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Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,071 ✭✭✭ Bluefoam


    Nermal wrote: »
    How about we let the consumer decide? Sometimes when I'm travelling I want a hotel, sometimes I want an AirBNB. Who are you to tell me I can't make that decision?

    I'm not telling you what to do. The law is... same way it tells you not to speed outside a school or rape someone... The people elect the government in order to legislate. Don't blame me coz your having a hissy fit...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,778 ✭✭✭✭ Adalynn Unsightly Chalk


    A look on airbnb for listings suggests that there is very little heed being paid to these ridiculous new rules as I knew would be the case.
    Bluefoam wrote: »
    If you are running short term lets from a property that is not your primary reidence, then you are competing with hotels, but you have chosen not to adhere to the standards set for hotekls, thus giving your business an advantage and possibly effecting the quality and safety for guests.
    .

    Aside from interfering in LLs business this rule (if people actually heed it) will have a big impact on people who stay in Airbnb. They offer a lot more options than hotels do and from what I can see among friends and family most now stay in Airbnb’s in Ireland and abroad rather than hotels as it’s much more practical. A lot of people are going to be put out it Airbnb’s are cracked down on.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Graham


    from what I can see among friends and family most now stay in Airbnb’s in Ireland and abroad rather than hotels as it’s much more practical.

    Hence the need for legislation in many cities.


  • Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭ Zenify


    Nermal wrote: »
    Bluefoam wrote: »
    If you are running short term lets from a property that is not your primary reidence, then you are competing with hotels, but you have chosen not to adhere to the standards set for hotekls, thus giving your business an advantage and possibly effecting the quality and safety for guests.

    How about we let the consumer decide? Sometimes when I'm travelling I want a hotel, sometimes I want an AirBNB. Who are you to tell me I can't make that decision?

    Many of the standards relate to things like fire safety. Consumers dont care about things like that, but when something goes wrong they say how were they allowed to run a business with such poor standards. Think about the clubs with no fire exits.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭ machalla


    Zenify wrote: »
    Many of the standards relate to things like fire safety. Consumers dont care about things like that, but when something goes wrong they say how were they allowed to run a business with such poor standards. Think about the clubs with no fire exits.

    Do fire safety standards for short term/guest lettings differ significantly from long term letting?

    Has there been new amendments added to increase the safety standards of short term lets as opposed to long term lets? I don't recall it being mentioned.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,687 ✭✭✭✭ Samuel T. Cogley


    In fairness in a long term let you get to know the building and escape routes better than if you're just in for a night or two. However I do see the fire regs argument as a bit of a non-runner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭ Pkiernan


    Does this arbitrary expansion of the RPZ zone automatically restrict Air BnB in those locales?

    Kilkenny pubs will lose a lot of money so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,328 ✭✭✭ Claw Hammer


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Does this arbitrary expansion of the RPZ zone automatically restrict Air BnB in those locales?

    Yes. It will be a long summer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,525 ✭✭✭✭ the_syco


    https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/no-grace-period-as-airbnb-hosts-who-flout-rules-from-today-face-prison-38268582.html
    New short-term letting regulations introduced today could result in those who flout the rules being fined €5,000 or jailed for six months.
    Have seen violent offenders get less, if any jail time compared to this.
    guideanna wrote: »
    I'm not running a business, i'm renting out my property, same as i've always done. They are changing the goalposts, not me!
    Well now, I doubt you're running a charity?


  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭ utmbuilder


    In fairness everyone has the complete Dublin list with GPS of airbnbs , it's going to get messy for hosts very messy and when you have assets at stake people are going to be leaned if not today soon.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    utmbuilder wrote: »
    In fairness everyone has the complete Dublin list with GPS of airbnbs , it's going to get messy for hosts very messy and when you have assets at stake people are going to be leaned if not today soon.

    Do you think that enforcement of the legislation involves DCC checking GPS locations and sending out fines? Seriously.

    Enforcement requires that 2 person teams from DCC physically have to be on site to “catch” guests in the property to prove a law has been broken. How does that work in an apartment complex? Do they stand in the hall all day or ask every single person entering the building who they are? DCC haven’t even got the personnel yet according to a newspaper article last week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,953 ✭✭✭✭ LuckyLloyd


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Do you think that enforcement of the legislation involves DCC checking GPS locations and sending out fines? Seriously.

    Enforcement requires that 2 person teams from DCC physically have to be on site to “catch” guests in the property to prove a law has been broken. How does that work in an apartment complex? Do they stand in the hall all day or ask every single person entering the building who they are? DCC haven’t even got the personnel yet according to a newspaper article last week.

    Those neighbouring constantly short term let Apartments will report very accurately. I’m sure that will help DCC in their work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Those neighbouring constantly short term let Apartments will report very accurately. I’m sure that will help DCC in their work.

    As has been posted many times, and links provided to interviews with person in charge of enforcement for DCC, reports by neighbors are considered hearsay and not enough to secure an enforcement order. Neighbors might report, but DCC staff still have to catch the guests in the property to prove a short let exists. Do you think they are going to have a time machine to take them there at the precise time guests are entering/leaving? Or do you think 2 DCC staff are going to sit there for hours? I guarantee all Hosts will be telling guests, do not answer the doorbell.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dublin-city-council-seeks-400-000-to-set-up-taskforce-to-crack-down-on-airbnbs-1.3708469?mode=amp


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,687 ✭✭✭✭ Samuel T. Cogley


    Personally if I was the various CoCos I'd just make a booking and show up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    Personally if I was the various CoCos I'd just make a booking and show up.

    Brilliant, DCC pays for an illegal act. Say the property is being put on Airbnb by a tenant, DCC will have paid the tenant, but trying to prosecute the property owner who may have no knowledge of it. They can’t prosecute the tenant, and the tenant will have made a tidy profit.

    Many Hosts will not let for less than 2 nights, DCC pays €600 to see if there is an illegal short term let. Anyone who uses Airbnb knows you pay the full amount in advance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,953 ✭✭✭✭ LuckyLloyd


    Dav010 wrote: »
    As has been posted many times, and links provided to interviews with person in charge of enforcement for DCC, reports by neighbors are considered hearsay and not enough to secure an enforcement order. Neighbors might report, but DCC staff still have to catch the guests in the property to prove a short let exists. Do you think they are going to have a time machine to take them there at the precise time guests are entering/leaving? Or do you think 2 DCC staff are going to sit there for hours? I guarantee all Hosts will be telling guests, do not answer the doorbell.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dublin-city-council-seeks-400-000-to-set-up-taskforce-to-crack-down-on-airbnbs-1.3708469%3fmode=amp

    If they *know* - to a high degree of accuracy - which property is the problem property this just becomes a matter of political will, legislative sanction and competence. The first two are there, you’re betting against the civil servants figuring it out on the third bit.

    Up to people to decide whether they roll the dice ultimately. There will be pressure to bring the first landmark case in within the next three months. Where there’s will and incentive there’s certainly a way.

    But everyone is entitled to take their chances. Maybe you’ll get lucky ;)


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Graham


    Mod Warning

    If you'd like to continue to discuss ways of circumventing the law, this is not the appropriate thread.

    There will be no additional on thread warnings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭ GalwayGaillimh


    Can CCTV from apartment complex be used to prove short term letting going on?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭ Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    If they *know* - to a high degree of accuracy - which property is the problem property this just becomes a matter of political will, legislative sanction and competence. The first two are there, you’re betting against the civil servants figuring it out on the third bit.

    Up to people to decide whether they roll the dice ultimately. There will be pressure to bring the first landmark case in within the next three months. Where there’s will and incentive there’s certainly a way.

    But everyone is entitled to take their chances. Maybe you’ll get lucky ;)

    Yeah, surely a few example cases would be deemed to be worth whatever the outlay is.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭ 4ensic15


    Can CCTV from apartment complex be used to prove short term letting going on?

    All tghe CCTV would show people with bags entering and leaving the entrace lobbies of apartment blocks. A prosecution case would require proof beyond reasonable doubt. Just because people are seen going into an apartment block does not mean short term letting is going on. The way child porn is prosecuted is that evidence is obtained of payment for porn and that IP address of the computer is at a particular location. Then the computer is seized. In a planning prosecution an enforcement notice has to be served on the landlord telling him to stop letting on short term. If he continues a prosecution must be brought. If the neighbours are prepared to swear that they constantly see people coing in an out with suitcases on a frequent basis, particularly if there is CCTV footage showing same and if there is evidence of advertising of a unit equivalent in specification at that address, the prosecution may well be made out.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭ TSQ


    Well, at least most of the ex-Airbnb units going back into short term rental will be of a high quality of decor and fit-out. Will be interesting to see how many actually come onto the domestic tenancy market. One landlord with over 20 units has expressed intention of moving to long trem letting (interviewed in Indo i think) while landlords with just one property seem to be selling up. Notice a lot of 3 and 6 month lettings offered on Daft recently ... ex Airbnb landlords?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭ Fan of Netflix


    How can we report the rogue landlords now breaking the law ? Gardai or DCC planning section? A quick glance at AirBnB shows many ignoring this new law. I'm going to make it my business to report as many of these criminals lowlifes as possible. They have profited at the expense of fellow citizens too long.

    And this time I hope 6 months in prison means 6 months.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    They have profited at the expense of fellow citizens too long.
    .

    Absolute rubbish, it is not, nor has it ever been the responsibility of property owners to provide accommodation for their fellow citizens. All property investors want profit, it is not philanthropy, without investors, there is no rental sector.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Graham


    TSQ wrote: »
    Notice a lot of 3 and 6 month lettings offered on Daft recently ... ex Airbnb landlords?

    I expect there to be quite a few of that type of rental appearing over the next few weeks.

    Traditionally aimed at the corporate letting market, it will be interesting to see if the demand is there to soak up the sudden additional capacity.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭ Fan of Netflix


    Dav010 wrote: »
    All property investors want is profit
    You have unwittingly hit the nail on the head there. No care about society or the harm being done to families and young people. All about the €€€. You would fit in well with the thugs evicting people during the famine.

    Thankfully the state has now made these activities illegal. I do hope dearly these rogue landlords see the inside of Mountjoy. Their vile greed is a stain on this great country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    You have unwittingly hit the nail on the head there. No care about society or the harm being done to families and young people. All about the €€€. You would fit in well with the thugs evicting people during the famine.

    Thankfully the state has now made these activities illegal. I do hope dearly these rogue landlords see the inside of Mountjoy. Their vile greed is a stain on this great country.

    Nothing unwitting about it, rental is all about profit. It would be extremely naive to think otherwise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,778 ✭✭✭✭ Adalynn Unsightly Chalk


    You have unwittingly hit the nail on the head there. No care about society or the harm being done to families and young people. All about the €€€. You would fit in well with the thugs evicting people during the famine.

    Thankfully the state has now made these activities illegal. I do hope dearly these rogue landlords see the inside of Mountjoy. Their vile greed is a stain on this great country.

    Why should they care? They are operating a business to make money not a charity to house people.

    Nonsense like “vile greed”’is just that, nonsense. They are running a business to better their lot same as any business owner does but for some unknown reason they are treated totally different by some people like yourself.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Graham


    Mod Note

    Hop down off the old soap-boxes there please folks before somebody slips and hurts themselves.

    If it's not clear from the above, dial back on the rabid/heated come-backs please.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,687 ✭✭✭✭ Samuel T. Cogley


    And this time I hope 6 months in prison means 6 months.


    Not a chance.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭ machalla


    6 months in prison and potentially €5,000 in fines for running a short term let property without planning permission.

    0 months in prison and €0 cost for non payment of rent over a sustained period.

    That seems to be quite a variation in treatment of delinquent tenants and delinquent property owners based on that.


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