Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Professor Moriarty · 09-07-2019 09:31PM

Enzokk wrote: »

He was mentioning his Mayoral campaigns and the Brexit referendum, but actually in all of those he is not quite right. He may have been behind in the 2008 Mayoral Election at the start but he was ahead in most polls by the end of it. With Brexit it was the same, it was close from the start and I think a lot of people ignored the polls that told them Brexit would happen because no-one wanted to believe it.

My comment was that he sounded so much like Trump when he made the statement, it was like it was pulled from one of Trump's speeches which is frightening.

He's a bona fide populist. The right choice from a Tory perspective as he needs to be more populist than Trump's bestie Nigel.

FartyBlartFast · 09-07-2019 09:39PM

Enzokk wrote: »

FartyBlartFast wrote: »

Boris has been the strong, strong favourite since the moment May resigned?

He was mentioning his Mayoral campaigns and the Brexit referendum, but actually in all of those he is not quite right. He may have been behind in the 2008 Mayoral Election at the start but he was ahead in most polls by the end of it. With Brexit it was the same, it was close from the start and I think a lot of people ignored the polls that told them Brexit would happen because no-one wanted to believe it.

My comment was that he sounded so much like Trump when he made the statement, it was like it was pulled from one of Trump's speeches which is frightening.

Oh ok, I am not watching so only took your comment on face value (e.g. That nobody expected Boris to win this leadership race,hence my confusion!)

BluePlanet · 09-07-2019 09:44PM

Lackadaisical wrote: »

Anyway, all I'm saying is that we've a bunch of UK standards that were de facto adopted here and really should be phased out if the UK's no longer going to be in the EU as it would not make any sense to have non-EU standards applied within the EU, particularly with the on-going efforts to harmonise everything across the single market.

THIS

Long view -> we adopt to driving on the right.

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2019 09:47PM

BluePlanet wrote: »

THIS

Long view -> we adopt to driving on the right.

Phase it in, trucks and buses first.

tuxy · 09-07-2019 09:49PM

Lackadaisical · 09-07-2019 09:50PM

I suspect we're going to need a derogation on cars if there's nothing available to EU specs in right-hand-drive. The recent trade deal with Japan may ultimately help in that regard. Changing to left-hand-drive in Ireland is just not practical at this stage due to the extent of infrastructural rollout and you'd have issues with land borders.

Whatever about minor technical standards like plugs, sockets, bricks, roof tiles and so on, we're not going to be able to do much about cars and they are one product that is subject to a huge array of regulations.

BluePlanet · 09-07-2019 09:58PM

Interesting gambit by Hunt, appearing to stand up to the Trump bully:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/uk/jeremy-hunt-trump-intl-gbr/index.html

Lackadaisical · 09-07-2019 10:01PM

BluePlanet wrote: »

Interesting gambit by Hunt, appearing to stand up to the Trump bully:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/uk/jeremy-hunt-trump-intl-gbr/index.html

You also have to remember that the psychology behind Brexit i.e. nationalism would also apply here. Whatever about not wanting to be part of the EU, they absolutely do not want to end up as a puppet state being openly humiliated by the US president or anyone else for that matter.

I don't really know how that's going to play out with the average Daily Express reading 'Little Englander' type person, but I would imagine they'd be utterly furious about being told what to do by any outside entity.

Trump has made the UK look extremely weak and grovelling by calling the ambassador out like this and they really don't have much option other than to bend to his wishes as they are desperate for a trade deal, and he knows that.

It fairly neatly illustrates why mid-sized and small-sized European countries are only powerful as a block. Once they go it alone, they're very much small fish in a big pond, even the biggest of them.

09-07-2019 10:08PM

Lackadaisical wrote: »

You also have to remember that the psychology behind Brexit i.e. nationalism would also apply here.
.

Sometimes it's worth remembering that if you replace the nationality; British with Irish, the "opposition"; EU with British and the year; 2016 with 1916, it can be seen that history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
For those that do not understand the (Brexiteer) British attitude towards the EU, they may get an inkling if they think about it in this way.

09-07-2019 10:16PM

Looks like some car manufacturers have decided to remain in the UK after all.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48921455
BMW has given a boost to the UK car industry by confirming that the production of its new electric Mini will start in Cowley in November.
Deliveries of the brand's first fully electric car will start in March 2020.
Earlier this year, a BMW board member said the company would have to consider moving car production out of the UK if there was a no-deal Brexit.
But David George, head of Mini UK, told the BBC the UK was firmly in the company's plans going forward.

Lackadaisical · 09-07-2019 10:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Sometimes it's worth remembering that if you replace the nationality; British with Irish, the "opposition"; EU with British and the year; 2016 with 1916, it can be seen that history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
For those that do not understand the (Brexiteer) British attitude towards the EU, they may get an inkling if they think about it in this way.

The huge difference though is they're 100% welcome to leave anytime they wish. The EU simply can't wave a magic wand and solve Northern Ireland or any of the other consequences of Brexit just because the UK voted for it.

Also the comparison with the situation in 1916 or the US Revolution is somewhat ludicrous. All the EU has basically asked is the UK comes up with a smooth exit plan.

The UK responded to any territory leaving with military action. It's like trying to compare leaving the mafia and cancelling your mobile phone contract.

The EU hasn't driven tanks into stadiums, shelled or burnt down cities had the parliament jailed and executed. The UK did ALL of the above in the aftermath of our attempts to exit.

09-07-2019 10:17PM

Lackadaisical wrote: »

The huge difference though is they're 100% welcome to leave anytime they wish. The EU simply can't wave a magic wand and solve Northern Ireland or any of the other consequences of Brexit just because the UK voted for it.

Also the comparison with the situation in 1916 or the US Revolution is somewhat ludicrous. All the EU has basically asked is the UK comes up with a smooth exit plan.

The UK responded to any territory leaving with military action. It's like trying to compare leaving the mafia and cancelling your mobile phone contract.

Maybe so, but try telling that to the Brexiteers.

Professor Moriarty · 09-07-2019 10:17PM

BluePlanet wrote: »

Interesting gambit by Hunt, appearing to stand up to the Trump bully:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/uk/jeremy-hunt-trump-intl-gbr/index.html

Don't forget he's currently the Foreign Secretary so, as such, he has no choice. He took over after some chap called Johnson resigned.

Lackadaisical · 09-07-2019 10:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe so, but try telling that to the Brexiteers.

Well if they want to persist in their utter hyperbole like Ann Widdicombe comparing it to the liberation of slaves, they are just going to be seen as being utterly ridiculous. That speech was absolutely cringe-inducing and jaw-dropping in its utterly deluded lack of any kind of understanding of the historical context or seriousness of any of the things she was referencing, or the fact that they were all revolutions against the British state.

Professor Moriarty · 09-07-2019 10:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Looks like some car manufacturers have decided to remain in the UK after all.

And yet from The Guardian today:

"BMW has moved some of its engine production out of the UK because of Brexit uncertainty.

The carmaker said it had switched manufacturing of engines destined for its South Africa plant to Germany from its Hams Hall factory in the West Midlands. It made the decision to ensure that cars assembled in South Africa – which manufactures for the EU markets – comply with trade rules, avoiding steep tariffs.

“Hams Hall doesn’t build any South Africa products any more, which is of course bad for the UK because that specific engine is not being built here, is not providing labour any more,” said Oliver Zipse, BMW’s production chief, speaking at the launch of the new electric Mini in Oxford."

Frank Bullitt · 09-07-2019 10:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Looks like some car manufacturers have decided to remain in the UK after all.

Thats because the workers are robots.

The state-of-the art automated Cowley plant has more than 1,000 robots on the assembly line and produces a car about once a minute.

kunst nugget · 09-07-2019 10:30PM

Is this debate on Virgin One live? It's amazing how the audience are applauding Johnson's inanities.

09-07-2019 10:31PM

Gintonious wrote: »

Thats because the workers are robots.

A lot of investment that they refuse to write off more like it.

09-07-2019 10:34PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Is this debate on Virgin One live? It's amazing how the audience are applauding Johnson's inanities.

I refer you back to a post I made a few minutes ago, most people in Ireland simply don't understand the Brexiteer mindset.

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2019 10:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

A lot of investment that they refuse to write off more like it.

Kind of a setup where they can quietly (mostly robots after all) close the door and leave if the ship starts to sink?

Frank Bullitt · 09-07-2019 10:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

A lot of investment that they refuse to write off more like it.

Robots also don't have to earn money for their families to survive. :pac:

Water John · 09-07-2019 10:37PM

That's because one always tries to analyse analytically and logically, but Brexiteerism is illogical, so it makes no sense to an outsider.

09-07-2019 10:42PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Kind of a setup where they can quietly (mostly robots after all) close the door and leave if the ship starts to sink?

If as a business, you've recently spent many millions on updating a production facility, you're not going to abandon it (the shareholders will be furious), anyway, the UK market is plenty big enough to take all the vehicles produced there.

Their only export markets for the RHD models are Ireland, Cyprus & Malta in the EU and of course India many SE Asian/Australasian countries & southern African countries

dr.fuzzenstein · 09-07-2019 10:54PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I refer you back to a post I made a few minutes ago, most people in Ireland simply don't understand the Brexiteer mindset.

It's Underpants Economics.
Step 1: Brexit
Step 2: ?
Step 3: Profit!

It's delusions and idiocy, fueled by the inane rantings of populists and nationalists from a population that has been fed bullsh*t from their media for decades.
Add to that the Bulldog Spirit of Rule Britannia, We Will Fight Them On The Beaches and We Won't Let Johnny Foreigner Tell Us What To Do and you have a country that has never fitted in and never will do.
It is simply democracy in action, when the majority are misguided fools and idiots.
Quite simply, the Brits wear their history round their necks like a millstone and they would rather it drag them down, then to put it to one side and have a real good look at it instead and see if they can learn anything from it.
To many of them cannot accept they're not an empire anymore.

ancapailldorcha · 09-07-2019 11:05PM

Off topic posts deleted. We have a thread for general EU discussion. Please keep this one focused on Brexit.

ancapailldorcha · 09-07-2019 11:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Looks like some car manufacturers have decided to remain in the UK after all.

To clarify, are you defending Brexit on the basis that some manufacturers haven't pulled out yet?

Lackadaisical · 09-07-2019 11:09PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

To clarify, are you defending Brexit on the basis that some manufacturers haven't pulled out yet?

The BMW Mini production facility is also a rather poor example as it's a niche car that's branded as iconically British, so producing it in Germany or elsewhere might tarnish the brand. It's also a quirky car, sold at a premium price so it's got a lot of margin and is not really that fundamental to the BMW brand as it's a sub-brand.

If things didn't work out they could quite easily ditch it entirely.

I certainly wouldn't take Mini as a bellwether for the entire UK motor industry. The likes of Nissan has far tighter margins and much more aggressive competition to deal with.

It's not that all car production in the UK will stop, but the conditions for many companies are unstable and may become unfavourable.

fly_agaric · 09-07-2019 11:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe so, but try telling that to the Brexiteers.

I think I understand. The Brexiteers are cry-bullies.
The victim who is simultaneously the aggressor.

They dish out insulting hyperbole (slaves and masters, fighting for freedom, Nazis and Soviets) and scream blue murder when anyone is just somewhat rude back to them (e.g. Tusk and his "cherry picking" joke).

This myth making where "we're" really powerful and strong but yet also suffering unjust cruelties at the hands of an enemy is kind of disturbing.

blackcard · 09-07-2019 11:23PM

Brexit: Behind closed doors on Rte now is explosive stuff. I am surprised at the access given to cameras and how undiplomatic some of the EU officials were

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2019 11:29PM

blackcard wrote: »

Brexit: Behind closed doors on Rte now is explosive stuff. I am surprised at the access given to cameras and how undiplomatic some of the EU officials were

I'm finding it brilliant to see how human they all are. Very good stuff.

Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

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