Willie Frazer has died

_blaaz

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Well I know for a fact that at least one of his closer friends lurks on here. Why would you be surprised to find that some of his family and friends do?

It's not like there arent any Unionist/Loyalists from the North on here like.

A good family friend of mine was murdered in dublin few years ago


It had an entire thread of people gloating over his death,posters saying they hoped in died in pain etc


Yous just learn to have distain of most people who say mean things about them

mfceiling

Well he's dead now. One less person dividing 2 communities. I've more respect and admiration for the people on the front line who are trying to unite the communities rather than drive a wedge further in.
He really wasn't an intelligent person (complaining about an Italian flag flying at a school because he thought it was a tricolour!!).
He obviously suffered from the troubles but many others did and used their grief to bring a better future for the North. He didn't.

Hamsterchops

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Adams although he should admit he was in the IRA did quite a bit to get the peace process over the line, Frazer on the other hand was a waste of space who did nothing only spew hateful bile out of his mouth.

Adams = A vile man who carried many a bombers coffin and marched in many IRA parades. Never condemned the bombers either! Deeply embedded and steeped in Violent Irish Terrorism. For many years the enemy within (this State) as well as being a hate figure up North to those (outside Sinn Fein & the IRA).

Frazer = Loyalist & Orange to the core, but obviously damaged, maybe because his dad + other members of his family were murdered by the IRA?

Frazer was a bit 'touched' for whatever reason, but for people to come in here and make sneid remarks about him just as he's dies is very crass, and then to also "big up" & excuse Adams major part in all the death & mayhem......

Boxing.Fan

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Classlessness, moronic, and tasteless in the extreme :rolleyes:
What a Wally boxing fan, honestly what a stupid post.

It wasnt that bad.

Danzy

His father and Uncle and other were involved in a murder gang that were extreme in their hate and savagery, even by the standards of the time.

He himself was poisonous by the standards of his own times.

He is no loss but he will be a loss to someone.

God have mercy on his wife.

Gimme A Pound

Yamanoto wrote: »

Ignore them so, rather than fetishising such sorry goings on.

Ignore them? You could say that about absolutely anything. As said, far more forgiveness down here of loyalism, and that's an example. Criticism is not fetishisation.

janfebmar wrote: »

He was a victims campaigner and had 6 close relatives killed / murdered by Republicans. He highlighted the campaign of ethnic cleansing along the border, and many death threats were made against him. Do you think the Kingsmill atrocity was right, when 10 innocent protestants were murdered, was right for example?

The unionism lickspittles always argue in such a shyte way - straight to "do you think it was right?" when no such thing was indicated.

Deleted User wrote: »

And, if that's the case... While making it more complicated it still doesn't take away from his father being killed. I'm not saying Willie was a saint, but those calling for him to burn in hell are as bad as him.

No they are not "as bad as him" just for posting comments on a discussion forum ffs. I'm not gloating at his death - that's a crass, obnoxious thing to do, but he behaved appallingly, even with his reasons. He was horribly bigoted. The "he was no saint but" stuff - what's the downplaying for? The devil doesn't need an advocate.

careless sherpa

_blaaz wrote: »

Tbh its hard to condemn someone for killing a member of the glenane gang...a group thats less known publically tham shankil butchers...but implicated in something like 140 murders


That being said frazier had obvious mental health issues caused by grief inflicted to him and his family....its therapy he needed,not a platform to spread hatred

The glennane gang were actively considering going into a Catholic primary school and murdering children. Is a good job that some of its members were removed from the area

Danzy

careless sherpa wrote: »

The glennane gang were actively considering going into a Catholic primary school and murdering children. Is a good job that some of its members were removed from the area

Masscaring the school kids was only nixed by higher up in the security forces who saw it would lead to full scale civil war. The Glennane gang were still all for it.

JustAThought

Danzy wrote: »

Masscaring the school kids was only nixed by higher up in the security forces who saw it would lead to full scale civil war. The Glennane gang were still all for it.

What in the name of God is that about?

Outlaw Pete

Not the biggest fan of his but he was feckin great in Cheers tbf.

Gimme A Pound

Yamanoto wrote: »

The Loyalist rabble never purported to commit acts of violence in our name.

Yeah that I get, but it still doesn't explain the below:

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the southern media has always demanded far too little of unionism, unionism has never been expected to atone for anything

Equal criticism surely made more sense. Loyalists didn't claim to be acting in our name but they do consider us the enemy and they were just killing and mistreating our fellow fenians, which... unless you're Beserker or Janfebmar is... mmmm... kinda bad too.

Mad_maxx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Willie clearly had hatred issues.

But he at least had good reason. If one of our parents were killed would we turn the other cheek?

And those that are spouting bile against this man. Well, what's your excuse for acting like him?

You have to understand that Scottish calvinists live for conflict, the term " fighting Irish" was originally granted to the Scots Irish who emigrated to America long before us, those people live to argue, if we ever get a united Ireland, we will have to accept that 20% of the Dail will be made up of ulster folk like Willie frazier who cannot let anything slide

Strong willed people but inherently difficult, they see it as rigorousness

Tommy Kelly

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Well I know for a fact that at least one of his closer friends lurks on here. Why would you be surprised to find that some of his family and friends do?

It's not like there arent any Unionist/Loyalists from the North on here like.

like I couldn't care less. Let them lurk away like.

janfebmar

Danzy wrote: »

His father and Uncle and other were involved in a murder gang that were extreme in their hate and savagery, even by the standards of the time.
.

His father and uncle and the 4 other close family members that were murdered were never found guilty of any crimes, as far as I know, nor were they given paramilitary funerals.

Yamanoto

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Ignore them? You could say that about absolutely anything. As said, far more forgiveness down here of loyalism, and that's an example. Criticism is not fetishisation.

If you're hearing what Loyalists are saying on their various grubby fora about the deaths of some fairly obscure Republican individuals, then you're fetishising the bile. If you're sharing it among friends, then you're fetishising the bile. Excoriating them for doing it, but seeking it out all the same & delighting at just how base the other crowd show themselves up to be.

As for your perception that Loyalists aren't subject to the same levels of examination or criticism down South, once again, they weren't purporting to commit acts of violence in our name - THAT's why the spotlight shines brighter on Republican terrorism.

_blaaz

Yamanoto wrote: »

once again, they weren't purporting to commit acts of violence in our name - THAT's why the spotlight shines brighter on Republican terrorism.

Id be interested to know if you can identify any occasion where the ira claimed to fight in anyones name??


Pretty sure that phrase of them claiming to fight in our name is indo makey-uppy rubbish.......

Shine a spotlight on it all yous want.....just dont make stuff up

dashcamdanny

I for one enjoyed his comments and I am sad to hear of his demise .

The peace process needed people like Willie to give an example of how not to become. And even laugh at.

He was a man filled with hate and bigotry, and had and complete inability to forgive or move on. Although without a doubt he had reason.

Never again will we every get stories like this.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/willie-frazer-fury-over-gaa-shirt-in-eastenders-but-its-only-a-school-pe-top-30015790.html

armaghlad

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Yeah that I get, but it still doesn't explain the below:

Equal criticism surely made more sense. Loyalists didn't claim to be acting in our name but they do consider us the enemy and they were just killing and mistreating our fellow fenians, which... unless you're Beserker or Janfebmar is... mmmm... kinda bad too.

Not just your “fellow fenian”, they killed in Dublin and Monaghan. They also did the Miami Showband. They targeted bars, families and individuals. They went after innocent civilians. All intricately linked to a farmhouse in Glenanne. It’s said it’s the only UDR base never to be rebuilt after IRA attack such was the level of infiltration by the UVF

FTA69

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Adams = A vile man who carried many a bombers coffin and marched in many IRA parades. Never condemned the bombers either! Deeply embedded and steeped in Violent Irish Terrorism. For many years the enemy within (this State) as well as being a hate figure up North to those (outside Sinn Fein & the IRA).

Frazer = Loyalist & Orange to the core, but obviously damaged, maybe because his dad + other members of his family were murdered by the IRA?

Frazer was a bit 'touched' for whatever reason, but for people to come in here and make sneid remarks about him just as he's dies is very crass, and then to also "big up" & excuse Adams major part in all the death & mayhem......

Yeah so Adams is a bad bastard regardless of context; in no way having been influenced by his finding himself in a state predicated on violence and sectarianism that oppressed him in his community - all of that apparently being irrelevant.

But Willie Frazer, the mate of Loyalist paramilitaries, gets a pass because his combatant family were killed in a political conflict?

Sounds very fair analysis alright.

janfebmar

FTA69 wrote: »

But Willie Frazer, the mate of Loyalist paramilitaries, gets a pass because his combatant family were killed in a political ...

Frazer or his 6 close family members who were murdered were never found guilty of any crimes or never got any paramilitary funerals etc

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

His father and uncle and the 4 other close family members that were murdered were never found guilty of any crimes, as far as I know, nor were they given paramilitary funerals.

Ah really? You haven't mentioned that yet.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

I didn’t know much about him but reading his comments on the GAa and Ireland etc he seems to be a moderate version of Ruth Dudley Edwards or Eoghan Harris.

Surprised the independent didn’t give him a gig.

FTA69

janfebmar wrote: »

Frazer or his 6 close family members who were murdered were never found guilty of any crimes or never got any paramilitary funerals etc

Frazer was even described by the police as having too close links with Loyalist paramilitaries; he ran a nightclub in which two young men were stabbed to death by the UVF who regularly drank there. He attended the funeral of one of the main figures of the Glennane gang and described him as “a decent man” despite them being involved in the murder of 120 odd innocent people whom they attacked at random.

Please stop trying to portray him as a run of the mill lad who spoke out for all victims; you’re fooling absolutely nobody.

Galwayguy35

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Adams = A vile man who carried many a bombers coffin and marched in many IRA parades. Never condemned the bombers either! Deeply embedded and steeped in Violent Irish Terrorism. For many years the enemy within (this State) as well as being a hate figure up North to those (outside Sinn Fein & the IRA).

Frazer = Loyalist & Orange to the core, but obviously damaged, maybe because his dad + other members of his family were murdered by the IRA?

Frazer was a bit 'touched' for whatever reason, but for people to come in here and make sneid remarks about him just as he's dies is very crass, and then to also "big up" & excuse Adams major part in all the death & mayhem......

You conveniently ignored the bit in my post about Adams part in the peace process.

I've no doubt he was in the IRA and as I said before he should have admitted it years ago but whether you like it or not without him the peace process was doomed to failure.

John Hume knew this as well which is why he started talks with him.

ToddyDoody

RIP but I know he'll enjoy loyalist heaven.

janfebmar

FTA69 wrote: »

Frazer was even described by the police as having too close links with Loyalist paramilitaries;.

Link?

Odhinn

janfebmar wrote: »

Link?

Mr Frazer had been informed in a letter from the Firearms and Explosives Branch of the Northern Ireland Office on May 12 2003 that the Chief Constable had revoked his firearms certificate "as the applicant was unfit to be in possession of firearms and that he based his decision on a reliable intelligence report that you (Mr Frazer) associated with loyalist terrorist organisations."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/leader-of-love-march-not-fit-to-own-gun-police-26401301.html

JustAThought

JustAThought wrote: »

What in the name of God is that about?

British intelligence tried to get UVF to ‘shoot up a school’, documentary claims (The Irish Times, 20 Feb. 2019)

A former RUC officer has alleged that British intelligence tried to persuade the Ulster Volunteer Force to attack a Catholic primary school in Co Armagh in retaliation for the Kingsmill massacre, in a new documentary to be premiered in Belfast on Thursday.

In the feature length documentary, Unquiet Graves: The Story of the Glenanne Gang, ex-RUC officer John Weir claims that British military intelligence was behind a plot to attack the primary school at Belleeks in Co Armagh and to kill children and teachers.

Weir, a self-confessed member of the Glennane Gang, who was convicted of the 1977 murder of Catholic man William Strathearn, said the UVF was urged to carry out the attack in retaliation for the 1976 Kingsmill massacre in which the IRA singled out and killed 10 Protestant workmen.

“The plan that was decided on was to shoot up a school in Belleeks,” said Weir, who added that the targets would be “children and teachers”.

Long since released and now living in South Africa, Weir told the director of the film Seán Murray that the alleged plan by British military intelligence was to cause the situation in Northern Ireland to “spiral out of control”.

Mr Murray, who comes from a west Belfast republican family, said from his conversations with Weir in South Africa the alleged British military intelligence plot was to foment a “civil war”.

“From their vision such a war would be quite short; they thought they could have a quick, short and sharp process of cleansing out the IRA,” said Mr Murray.

In the end the UVF refused to carry out the attack, said Weir. Mr Murray said that Weir in granting the interview was engaging in a “cathartic process – I think he was trying to get as much information off his chest as possible”.


The film is based on Anne Cadwallader’s book, Lethal Allies which recounts how the Glennane Gang of loyalist paramilitaries, frequently working in collusion with RUC officers and Ulster Defence Regiment soldiers in the mid-Ulster area, is estimated to have killed more than 120 people, the vast majority of them Catholics, between 1972 and 1976.

Lethal Allies is largely based on investigations carried out by the now defunct Historical Enquiries Team, a division of the PSNI, and on declassified papers and official reports.

The gang’s victims included the 33 people killed in the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings, those killed in the 1975 gun and bomb attack on the Miami Showband, the 1976 killings of six members of the Reavey and O’Dowd families in south Armagh and the killings in August 1975 of Seán Farmer and 22-year-old Colm McCartney, a cousin of the late Nobel laureate Seamus Heaney...

Leaving aside Willie's association with those gentle souls in the Glennane Gang, can we remember his humour?

Like the time he lost the plot because he saw an alleged "GAA jersey"... on Eastenders!

Willie Frazer fury over 'GAA shirt' in Eastenders - but it's only a school PE top

Or the time in 2011 he, with great astuteness it must be said, noted that the rubble from the dismantled Pomeroy RUC barracks, which the IRA had attacked many times, was being used to make the surface of the local... GAA club better.

Victims ‘feel betrayed’ over rubble row

There were so many of these gems - a special mention to Willie posting photos of a letter he allegedly received from the IRA with a bullet in it, except for people online noted that there was no postal sorting stamp on the envelope and the handwriting looked suspiciously like Willie's own handwriting. hehe. By far Willie's funniest contribution to humanity was when he lost the plot with the alleged goings-on in little St Patrick's primary school in Donaghmore in Fermanagh. I'll let Wikipedia take over now:

In May 2012, after seeing the Italian flag being flown as part of a cultural event held in Donaghmore's St Patrick's Primary School and mistaking it for the Irish Tricolour, Frazer accused the school for 4-to-11-year-old children of being "the junior headquarters of SF/IRA youth", stating on Facebook that "I wounder do they also train the children in how to use weapons, for it seems they can do what they wont."(sic) Concerned for the safety of students and the school's reputation, teachers informed police of the accusations and photographs of the school posted by Frazer were later removed from Facebook.

After the Fermanagh incident, Jake O'Kane's hilarious "flegs" sketch couldn't but give Willie a star role (from 1:50 on):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8JqKxrloQQ

The Satanist