Brian Cowen unwell

pure.conya · 08-07-2019 10:50PM

i know how I'd feel if Brian Cowen was my dad or bro

this i will keep to myself in this thread as I've already been bold enough on here today

odyssey06 · 08-07-2019 10:52PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think it's in very bad taste to look back at the mistakes that a man made when he is now so very ill.

Very bad taste? I profoundly disagree with this and I dont see how this could be so.

We are still living with the consequences of his actions and inactions when in public office.

We would perhaps all be better off if public figures were more concerned about how they will be remembered.

Jupiter Mulligan · 08-07-2019 10:53PM

_Brian wrote: »

Always have to remind people when they go on about FF overspending etc.

You don't have to remind me - I lived through the corrupt reign of Bertie "the boom times are getttin' boomier" Ahern and his Cabinet of clowns.

Throwing around taxpayers' money like snuff at a wake. e-voting machines. Benchmarking pay increases that I didn't want, didn't need, didn't look for, but was given anyway. SSIA bribes.

And now my kids are paying the bills, while Bertie and his stooges get fat on their massive politicians' pensions.

d8491prj5boyvg · 08-07-2019 10:54PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Nobody should abuse a sick man, but there is absolutely no justification for avoiding an honest and critical analysis of a political leader in an established democracy.

I agree. But the two should be treated as separate. One should discuss cowens politics in a thread about politics. Criticise his actions to your hearts content in a place like that. But don't mix that debate with his personal issues. Don't use professional actions as a way to wish anything but the very best for the man's health.

take everything · 08-07-2019 10:56PM

Sorry to hear this.
Social media really brings out the worst in people.

08-07-2019 10:58PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think it's in very bad taste to look back at the mistakes that a man made when he is now so very ill. Brian Cowen is a person just like you and I, who is far from perfect.
I hope he recovers from this. A dreadful time for him and his family.

I hope he recovers too. Everyone who has met him seems to comment on what a nice, generous, pleasant man he is.

But democracy isn't put on hold when someone is ill. Discussions about our politics, and reflections on the recent past, are important. They are most relevant at a time like this. Rightly or wrongly, to have these kinds of discussions in two or three years will be fairly meaningless, the moment will have passed.

What's happening right now is a great tragedy for the Cowen family, and their close friends. But there, simultaneously, a national conversation happening around dinnertables and offices and, yes, internet forums, about our country and what we expect from our Government, and how they have or have not performed responsibly.

You can't say that conversation isn't important.

Abuse is a whole other topic, of course.

odyssey06 · 08-07-2019 10:59PM

Pierce Strong Rainbow wrote: »

The exact opposite of what good economic practice requires.

McCreevy setup the national pension reserve fund and the SSIAs were an attempt at setting a higher interest rate given we could no longer set our own and take money out of the economy for 5 years. I think his actions were more complicated than his soundbites ... and while not perfect, its clear he was sacked by Bertie when he wanted to balance the books.

bob50 · 08-07-2019 11:00PM

I wish and hope Brian Cowan can make a recovery in his health Its an awful situation for him and his family

The amount of vitriol and hatred for him on Twitter over the weekend was truly sickening. i myself was attacked for supporting Brian in his hour of need on twitter.

Some people forget he was handed the Poisend Chalice by Bertie Ahern after Bertie seen the writing on the wall. The very same people spouting hatred for him were the ones who benefitted greatly , when FF was in charge

One man cant bring a country down its was a lot of factors and yes Cowan was out his depth as taoiseach. But who else could have done any better at that time ?

odyssey06 · 08-07-2019 11:05PM

Pierce Strong Rainbow wrote: »

I agree. But the two should be treated as separate. One should discuss cowens politics in a thread about politics. Criticise his actions to your hearts content in a place like that. But don't mix that debate with his personal issues. Don't use professional actions as a way to wish anything but the very best for the man's health.

This is After Hours not a get well soon card to the family... what would be the point of that from a random internet forum.
He was a politician that is how he is known to the people here and informs their response. People know him as a public figure.

If people in his area know him through personal interaction as a man then naturally their response is different.

rireland · 08-07-2019 11:06PM

Time goes on. Even though I was only 16/17 at the time of the crash, I still remember seeing Bertie, Biffo, Lenihan on the tv a lot.

I came out of college in 2013, just 4/5 years after all of that. Now that is 6 years away. Leaving college I was closer to the crash than I am now to leaving college.

Not related to the thread at all but I think what the hell have I done in the last 6 years. I've just worked. New/better jobs but still working, coming home...not a homeowner or in a relationship. Life is just drifting along.

Hercule Poirot · 08-07-2019 11:09PM

I've always felt that Cowen was duped into the actions he took and was basically misled by those who didn't have the best interests of the country at heart

Even the leader of a country can't know everything and unfortunately it came to pass that huge, life altering (for other people) mistakes were made

The majority of my vitriol regarding the crash has always been directed at the bankers - yes some politicians were woefully naive and others were only in it for themselves but I've always believed Cowen was the former rather than the latter

I can't imagine what he and his family are going through

The_Kew_Tour · 08-07-2019 11:11PM

bob50 wrote: »

IBut who else could have done any better at that time ?

Why take the job then ?

sdanseo · 08-07-2019 11:11PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I hope he recovers too. Everyone who has met him seems to comment on what a nice, generous, pleasant man he is.

But democracy isn't put on hold when someone is ill. Discussions about our politics, and reflections on the recent past, are important. They are most relevant at a time like this. Rightly or wrongly, to have these kinds of discussions in two or three years will be fairly meaningless, the moment will have passed.

What's happening right now is a great tragedy for the Cowen family, and their close friends. But there, simultaneously, a national conversation happening around dinnertables and offices and, yes, internet forums, about our country and what we expect from our Government, and how they have or have not performed responsibly.

You can't say that conversation isn't important.

Abuse is a whole other topic, of course.

A wholly accurate and fair summary. I cursed the Cowen government and essentially everything it was doing for two years before it eventually collapsed. But I remember watching Brian Cowen's final speech and thinking Jasus, there's a man who bit off more that he could chew, did his level best with the support of senior colleagues who were also out of their depth, and through relatively little fault of his own made a right royal balls up of the whole lot.

I could do nothing but admire the man's character after watching this and it was beyond me to ever hold the shambles or the "lost decade" against him personally. It was caused by no one man or woman, but by twenty years of shambolic policy or lack thereof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Goa-H6_rUkY

odyssey06 · 08-07-2019 11:12PM

bob50 wrote: »

Some people forget he was handed the Poisend Chalice by Bertie Ahern after Bertie seen the writing on the wall. The very same people spouting hatred for him were the ones who benefitted greatly , when FF was in charge.
One man cant bring a country down its was a lot of factors and yes Cowan was out his depth as taoiseach. But who else could have done any better at that time ?

As finance minister he should have been able to read his own writing off that wall.

Yer Da sells Avon · 08-07-2019 11:13PM

Some people are incapable of 'taking a day off' from being angry about politics. Of course a former Taoiseach deserves criticism and analysis, but using their serious illness as an opportunity to needlessly express your hatred of them is frankly shite behaviour.

JohnnyFlash · 08-07-2019 11:21PM

Most politicians are fundamentally decent and hard-working people with an innate sense of civic duty. Ambitious people for sure, but that is what you look for when it comes to leadership. It's not even a particularly well paid job to be honest - there's far easier ways to make 100k in this country.

Meanwhile, some of the people who give out the most about politicians are the type of obnoxious malcontent that you wouldn't let mind your cats for the weekend. Moaning and gibbering while they slobber onto their keyboard, with no ability whatsoever to separate the struggles of running a country from the people who are trying very hard to do so. That goes for our very underrated public service as well.

I wish Brian well, and hope he's supping pints with the rest of us for many more years. I wouldn't agree with everything that happened under his term as Taoiseach, but I'm sure the mistakes were of the sort that all of us make. The ones that happen because we are flawed, and human.

08-07-2019 11:25PM

Of course our past and the ramifications of political decisions needs to be discussed. It just feels a bit off to me that we should be casting a critical eye over Brian Cowen's tenure when he is fighting for his life.

JupiterKid · 08-07-2019 11:26PM

Very sorry to hear about Brian Cowen and I wish him a speedy and hopefully a full recovery.

Yes, Cowen was completely out of his depth as Taoiseach as the country careered towards meltdown thanks to the reckless policies of Bertie and Co and he did not show gumption when it was needed but to use his illness as an opportunity to attack the man is frankly despicable.

Could any of those self-proclaimed “political experts” so willing to take a dig at the man have done a better job?

castletownman · 08-07-2019 11:28PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Very sorry to hear about Brian Cowen and I wish him a speedy and hopefully a full recovery.

Yes, Cowen was completely out of his depth as Taoiseach as the country careered towards meltdown thanks to the reckless policies of Bertie and Co and he did not show gumption when it was needed but to use his illness as an opportunity to attack the man is frankly despicable.

Could any of those self-proclaimed “political experts” so willing to take a dig at the man have done a better job?

Everyone is a political genius from the barstool, and under the safety of an online alias.

bob50 · 08-07-2019 11:29PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Why take the job then ?

There wasnt a vote for leader He Cowan was just given the job by the FF party He could hardly say no

JohnnyFlash · 08-07-2019 11:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course our past and the ramifications of political decisions needs to be discussed. It just feels a bit off to me that we should be casting a critical eye over Brian Cowen's tenure when he is fighting for his life.

+1

There's this idea that Ahern, Cowen, and Kenny ran off into the sunset with not a care in the world for the decisions they made. I'd say there's not one of them who doesn't reflect on what they might have done differently in certain situations if they had the gift of hindsight at the time. Three different sorts of men, but I wouldn't think for one second that any of them did things for personal gain, or out of some sort of malice.

You couldn't grant the same sort of leverage to some of the extraordinarily obnoxious people who frequent the basement of opinion that comes with being on sites such as here, the Journal, and Twitter these days.

08-07-2019 11:37PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

+1

There's this idea that Ahern, Cowen, and Kenny ran off into the sunset with not a care in the world for the decisions they made. I'd say there's not one of them who doesn't reflect on what they might have done differently in certain situations if they had the gift of hindsight at the time. Three different sorts of men, but I wouldn't think for one second that any of them did things for personal gain, or out of some sort of malice.

You couldn't grant the same sort of leverage to some of the extraordinarily obnoxious people who frequent the basement of opinion that comes with being on sites such as here, the Journal, and Twitter these days.

I'm not sure where I stand regarding Bertie but I do believe that Cowen and Kenny are decent men who genuinely wanted the best for us all. Sometimes we can project our own frustrations and anger on to others, so who better than the person who runs the country.

08-07-2019 11:38PM

Anyone that looks at sick man and takes any joy is a sociopath.

Baron Kurtz · 08-07-2019 11:41PM

What name would be deserving of the unwell title on the thread? Going on balance, Brian is off-limits. I'd say most people won't really care in a few days anyway, whoever it is.

Cyclical Apocalypse · 08-07-2019 11:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone that looks at sick man and takes any joy is a sociopath.

What if said sick individual was a murderer or rapist, would you still be a sociopath for wishing ill on them?

08-07-2019 11:44PM

Cyclical Apocalypse wrote:

What if said sick individual was a murderer or rapist, would you still be a sociopath for wishing ill on them?

Yes.

careless sherpa · 08-07-2019 11:48PM

At least he is in a private hospital and doesn't have to suffer the indignity of the public one.

Ursus Horribilis · 08-07-2019 11:49PM

If he was in a public hospital he'd get good care and attention too. Now's not the time to be making digs at him

Lewis_Benson · 09-07-2019 12:14AM

Hope he makes it through, wouldn't have agreed with his political decisions, but they were not his alone, and this isn't the platform for that discussion.

sligojoek · 09-07-2019 12:17AM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yes.

Their lives are usually never the same though. 66% of those who survive suffer some permanent neurological deficit.

In 40% of cases its fatal though.

Very few make a full recovery.

Agreed. My brother had a bleed 3 years ago at 46. He made a gd recovery but he's a shadow of his former self. He still gets dizzy spells and has had to scale back big time at his (self employed) work. He's allowed to drive but avoids it at all costs especially motorways as he finds it very hard to concentrate.

I'm no FF fan but I Hope BC comes out of it. I wouldn't wish what we went through on anybody

Brian Cowen unwell

Comments