Fine Gael TD sues Dublin Hotel after falling off swing

_Kaiser_ · 07-07-2019 5:53pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

I don't get why people on here outraged about Maria Bailey are praising PD at the same time.

If I didn't know any better I'd think he was working for FG because he's completely trying to take the media eye off fraudulent claims.

Not so. What he's saying is that fraudulent claims certainly exist and should be sent to AGS for investigation and prosecution if necessary, but that the "industry" are also exaggerating the scale of the problem to justify huge hikes in premiums, given that the actual numbers of such cases they forward is extremely small.

Given the way the company representatives (particularly the last fella) squirmed when numbers were drilled into, he seems to be right.

But the two issues are not mutually exclusive.

McMurphy · 07-07-2019 6:24pm

Suckit wrote: »

I'm confused... Now that it has been confirmed she was making a fraudulent claim, does that mean that everything she said on SOC was a lie?
Has humanity NOT been crossed?? :eek:

Will the Gardai become involved?

FrancieBrady · 07-07-2019 7:29pm

As Doherty pointed out, shouldn't somebody be calling in the Gardai here?

Cork Boy 53 · 07-07-2019 7:45pm

The opposition parties are putting the pressure on FG to release the report. This issue is not going away anytime soon.

Gael23 · 07-07-2019 7:57pm

This is a resigning or sacking matter now

McMurphy · 07-07-2019 8:09pm

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

The opposition parties are putting the pressure on FG to release the report. This issue is not going away anytime soon.

Also on this from leo.

Leo wrote:

"I met with David Kennedy. He pointed out that he sought the co-operation of those who were interviewed for the report on the basis that it wouldn't be published," he said. "And he gave them that commitment in writing so I don't feel I could possibly override that."

This smells like B.S to me, who gave Kennedy the authorisation to give anyone any assurance that the report would not be published?

There's no way on this earth he would have done so in his own bat, leo never once intended for the report to be seen by the public, he knew what went on was bad, he just didn't know how bad, and who exactly was embroiled in it.

Still, Kennedy's the man he's now chosen to hide behind.

I don't forsee many in FG having a quiet recess over the summer tbh, I suspect Madigan and Bailey are quite the pariahs right about now.

Auguste Comte · 07-07-2019 8:14pm

Gael23 wrote: »

This is a resigning or sacking matter now

In Leo's world attempts will be made get the whistleblower to resign and get the reporting journalist sacked.

boombang · 07-07-2019 8:34pm

I saw a mention on Twitter that MB was pissed in the CCTV footage. Is there any such mention of that in the Indo article? I know the article's free, but I can't be bothered creating a login.

WishUWereHere · 07-07-2019 8:37pm

Gael23 wrote: »

This is a resigning or sacking matter now

B

Resigning or sacking ~ of who? Varadkar, Bailey, Madigan? Or all three imho. Oh and don’t forget Farrell, he certainly ought to be given the bullet also.

Snow Garden · 07-07-2019 9:05pm

Bailey mentioned again on the 9 o'clock news. Leo due to comment on the report this week.

A nation holds it's breath

InTheShadows · 07-07-2019 9:12pm

Gael23 wrote: »

This is a resigning or sacking matter now

Leo had his chance and failed. The public won't be forgetting.

ChikiChiki · 07-07-2019 9:25pm

Nothing but strong action from Leo against members involved in making false claims will suffice. His political career and any hope of a FG majority in the next Govt is finished if the public hears mealy mouthed weasel words from him.

Interesting week ahead me thinks, perhaps further leaks from the report.

Shefwedfan · 07-07-2019 9:30pm

Probably has been mentioned, but why wouldFG bring in some to do a report and give them no guidelines

Like A. Tell them it will have to be public or not

So it’s BS if Leo now thinks he can blame someone they paid to come in and do a job

boombang · 07-07-2019 10:18pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Probably has been mentioned, but why wouldFG bring in some to do a report and give them no guidelines

Like A. Tell them it will have to be public or not

So it’s BS if Leo now thinks he can blame someone they paid to come in and do a job

The political ineptitude around this goes on and on. The cackhanded response is more revealing than than the initial grubby, greedy fraud. I previously had faith in Leo, but this has laid him bare.

Gael23 · 07-07-2019 10:29pm

Hearing rumors that her father has died

Suckit · 07-07-2019 10:37pm

Is there not an ethics test that Bailey can somehow be failed out of, and not allowed to stand again/sacked/booted out of the party?
They could/should have dealt with this so much better. I'm glad they didn't, it's nice to be able to see the mask slip (if that's the correct term in this instance) once in a while and really show us the crowd we have running the country.
It might give us all the kick in the backside we need to take down the individuals in future. More importantly, it might make other party's take note about how they can't ride it out as easily any more (unless everything goes back to normal after this

)
Their plan was/is obviously to ride it out until it blows over, which normally works.
If this is the type of crap they try to get away with publicly for €60k max (less than a monthly wage) I'm not sure if I ever want to see the rest. (I do, I really do..

)

Suckit · 07-07-2019 10:37pm

Gael23 wrote: »

Hearing rumors that her father has died

I hope that's not true.

ChikiChiki · 07-07-2019 10:51pm

He didn't look well recently upon being elected to the council so that would not be a surprise.

FrancieBrady · 07-07-2019 10:57pm

Gael23 wrote: »

Hearing rumors that her father has died

If that is true, I think we all should all hit pause here.

CollyFlower · 07-07-2019 11:16pm

Was that Maria Bailey on the left hand side of Pierce D in that Twitter video?

McMurphy · 08-07-2019 7:24am

Gael23 wrote: »

Hearing rumors that her father has died

Doubt that's true, nothing about it this morning anywhere in the media this morning, just stories across multiple sources as to how she's most likely not going to be facing any sanctions from the party, despite them concluding that she effectively indulged in a bit of the old insurance fraud.

Oh Leo, please let this be true.

mike_cork · 08-07-2019 8:04am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Doubt that's true, nothing about it this morning anywhere in the media this morning, just stories across multiple sources as to how she's most likely not going to be facing any sanctions from the party, despite them concluding that she effectively indulged in a bit of the old insurance fraud.

Oh Leo, please let this be true.

That will show her :rolleyes: What does a politican need to do in ireland to get fired or at least take the honourable option and resign ???
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/maria-bailey-may-lose-committee-chair-over-swing-gate-935367.html

08-07-2019 8:22am

She’s already paid a significant political price? Well it’s not from her monthly salary or expenses anyway. Nothing whatsoever has changed.

Some party members believe that regardless of the sanction Ms Bailey has already paid a significant political price for initiating legal action against the Dean Hotel in Dublin, which she withdrew in May.

08-07-2019 8:24am

Are quote tags not working?

is_that_so · 08-07-2019 8:26am

mike_cork wrote: »

That will show her :rolleyes: What does a politican need to do in ireland to get fired or at least take the honourable option and resign ???
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/maria-bailey-may-lose-committee-chair-over-swing-gate-935367.html

What makes it either of those? Seriously poor behaviour and judgement at best but ultimately no criminality. A sanction like this seems proportionate.

is_that_so · 08-07-2019 8:27am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Are quote tags not working?

You need to put in the words inside the tags! They are not shortcodes.

ohnonotgmail · 08-07-2019 8:35am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Are quote tags not working?

Yes they are. the tag is the word quote not just q.

gmisk · 08-07-2019 8:36am

is_that_so wrote: »

What makes it either of those? Seriously poor behaviour and judgement at best but ultimately no criminality. A sanction like this seems proportionate.

As per that article
It has been reported the investigation has found that Ms Bailey overstated her injuries after she fell from a swing in the Dublin hotel.
Are overstating injuries not criminal?

is_that_so · 08-07-2019 8:40am

gmisk wrote: »

As per that article
It has been reported the investigation has found that Ms Bailey overstated her injuries after she fell from a swing in the Dublin hotel.
Are overstating injuries not criminal?

That's according to their internal inquiry not the law. As I understand it you can be prosecuted for exaggerating a claim to your own insurance company. A judge would have had to determine whether she was or not.

08-07-2019 8:43am

Thanks guys, Monday morning brain.

GarIT · 08-07-2019 8:44am

is_that_so wrote: »

That's according to their internal inquiry not the law. As I understand it you can be prosecuted for exaggerating with your own insurance company. A judge would have had to determine whether she was or not.

She at least needs to be arrested interviewed and evidence gathered. There is a reasonable suspicion of a crime here, it should be investigated.

Plumbthedepths · 08-07-2019 8:45am

is_that_so wrote:

What makes it either of those? Seriously poor behaviour and judgement at best but ultimately no criminality. A sanction like this seems proportionate.

Attempted fraud is more than poor behaviour as is lying. You seem to wish to downplay MBs behaviour, why?

is_that_so · 08-07-2019 8:46am

GarIT wrote: »

She at least needs to be arrested interviewed and evidence gathered. There is a reasonable suspicion of a crime here, it should be investigated.

It was a civil case. She was making a claim and dropped it. What suspicion of a crime is there?

Plumbthedepths · 08-07-2019 8:47am

The Dean is still pursuing costs hopefully they will get them, this I believe will hurt Bailey more her alleged injuries.

gmisk · 08-07-2019 8:48am

is_that_so wrote: »

That's according to their internal inquiry not the law. As I understand it you can be prosecuted for exaggerating a claim to your own insurance company. A judge would have had to determine whether she was or not.

Im aware of that....but if its true it is criminal....that is my point...

is_that_so · 08-07-2019 8:49am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Attempted fraud is more than poor behaviour as is lying. You seem to wish to downplay MBs behaviour, why?

No I like facts, unpalatable as they are. I think she deserves anything she gets but there is no crime.

is_that_so · 08-07-2019 8:50am

gmisk wrote: »

Im aware of that....but if its true it is criminal....that is my point...

No, it's not actually criminal, offensive as it is.

Plumbthedepths · 08-07-2019 8:52am

is_that_so wrote:

No I like facts, unpalatable as they are. I think she deserves anything she gets but there is no crime.

Attempted fraud is a crime, that's a fact. Documents submitted to the court back this up.

mike_cork · 08-07-2019 8:52am

is_that_so wrote: »

What makes it either of those? Seriously poor behaviour and judgement at best but ultimately no criminality. A sanction like this seems proportionate.

Because (in theory) a politician is supposed to be held to a higher standard ? Because she's a member of a party who have made public statements (and even ran a campaign) on wanting to stop fraud?

She should be sacked ASAP.
(And i say all of the above as someone who votes FG,as they are the least bad option.)

is_that_so · 08-07-2019 8:54am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Attempted fraud is a crime, that's a fact. Documents submitted to the court back this up.

On your own policy yes.

gmisk · 08-07-2019 8:57am

is_that_so wrote: »

No I like facts, unpalatable as they are. I think she deserves anything she gets but there is no crime.

What makes you sure there hasnt been a crime?
The report suggest there is a chance there has been no?
As another post has said it would likely be attempted fraud.

is_that_so · 08-07-2019 8:58am

mike_cork wrote: »

Because (in theory) a politician is supposed to be held to a higher standard ? Because she's a member of a party who have made public statements (and even ran a campaign) on wanting to stop fraud?

She should be sacked ASAP.
(And i say all of the above as someone who votes FG,as they are the least bad option.)

There's a long long list of people who should no longer be in the Dail by standards we set, yet we vote for them. TDs can't be sacked, they stay until they resign. As the article you linked to suggested they have two options for her at present. I'd guess deselection in a GE will happen too.

Plumbthedepths · 08-07-2019 8:58am

is_that_so wrote:

On your own policy yes.

You might want to take a look at the 2001 Criminal Justice Act.

is_that_so · 08-07-2019 9:01am

gmisk wrote: »

What makes you sure there hasnt been a crime?
The report suggest there is a chance there has been no?

That's an internal report, which is not a good place to start a prosecution. I don't believe the legislation covers this kind of thing and I couldn't see a case having any hope of success.

is_that_so · 08-07-2019 9:04am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You might want to take a look at the 2001 Criminal Justice Act.

You might want to link to the part that you claim makes her suing an individual a crime, bearing in mind that it was him and not the insurance company she was seeking money from. Like all such claims the option is there to pay out off the insurance.

ohnonotgmail · 08-07-2019 9:05am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You might want to take a look at the 2001 Criminal Justice Act.

that has the same dificulty as trying to convict her for perjury. You have to prove dishonesty.

is_that_so · 08-07-2019 9:07am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that has the same dificulty as trying to convict her for perjury. You have to prove dishonesty.

Yeah pretty much my point here - the difficulty of achieving the level of proof to satisfy a conviction.

Plumbthedepths · 08-07-2019 9:09am

is_that_so wrote:

You might want to link to the part that you claim makes her suing an individual a crime, bearing in mind that it was him and not the insurance company she was seeking money from. Like all such claims the option is there to pay out off the insurance.

I can't link off my phone. Attempted fraud or fraud whether against an individual or entity is a crime. For action to be taken a report has to be made to the guards. Whilst one has not been made it still does not mean attempted fraud has not taken place. She wasn't attempting to sue an individual. She was attempting to fraudulently sue a company.

FrancieBrady · 08-07-2019 9:10am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that has the same dificulty as trying to convict her for perjury. You have to prove dishonesty.

Same answer as Pearse Doherty...it isn't for you, me or Leo to 'prove', that is a matter for the Gardai. If fraud is suspected it should be reported to the Gardai and let the chips fall where they may.

Plumbthedepths · 08-07-2019 9:11am

ohnonotgmail wrote:

that has the same dificulty as trying to convict her for perjury. You have to prove dishonesty.

Her own documents submitted to the court prove her dishonesty as does parts of her interview to SOR .

Fine Gael TD sues Dublin Hotel after falling off swing

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