Brian Cowen unwell

Agricola wrote: »

It's a bit rich making Brian Cowen out to be the big bogey man of the collapse of '08. For one thing, 9 out 10 Irish politicians in his shoes in the boom years would have conducted their business the very same. There's nothing especially reckless about him. Auction politics and sticking your head in the sand are staples of Irish life. Add that to a global economic calamity and it really wouldn't matter who was captain of the ship.

Not to mention all the ordinary joe and Josephine soaps living way beyond their means, taking out huge loans they couldn’t afford.

There were a hundred different reasons why the crash happened - laying it all at the feet of one man is at best woefully naive.

Cryptopagan wrote: »

What about the people who weren’t living beyond their means, but were denied or severely delayed access to vital health and educational resources, such as special needs assistants and treatment for mental illness ? Incompetence at government level has pretty ofound consequences, including fatal ones, for ordinary people.

The consequence of failure for Brian Cowen, widely denounced as maybe the worst leader Ireland has had, was a seat on the board of Topaz.

I’m sorry the guy is so ill, and if a recovery is possible I hope he makes it, but let’s not start the “we all partied” bulls***.

I feel nothing but sympathy for anyone who did live within their means and still suffered. The problem is that there is a lot who lived well beyond their means and they are now refusing to take responsibility for it, preferring to lay the blame at Brian Cowan’s feet or on the banks or developers etc.

Again no one single factor lead to the recession. It was a culmination of things.

Brian Cowan is far from the worst leader we’ve ever had. Just because he couldn’t wave a magic wand and make everything better doesn’t mean he didn’t try or didn’t care.

Cryptopagan wrote: »

We’ve had what, only 14 prime ministers I think. If he’s not the worst he’s very near the bottom.

Even so he doesn't deserve the pure bile being written about him now whilst he is seriously ill.

He was not a despot or dictator. He's a politician who faced an extremely difficult situation that was not entirely of his own making.

I'm not sure how anybody else would have handled it. IMF would have had to come in no matter what.

Cryptopagan wrote: »

He might have had some foresight as Minister for Finance maybe? Or given that he didn’t, accept his failures and resign rather than digging in? Maybe recognize how awful the optics of sidling onto the board of Topaz afterwards was, and not do that?

That's all fair criticism but my point is that it's no reason for the abuse he's gotten here and elsewhere in relation to his current health.

Danzy wrote: »

He has more culpability than others, given his role if Finance Minister for do many years and his part in the FF selling of policy making to the highest bidder and in many cases for kickbacks, he would be honest in that regard but he went along, to get along.

This is my last post in this thread - you can slag the man off all you like if you want but should all be ashamed of yourselves.

What you, Cryptopagan and many others fail to remember or understand is the economic crisis in 2007-2008 was a global crisis. Regardless of what Cowen, his predecessors or FF did in the past, we would have been fúcked regardless. The entire global economy collapsed like dominos due to a vast multitude of factors.

Laying the blame at one man's doorstep illustrates your naiviety and immaturity. But if thats how you feel then so be it.

But coming on here slagging off a dying man is just downright disgusting, no matter what way you look at it.

Over and out...

Lillyfae wrote: »

I'm pretty sure his poor health isn't an accident though. Sorry he's ill but he wasn't exactly clean living. Remember that interview he did where he was like a Fresher on the Friday morning of ragweek? Utter contempt for the citizens of Ireland the whole way through his "leadership"

Ah here. I was in a stressful position in work a few years ago as a middle manager and, like many others in my company, I was drinking a few most nights to deal with it for a while. That man was in the middle of the biggest ****storm in the history of the state and was powerless to stop it. Everywhere he looked the ground was crumbling beneath him and he was getting hammered publicly for it. I'm not saying he was right to go on radio in the state he did but the man is human and was under a sort of pressure that none of the rest of us will come close to understanding let alone experiencing. It had nothing to do with contempt for us.

I wonder if all that stress contributed to his current health problems as well as his lifestyle.

bob50 wrote: »

Some people forget he was handed the Poisend Chalice by Bertie Ahern after Bertie seen the writing on the wall.

Lets put this straight - Ahern didn't do a runner because he saw the **** was going to hit the fan - he'd still be Taoiseach today if he could have managed to ride out the storm. He did a runner because coalition partners John Gormley and Mary Harney were looking like they were going to pull the plug on his government in the wake of his performance at the Mahon tribunal and Enda would have become Taoiseach three-years earlier if they had. He only went because he had no choice.

Keyzer wrote: »

the economic crisis in 2007-2008 was a global crisis. Regardless of what Cowen, his predecessors or FF did in the past, we would have been fúcked regardless. The entire global economy collapsed like dominos due to a vast multitude of factors.

While I won't get into any personal criticism of Cowen - Lets not be over revisionistic. Because the Anglo Irish collapse was the largest individual bank collapse in the history of the world relative to the size of a country's economy. Yes most countries had banking issues, not least the UK with Northern Rock, Lloyds, HBOS etc - but a collapse of the enormous magnitude of Anglo wasn't simply inevitable!

Lillyfae wrote: »

I'm pretty sure his poor health isn't an accident though. Sorry he's ill but he wasn't exactly clean living. Remember that interview he did where he was like a Fresher on the Friday morning of ragweek? Utter contempt for the citizens of Ireland the whole way through his "leadership"

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Maybe on his deathbed he’ll tell someone what was actually discussed with Seanie Fitzpatrick during that round of golf in Druids Glen. ‘We didn’t talk business’ my arse! If you’re going to lie to the people then those same people can say what they like about you.......

Danzy wrote: »

Lots of supposition etc.

Mod

Lads, best ye dont post in this thread again.

I remember watching him at the inquiry about the collapse where he spoke about the bank guarantee night and policy leading up to the crash, changed my opinion on both the man and the decisions made quite a lot. There was a global collapse, several major banks had failed, the TARP had just failed to pass in the US and there was a massive run on banks in Ireland. Under that kind of dire situation I can understand the decision to guarantee banks, It was made clear the ECB that no bank was to be allowed fail in the Euro area so something had to be done.

Another thing i was unaware of was that a guarantee must include all bond holders at the same level, meaning if they guaranteed things like pension funds, charitable organizations etc they had to guarantee other bond holders at the same level regardless. I'd imagine people would have felt even worse if all their pension funds went up in smoke!. The man made mistakes but he was not imo, a dishonest gangster like Bertie and Charlie. He was new in the job when the biggest global economic crisis hit and had to take some very hard and unpopular decisions to bring stability. IMO history will judge the decisions made by both him and Brian Lenihan as largely correct and the reason why we have managed to recover to where we are now. I wish him well, overall a good man.