outside Parliament?

branie2 · 17-07-2019 11:00AM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Has anyone ever seen that massive statue of Oliver Cromwell outside Parliament?

Best place for it

Timberrrrrrrr · 17-07-2019 11:24AM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Has anyone ever seen that massive statue of Oliver Cromwell outside Parliament?

The one thats been there for 120 years?

Stop moaning ffs · 17-07-2019 11:33AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The one thats been there for 120 years?

That long?
I was making a poorly formed bad joke about SF.

Doesn’t matter

VinLieger · 17-07-2019 11:56AM

Haven't been watching it recently but just saw headlines highlighting the Sterlings drop over the last month. Currently its at 1.10 against the euro and looks like it could drop to 1.09 very soon if the downward trend continues. If it did go below 1.10 it would be the second lowest point its been at vs the euro in 5 years, still a bit to go to equal the lowest of 1.08 from August 2017 but definitely possible.

Professor Moriarty · 17-07-2019 12:00PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Haven't been watching it recently but just saw headlines highlighting the Sterlings drop over the last month. Currently its at 1.10 against the euro and looks like it could drop to 1.09 very soon if the downward trend continues. If it did go below 1.10 it would be the second lowest point its been at vs the euro in 5 years, still a bit to go to equal the lowest of 1.08 from August 2017 but definitely possible.

Plus London house prices have seen their sharpest drop in 10 years. This is because of Brexit nervousness in the markets (sterling) and general public (housing). Imagine what will happen when they actually crash out.

Leroy42 · 17-07-2019 12:07PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Plus London house prices have seen their sharpest drop in 10 years. This is because of Brexit nervousness in the markets (sterling) and general public (housing). Imagine what will happen when they actually crash out.

People will just have to believe harder.

Professor Moriarty · 17-07-2019 12:09PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

People will just have to believe harder.

Very good!

20silkcut · 17-07-2019 12:33PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

It's just football hooliganism in political form...

In relation to being banished from Europe that actually worked back in the day. English clubs were banned from European competitions for 5 years 1985-90. After the heysel stadium carnage.
I’m sure Nigel would love that history to be repeated in the political sense.

Thing was they were clamoring to get back in by 1990.
That will happen politically too.

Would it be fair to say a lot of those football hooligans from the 70’s and 80’s are the older generation now shouting loudest for brexit ?

kunst nugget · 17-07-2019 12:38PM

20silkcut wrote: »

That actually worked back in the day English clubs were banned from European competitions for 5 years 1985-90. After the heysel stadium carnage.
I’m sure Nigel would love that history to be repeated in the political sense.

Thing was they were clamoring to get back in by 1990.
That will happen politically too.

By 1990, the rave scene was in full effect and all the hooligans were taking ecstasy so there wasn't as much impetus for creating carnage.

So the obvious answer is to start dosing the Brexit Party with yokes.

jem · 17-07-2019 12:39PM

20silkcut wrote: »

In relation to being banished from Europe that actually worked back in the day. English clubs were banned from European competitions for 5 years 1985-90. After the heysel stadium carnage.
I’m sure Nigel would love that history to be repeated in the political sense.

Thing was they were clamoring to get back in by 1990.
That will happen politically too.

They realy want to go back to 1750 when they still had their empire including America

Leroy42 · 17-07-2019 12:44PM

Farage on Sky News yesterday rolled out the claim that a GE was the only way to deliver Brexit. Of course he couched it on the basis that the overwhelming majority would be in favour of No Deal.

But IMO it gave a good insight into his thinking. He fully wants another ref, be that a ref or via a GE, because even he can see this is a omnishambles. He will be far better sitting in the EU as an MEP shouting from the sidelines than be the face of the disaster.

Tell me how · 17-07-2019 12:53PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Farage on Sky News yesterday rolled out the claim that a GE was the only way to deliver Brexit. Of course he couched it on the basis that the overwhelming majority would be in favour of No Deal.

But IMO it gave a good insight into his thinking. He fully wants another ref, be that a ref or via a GE, because even he can see this is a omnishambles. He will be far better sitting in the EU as an MEP shouting from the sidelines than be the face of the disaster.

I thought that 12 months ago when he first mooted a 2nd referendum on the Andrew Marr show.
Now, I'm not so sure.
I think he wants a GE or 2nd referndum while he still thinks there is a lead for the Brexit side so it can be reaffirmed before the evidence of a No Deal would change peoples minds.

That might sound counter-intuitive but what I mean is he might think a No Deal would lead to a rapid clamour to return whereas he wants out and to stay out and so pointing to a 2nd ref result in Leaves favour would make a return much less likely.

(Or maybe he's just sowing the seed so he can claim he said it should have been confirmed people wanted to leave)

MrMusician18 · 17-07-2019 12:54PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Plus London house prices have seen their sharpest drop in 10 years. This is because of Brexit nervousness in the markets (sterling) and general public (housing). Imagine what will happen when they actually crash out.

Do you have any evidence for that statement? Correlation doesn't imply causation btw.

ancapailldorcha · 17-07-2019 12:59PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Do you have any evidence for that statement? Correlation doesn't imply causation btw.

I'd a quick google and found this:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2019/jul/17/brexit-fears-pound-lows-uk-inflation-house-prices-business-live

Yeah, correlation doesn't equate to causation but until we actually get Brexit, the best we can do is to form conclusions based on estimates. As a London resident, I see no other reason for this slump. The link quotes the head of an estate agents firm:

“The Tory leadership battle is soon to come to a head. Whilst Boris’ proposals to cut stamp duty are attractive, the constant uncertainty and political instability is impacting property markets across the UK, with price growth slowing to just 1.2% this month.

This reduction is largely being driven by price falls in London which tends to feel the impact of political unrest more acutely than other regions of the UK. As we edge ever closer towards the October 31st deadline, and indeed the prospect of a potential no deal scenario, we can perhaps expect a further decline to London house prices over coming months, but thereafter more positive headlines.”

AbusesToilets · 17-07-2019 01:47PM

In a post Brexit reality, what would the possibility for the UK to reapply for membership down the road? Putting aside likely emotional resistance to the idea of both sides, would they be barred from rejoining?

Professor Moriarty · 17-07-2019 01:51PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

In a post Brexit reality, what would the possibility for the UK to reapply for membership down the road? Putting aside likely emotional resistance to the idea of both sides, would they be barred from rejoining?

I think the EU will have moved on. Feelings change after a break up, especially an acrimonious break up. But in theory I can't see why they couldn't reapply.

Seth Brundle · 17-07-2019 01:52PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

In a post Brexit reality, what would the possibility for the UK to reapply for membership down the road? Putting aside likely emotional resistance to the idea of both sides, would they be barred from rejoining?

I doubt that they would be barred but they would have to be fully committed members.
They will say good bye to Sterling for example.

BobbyBobberson · 17-07-2019 01:52PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

In a post Brexit reality, what would the possibility for the UK to reapply for membership down the road? Putting aside likely emotional resistance to the idea of both sides, would they be barred from rejoining?

That is some username! Can see no reason why they would be barred but they would not get the same deal as they have now.

MadYaker · 17-07-2019 01:59PM

They'd have to give up the sterling which they'd surely never do

Strazdas · 17-07-2019 02:00PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

In a post Brexit reality, what would the possibility for the UK to reapply for membership down the road? Putting aside likely emotional resistance to the idea of both sides, would they be barred from rejoining?

If the hard right / nutcases have departed the stage and more moderate people are running the country, anything is possible. One wonders though if the UK will still even exist at that stage.

Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

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