Willie Frazer has died

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

OK so you do trust the PSNI. He is an associate of the UVF. Why have you been on this thread defending associates of terror groups?

He had associated with someone who was a member of the UVF. Frazer was never a member of the UVF, associate or otherwise.

FrancieBrady

Willie's rejections of allegations made against him now being used by jan. Hilarious.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Willie's rejections of allegations made against him now being used by jan. Hilarious.

What allegations against him? He was praised in recent weeks by everyone from his close friend the first minister of N Ireland, to our tanaiste Simon Coveney.

FrancieBrady

Just a few allegations made against Frazer. Of course he denied them all, and our poster here continues to quote those denials, but has no back up to disprove them.
They are allegations and must be treated as such. To now claim there are no allegations against is just more fantasy land stuff. Using his own dismissal of those allegations as proof that they were wrong is hilarious.

For a brief period after selling his haulage firm Frazer ran "The Spot", a nightclub in Tandragee, County Armagh, which closed down after two Ulster Protestant civilians who had been in the club, Andrew Robb and David McIlwaine, were stabbed to death in February 2000 by the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF), after one of them had allegedly made derogatory remarks about dead UVF Mid-Ulster Brigade leader Richard Jameson.[10] Frazer was confronted in an interview on BBC Radio Ulster about the murders by the father of one of the victims, Paul McIlwaine. During the Smithwick Tribunal (set up to investigate allegations of collusion in the 1989 Jonesborough ambush) it was alleged by a member of Garda Síochána that Frazer was a part of a loyalist paramilitary group called the Red Hand Commando. Frazer denied the allegations, saying they put his life in danger.

Frazer applied for a licence to hold a firearm for his personal protection and was turned down, a chief inspector said, in part because he was known to associate with loyalist paramilitaries.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

He had associated with someone who was a member of the UVF. Frazer was never a member of the UVF, associate or otherwise.

The court heard that a certificate had been refused because of police intelligence that Mr Frazer had associated with paramilitaries.

So you still don't trust the PSNI. In Northern Ireland it's a big thing to be denied a firearm licences.

For instance here we can see that gun ownership in Northern Ireland is prevalent.

From the article in question:

Several Sinn Fein members, including the Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness and the party leader Gerry Adams, are thought to hold firearms licences along with their minders.

So Frazer was denied a gun because of links to paramilitary groups and Gerry Adams wasn't. So we can confidently say that Frazer has closer paramilitary links than Adams.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

So you still don't trust the PSNI. In Northern Ireland it's a big thing to be denied a firearm licences.

For instance here we can see that gun ownership in Northern Ireland is prevalent.

From the article in question:



So Frazer was denied a gun because of links to paramilitary groups and Gerry Adams wasn't. So we can confidently say that Frazer has closer paramilitary links than Adams.

I guess that means more deflection incoming...duck!

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just a few allegations made against Frazer. Of course he denied them all, and our poster here continues to quote those denials, but has no back up to disprove them.
They are allegations and must be treated as such. To now claim there are no allegations against is just more fantasy land stuff. Using his own dismissal of those allegations as proof that they were wrong is hilarious.

I already gave the background as to why the Garda in the tribunal investigating Pira / Garda collusion suggested Frazer may have been a member of red hand commando, after Frazer questioned why garda documents had gone missing. Deflection by Gardai under investigation. Makes no difference , Garda pira collusion was proved to have taken place, while Fraser was not even investigated to be a member of red hand commando, because nobody though he was except Garda Corrigan.

steddyeddy

The funny thing about this is unionism has such a bad name that posters can't even bring themselves to call themselves unionist anymore. It's a dying ideology.

steddyeddy

Anyway I'm glad people like Gerry have firearms. He has no proven links to a paramilitary group, he only had a drink with them once and the great PSNI polic service even thought he was suitable for a firearm license.

FrancieBrady

The poster is totally wrong about the chronology of the evidence given at the Smithwick Tribunal.

In the course of his evidence Owen Corrigan mentioned the intelligence he had about the farm used by the Glenane Gang and mentioned who attended meeting there. It was in the course of giving this evidence that he mentioned Willie Frazer and the Red Hand Commando.

Willie Frazer THEN asked to address the tribunal to refute the allegation and to throw his own allegation into the ring.

It wasn't the other way around.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

Anyway I'm glad people like Gerry have firearms.

Are you sure he has? When he was attacked / shot at during the troubles one day, I do not recall mention of any firearm being used or shown in his defence.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

The funny thing about this is unionism has such a bad name that posters can't even bring themselves to call themselves unionist anymore. .

Unionism got a bad name? You think Republicanism on this island has better?
And as for people who call themselves unionists, they may not be on this thread but over the coming days I would say there will be no shortage of people in certain areas not afraid to call themselves unionists.

FrancieBrady

In Northern Ireland today, 61,144 people currently have firearms certificates. The PSNI couldn't indicate the number of guns those licences legally covered, but in 2006, when there were 58,000 licences, they covered more than 144,000 guns, one for every 12 people in the jurisdiction - double the equivalent in Scotland.

At Stormont, there is a special storeroom for guns deposited by Assembly members and visitors.

Several Sinn Fein members, including the Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness and the party leader Gerry Adams, are thought to hold firearms licences along with their minders.

'Very few people get gun licences in northern Ireland'...indeed.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

Unionism got a bad name? You think Republicanism on this island has better?
And as for people who call themselves unionists, they may not be on this thread but over the coming days I would say there will be no shortage of people in certain areas not afraid to call themselves unionists.

Ridiculous. Another unionist poster on here previously lamented the fact that unionists were always called the bad guys and regressive. He stated this was evidence the fact that unionists on Boards are afraid to admit to being unionist. They go on about unionist values and republicans being bad ect but being too afraid of being seen as a unionist to admit it.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

Are you sure he has? When he was attacked / shot at during the troubles one day, I do not recall mention of any firearm being used or shown in his defence.

It's not a matter of me being sure. It's the PSNI who are saying it.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's not a matter of me being sure. It's the PSNI who are saying it.

And Willie wasn't deemed fit to have one. Says it all really.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's not a matter of me being sure. It's the PSNI who are saying it.

Then if they said that provide a link.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

Then if they said that provide a link.

A link already exits J. Read the thread. Why wouldn't he have a firearm anyway? He was never found to be a member of a paramilitary group.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And Willie wasn't deemed fit to have one. Says it all really.

He had for years as far as is known, like many tens of thousands of people who served in the security services had.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

A link already exits J. Read the thread. Why wouldn't he have a firearm anyway? He was never found to be a member of a paramilitary group.

Your link only states a journalist who "thought" Adam's had a firearm. Do try harder.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

He had for years as far as is known, like many tens of thousands of people who served in the security services had.

J it's usually hard to make hard not tail of your posts but you're saying Willie Frazer might have had a gun because so did many of the security forces?

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

Your link only states a journalist who "thought" Adam's had a firearm.

Based on evidence J. Can you dispute he does?

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

Based on evidence J. Can you dispute he does?

The journalist thought Adam's had a gun licence. Evidence from when he was shot indicate he probably had not. I could'nt care less if he has or not, but if you state he has, you should provide a link to that effect.

FrancieBrady

Ha ha ha, presents no evidence Willie had a gun, blithely ignores again and again, the number of guns in NI.
Ignores report after report that Frazer had application turned down because of his association with loyalist paramilitaries.

Really has turned into a comedy.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

J it's usually hard to make hard not tail of your posts but you're saying Willie Frazer might have had a gun because so did many of the security forces?

"make hard not tail"? Do try harder with your grammar, steddyeddy.

Frazer served in the army for 9 years as far as I remember, and back then most if not all security force personnel were entitled to be armed off duty, as far as I know.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

The journalist thought Adam's had a gun licence. Evidence from when he was shot indicate he probably had not. I could'nt care less if he has or not, but if you state he has, you should provide a link to that effect.

I did J. Several members of SF have gun licenses. The PSNI didn't do anything to disagree with this either. They did however go out of their way to say that Frazer hadn't got one due to terrorist links.

realdanbreen

Oh come on guys let's stop this bickering and act like grown ups. I've an idea why not have a big bonfire on Friday 12th and we can burn flags and posters and get drunk and sing sectarian songs!

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

. Several members of SF have gun licenses.

Is that all? That is an astonishingly low number, given that there are something like 44,000 gun licences in N Ireland.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

"make hard not tail"? Do try harder with your grammar, steddyeddy.

Frazer served in the army for 9 years as far as I remember, and back then most if not all security force personnel were entitled to be armed off duty, as far as I know.

A former army member wasn't allowed to have a gun yet Gerry Adams apparent head of the IRA got one? Says it all really.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

A former army member wasn't allowed to have a gun yet Gerry Adams apparent head of the IRA got one? Says it all really.

Most former army members do not need one. There is no proof Gerry Adam's TD has one either.