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Willie Frazer has died

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    #392
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    janfebmar wrote: »

    Was it because he was an associate of the UVF ( what is an "associate" of the uvf) or because it was thought he once associated with a uvf member? Whatever the reason, the vast majority of ordinary citizens in N Ireland cannot get a licence for a handgun, and that is a good thing I think.




    He was an associate of and associated with UVF members. Where's your source saying that "Hand gun licences are refused to 99% of the population for much the same reason"


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    #393
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Odhinn wrote: »
    He was an associate of and associated with UVF members.
    Frazer was not a member of the UVF. He may have associated ( eg had a drink with) a uvf member at some stage in his life but if you use that criteria many people associated with paramilitaries in N Ireland.
    Still waiting on your condemnation of all the paramilitary groups. Frazer had not a paramilitary funeral. Why do you criticize victims of violence rather than those who planned and carried out bombings, shootings etc.


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    #394
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Frazer was not a member of the UVF. He may have associated ( eg had a drink with) a uvf member at some stage in his life but if you use that criteria many people associated with paramilitaries in N Ireland.
    ...............




    According to the RUC he associated with UVF members. He certainly had a drink with them as he ran a UVF bar. He also said no member of the UVF should ever have been locked up.


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    #395
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Neither did Frazer. His support group did highlight at least some of the ethnic cleansing (as many saw it) of protestants in border areas.

    It was a platform for his own paranoia and attention seeking. Willy was clearly lamenting the demise of the old status quo.


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    #396
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Frazer was not a member of the UVF. He may have associated ( eg had a drink with) a uvf member at some stage in his life but if you use that criteria many people associated with paramilitaries in N Ireland.
    Still waiting on your condemnation of all the paramilitary groups.

    You sound young J but say police don't say you have links to terrorism because you went for a pint with them.


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    #397
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    You sound young J but say police don't say you have links to terrorism because you went for a pint with them.

    Weren't two young men stabbed to death by the UVF in or around Willys bar? I don't think Willy himself ever touched on that subject. It was a well known hangout for UVF members.


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    #398
    citytillidie
    Registered Users Posts: 21,987 ✭✭✭✭citytillidie


    How is this still going?

    ******



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    #399
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    Weren't two young men stabbed to death by the UVF in or around Willys bar? .

    No. Happened somewhere else. Nothing to do with the bar Frazer once worked in; which may have had an unrelated uvf man drink there one. Nice try though.


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    #400
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    It was a platform for his own paranoia and attention seeking. Willy was clearly lamenting the demise of the old status quo.

    Hundreds of people murdered, thousands of attacks on people and property etc was not imagined, or anything to do with paranoia or attention seeking


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    #401
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    janfebmar wrote: »
    No.

    Yes they were. Stop lying.


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    #402
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Yes they were.

    Not according to what I read. And there was no suggestion Frazer was involved or connected in any way.


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    #403
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,882 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    citytillidie wrote: »
    How is this still going?

    Because somebody is trying desperately to do that most despicable and dishonest thing...reinvent somebody after they have died.

    They spend their whole time berating people because she imagines they are condoning or supporting paramilitaries while holding up one who thought that loyalist paramilitaries (who chose people solely because of what religion they were for brutal deaths) were right and should not have gone to jail.

    Could you write a more surreal plot?


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    #404
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Because somebody is trying desperately to do that most despicable and dishonest thing...reinvent somebody after they have died.

    Correct, you are right there Francis, some people are trying to turn a victims spokesperson in to something else. Frazer condemned the murder of innocent protestants and innocent Catholics. We are still waiting for you to condemn the paramilitaries on BOTH sides.


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    #405
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Correct, you are right there Francis, some people are trying to turn a victims spokesperson in to something else. Frazer condemned the murder of innocent protestants and innocent Catholics. We are still waiting for you to condemn the paramilitaries on BOTH sides.

    We are still waiting for you to provide a link as to why 99% of applicants for a handgun are refused.


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    #406
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Isn't it sad that not one unionist poster was brave enough to admit they actually admire this guy?


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    #407
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Isn't it sad that not one unionist poster was brave enough to admit they actually admire this guy?

    I do not think many unionists visit this site. And was he very admirable? He had his faults, like everyone else. But he had guts to speak out on behalf of victims of Republican violence. Simon Coveney our tanaiste said words praising him as a victims spokesperson.


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    #408
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    pablo128 wrote: »
    We are still waiting for you to provide a link as to why 99% of applicants for a handgun are refused.

    As said before , Firearms (Northern Ireland) order 2004. Read it for yourself. Do try harder.

    We are still waiting for you to condemn the paramilitaries on BOTH sides.


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    #409
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    janfebmar wrote: »
    No. Happened somewhere else. Nothing to do with the bar Frazer once worked in; which may have had an unrelated uvf man drink there one. Nice try though.


    A UVF gang were drinking there, where they targeted the two young lads killed.


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    #410
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,882 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Odhinn wrote: »
    A UVF gang were drinking there, where they targeted the two young lads killed.

    In order to defend Frazer you have to lie a great deal about his past. That is what is happening here.

    Dreadful exploitation again.


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    #411
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Odhinn wrote: »
    A UVF gang were drinking there, where they targeted the two young lads killed.

    So you would criticize a person who once worked in a pub , because other people who once visited the pub may have drunk in the pub and thought up a plan to " target two young lads "in the country?


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    #412
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I do not think many unionists visit this site. And was he very admirable? He had his faults, like everyone else. But he had guts to speak out on behalf of victims of Republican violence. Simon Coveney our tanaiste said words praising him as a victims spokesperson.

    Yes several unionists visit this site. Most actually denounce him as crazy.


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    #413
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Yes several unionists visit this site. Most actually denounce him as crazy.
    Your statistical sample is too small in order to draw any conclusions. Sure Frazer had his difficulties and was not perfect, but do not forget Republicans murdered 6 close members of his family, so maybe he was a bit crazy.. According to the media I think the leaders of all the unionist parties also attended his funeral.


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    #414
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,802 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Who? Was he a boxer too?


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    #415
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    janfebmar wrote: »
    So you would criticize a person who once worked in a pub , because other people who once visited the pub may have drunk in the pub and thought up a plan to " target two young lads "in the country?

    He RAN THE PLACE. He didn't just work there, it was his bar. A well known at the time watering hole for the UVF who went on to murder two young protestant lads who happened to stray into Willys bar, they said something about some UVF commander then got murdered for that by a couple of Willys regulars.


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    #416
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    No. Happened somewhere else. Nothing to do with the bar Frazer once worked in; which may have had an unrelated uvf man drink there one. Nice try though.

    Your outright lying now?

    Them 2 young lads got in a scrap,while playing pool afaik,in that bar for slagging a recently killed uvf man (killed by the lvf iirc)


    They were lured to an attack and given a pretty brutal death by all accounts....this isnt anything close to what your trying to paint it as


    Frazer stand up for innocent victims me hole,never once spoke up for them two young lads.......but theres no money to be made for speaking out for people killed in loyalist fueds it seems?



    Edit:near certain another young lad was blinded in that pub with a pool cue aswell,in a seperate incident


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    #417
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,882 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Your outright lying now?

    Them 2 young lads got in a scrap,while playing pool afaik,in that bar for slagging a recently killed uvf man (killed by the lvf iirc)


    They were lured to an attack and given a pretty brutal death by all accounts....this isnt anything close to what your trying to paint it as


    Frazer stand up for innocent victims me hole,never once spoke up for them two young lads.......but theres no money to be made for speaking out for people killed in loyalist fueds it seems?



    Edit:near certain another young lad was blinded in that pub with a pool cue aswell,in a seperate incident

    I think he actually claimed at one time that the killings were part of a plot against him.
    The father of one of the victims accused Frazer of withholding info on a radio programme too.


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    #418
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    janfebmar wrote: »
    So you would criticize a person who once worked in a pub , because other people who once visited the pub may have drunk in the pub and thought up a plan to " target two young lads "in the country?




    Who owned a pub. Who was a fellow traveller and associate of the UVF.


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    #419
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Your statistical sample is too small in order to draw any conclusions. Sure Frazer had his difficulties and was not perfect, but do not forget Republicans murdered 6 close members of his family, so maybe he was a bit crazy.. According to the media I think the leaders of all the unionist parties also attended his funeral.

    Jan you're not even a unionist so I don't think you should be speaking for them.


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    #420
    Scoundrel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭Scoundrel


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    He RAN THE PLACE. He didn't just work there, it was his bar. A well known at the time watering hole for the UVF who went on to murder two young protestant lads who happened to stray into Willys bar, they said something about some UVF commander then got murdered for that by a couple of Willys regulars.

    Yes and he would have been running that bar for the UVF


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    #421
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Scoundrel wrote: »
    Yes and he would have been running that bar for the UVF

    Link? No proof or suggestion on the internet I can see that he ran the bar for the UVF and no proof he knew anything about some customer from the bar killing 2 people out in the countryside. Plenty to show he stood up for victims and victims families.


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