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Do you blame him or not, MP manhandles woman protester

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Danzy wrote: »
    John Prescott hit a protester a left hook that would rattle a Wall and he was lauded for it.

    He didn't and rightly didn't apologize.

    Being a protester dies not make one immune from response.

    Two jags punched a bloke


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    tritium wrote: »
    Yeah, the world really works like that. Security just frisk down the protesters who aren’t on the guest list and then tell them to go ahead...

    The victims of the Manchester bombing and the Bataclan theatre attack would probably have assumed the same thing tbh

    Somehow I think the security at an event attended by a bunch of British cabinet ministers including the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be higher than at an Ariana Grande concert.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    joe40 wrote: »
    He wasn't employed as security, he had no right to do it.

    Security also don't have the right to assault people.

    The MPs use of force was excessive. It doesn't matter if "it'd be different if the protester was a man", or any of the other "what if" arguments here.

    He used excessive force and he should be punished for it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,254 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Danzy wrote: »
    John Prescott hit a protester a left hook that would rattle a Wall and he was lauded for it.

    He didn't and rightly didn't apologize.

    Being a protester dies not make one immune from response.

    The 2 situations are not even comparable, and I'm sure you know it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    There’s something particularly pathetic about seeing Irish people sticking up for one of these Tory cretins.

    We should all think as a herd without reason. That's teach em.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,716 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Two jags punched a bloke

    So.

    Did you think that Fields should have punched her instead of being restrained in removing her?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,509 ✭✭✭tritium


    Somehow I think the security at an event attended by a bunch of British cabinet ministers including the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be higher than at an Ariana Grande concert.

    Yet clearly it failed here if the protest managed to get in....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,314 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Well, I do blame him for treating a citizen this way, he is supposed to be a representative of the people.
    But it was very well deserved for a trespasser, especially the particularly obnoxious waste of air kind that the green activists are.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,088 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    Security also don't have the right to assault people.

    The MPs use of force was excessive. It doesn't matter if "it'd be different if the protester was a man", or any of the other "what if" arguments here.

    He used excessive force and he should be punished for it.

    He didn’t. The force he used was in proportion to the perceived threat. No way would a court convict anyone for what we have seen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    tritium wrote: »
    Yet clearly it failed here if the protest managed to get in....

    Were any of them armed?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    With the prevailing culture today where the entire female species are unconditional angels who can never be wrong about anything and anyone who disagrees is a mysogonist meanie.

    I can see the likes of IS using female operatives more frequently, security will think twice in future about apprehending a female


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,211 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    All terrorists are not men. To suggest they are is nonsense.
    It is nothing to do with your ability to argue/discuss.


    I just feel sometimes i can't keep up with you. And you used my lack of intelligence against me. I wanted to show you it affects me. Not just in this thread but makes me think differently about myself.

    It also makes our interaction more heated which is not good. We should be friendly kinder. :)

    I am not saying 99% of men are terrorists I am saying 99% of terrorists are men.

    Oh come on don't be coy. Women and men are different.

    Even in Isis men and women play different roles.

    Its much much rarer for women to be terrorists.

    I know you all want to be metro 21st century men or women whatever you might be but is that really reality?

    Do you really think men and women are the same? I certainly don't. I think there are certain traditional truths.

    That is not a bad thing. I admire men a lot. They have honor. Stoicism. etc. Those are very good things.

    Women are different we have other things.


  • Posts: 3,505 [Deleted User]


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Puzzled, did she carry a sign saying 'I'm a climate activist'? How is anyone there supposed to know what she's up to? Terrorists don't all come wearing balaclavas.
    I'm pretty sure she was wearing a sash across her entire body, and as she was being pushed out was shouting "Peaceful protest".

    Bit late in the thread for my two cents, but I'd say it wasn't assault. I do however think it's very telling of his character that he was able to so readily put his hands on another person in aggression.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,716 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Cordell wrote: »
    Well, I do blame him for treating a citizen this way, he is supposed to be a representative of the people.
    But it was very well deserved for a trespasser, especially the particularly obnoxious waste of air kind that the green activists are.

    It doesn't matter his politics or hers, when your trespassing and charging high profile targets, at the least you can expect to be restrained.

    To the modern generation of " don't you know who I am" activists this would be an outrage.

    It was mild and controlled.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,254 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Strumms wrote: »
    He didn’t. The force he used was in proportion to the perceived threat. No way would a court convict anyone for what we have seen.

    Is it all women you're scared of, or just ones with handbags?


  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Boxing.Fan


    There’s something particularly pathetic about seeing Irish people sticking up for one of these Tory cretins.

    What does him being a Tory have to do with the incident?

    Or should we argue against him just because he is a Tory?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,211 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    With the prevailing culture today where the entire female species are unconditional angels who can never be wrong about anything and anyone who disagrees is a mysogonist meanie.


    Females are not a species :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,409 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Man this thread just goes to show how many snowflakes and sjw warriors there are these days. Come outside of your bubble once in a while.

    Talk about selective viewing to suit your agenda.

    She got removed with minimal force, no he did not "drag her by the throat.

    Everyone crying assault needs to get a life


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,211 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    What does him being a Tory have to do with the incident?

    Or should we argue against him just because he is a Tory?

    Yes we are Irish and proud!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,493 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I just feel sometimes i can't keep up with you. And you used my lack of intelligence against me. I wanted to show you it affects me. Not just in this thread but makes me think differently about myself.

    It also makes our interaction more heated which is not good. We should be friendly kinder. :)

    I am not saying 99% of men are terrorists I am saying 99% of terrorists are men.

    Oh come on don't be coy. Women and men are different.

    Even in Isis men and women play different roles.

    Its much much rarer for women to be terrorists.

    I know you all want to be metro 21st century men or women whatever you might be but is that really reality?

    Do you really think men and women are the same? I certainly don't. I think there are certain traditional truths.

    That is not a bad thing. I admire men a lot. They have honor. Stoicism. etc. Those are very good things.

    Women are different we have other things.

    This thread is weird.
    Many of the views you have expressed in this post would probably be also held by many of the people who you are arguing against in this instance. I have no interest debating them today.

    I responded to what you said. You said all men are terrorists, not most men as you are now saying.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭q85dw7osi4lebg


    He was dead right.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Strumms wrote: »
    He didn’t. The force he used was in proportion to the perceived threat. No way would a court convict anyone for what we have seen.

    Do you think this will end in court? It's not even relevant. Average age of tory voter went from 40 something under Cameron to 50 something. They are loosing voters and this will not help.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Sheer volume of the number of posters with these types of views in a short space of time is quite revealing. And worrying. Both for the suggestions that she should have been treated more harshly and the view (contrary to video evidence) that he did nothing wrong. Not to mention the implication that all climate activists should be treated the same way.

    You quoted me, for stating FACTUALLY, that she was not grabbed by the throat and that is worrying?? :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,349 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Danzy wrote: »
    John Prescott hit a protester a left hook that would rattle a Wall and he was lauded for it.

    He didn't and rightly didn't apologize.

    Being a protester dies not make one immune from response.

    John Prescott had a man violently had a man smash an egg on his face.

    Mark Field had a women walk past him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,322 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Lux23 wrote: »
    She has a right to protest. He had a right to have her removed, but he didn't need to drag her by the throat. He only has himself to blame.

    she does have the right to protest, however civilians have the right to be vigilant. What if she was armed? In the USA she'd be dead.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,211 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    This thread is weird.
    Many of the views you have expressed in this post would probably be also held by many of the people who you are arguing against in this instance. I have no interest debating them today.

    That is very interesting. Perhaps we would agree on many other things? I dont know.

    I actually HATE arguing though. So avoid those threads and just be silly on here :p

    I get upset easily. I prefer to talk generally. And i don't like to upset people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,254 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    twinytwo wrote: »
    Man this thread just goes to show how many snowflakes and sjw warriors there are these days. Come outside of your bubble once in a while.

    Talk about selective viewing to suit your agenda.

    She got removed with minimal force, no he did not "drag her by the throat.

    Everyone crying assault needs to get a life

    I think it's all the hardmen here that are afraid of a woman with a handbag, talking about how they'd take out the threat, or drop her, are the ones in the bubble.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,716 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Do you think this will end in court? It's not even relevant. Average age of tory voter went from 40 something under Cameron to 50 something. They are loosing voters and this will not help.

    It won't end in court, the moment The charge was decided on her Counsel would have informed her it would not be entertained, it is for PR purpose, that is understandable and for her cause the right course of action.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,211 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    she does have the right to protest, however civilians have the right to be vigilant. What if she was armed? In the USA she'd be dead.


    What if he was armed?

    Anyhow she was shouting peaceful protest and was wearing a sash that was the same of the visible group she was part of that was there legally.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,410 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    If she has a husband he should go and beat up Mark Fields!

    That would be premeditated assault, and her husband could do jail time for it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,211 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Hurrache wrote: »
    I think it's all the hardmen here that are afraid of a woman with a handbag, talking about how they'd take out the threat, or drop her, are the ones in the bubble.


    They are not hard. They are insecure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Danzy wrote: »
    It won't end in court, the moment The charge was decided on her Counsel would have informed her it would not be entertained, it is for PR purpose that us understandable.

    It doesn't matter. I presume he is in politics long enough to know he can only loose from encounter like this. She doesn't need to go to court, she got all attention she needed.

    Who do you think tory leadership are angry at this morning? The protestor or Rambo?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Yeah this is an important point, video is cut so we only see her moving up the room. Not any time before or after. What's the point in debating blame without the full context?

    Well that's normal in this type of social media campaigning - you cut the video so that it only demonstrates the POV you wish to put out.

    As regards her only being a harmless woman, doesn't cut the mustard in these days of political correctness. Equal treatment is well, equal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,211 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    NIMAN wrote: »
    That would be premeditated assault, and her husband could do jail time for it.
    :rolleyes:

    What is the world coming to? A guy assaults your wife and you can't punch him even once??
    This is ridic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,493 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    she does have the right to protest, however civilians have the right to be vigilant. What if she was armed? In the USA she'd be dead.

    Can you post any evidence of protesters in American being killed in similar circumstances?

    American security forces talk a good game but plenty of time protesters interrupt events.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,211 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    meeeeh wrote: »
    It doesn't matter. I presume he is in politics long enough to know he can only loose from encounter like this. She doesn't need to go to court, she got all attention she needed.

    Who do you think tory leadership are angry at this morning? The protestor or Rambo?


    He is more like Bambi gone wrong ...but you are right. He acted like a schoolchild.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,211 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Can you post any evidence of protesters in American being killed in similar circumstances?

    American security forces talk a good game but plenty of time protesters interrupt events.

    The USA takes freedom of speech very seriously.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,410 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    :rolleyes:

    What is the world coming to? A guy assaults your wife and you can't punch him even once??
    This is ridic.

    Unfortunately thats the law.

    If a guy assaults my wife, I mean proper assault and not like we seen in this video clip, then her/my first port of call should be the Gardai.

    If I go and get tooled up and batter the guy, then I could be done for assault.

    I'm with you, I know its not fair, but thats how the law works I'm afraid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Anyway of course it was rough handling. Grabbing people by the neck ain’t on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,509 ✭✭✭tritium


    Were any of them armed?

    Should we just take the chance that security has massively failed and been compromised but they managed to check for weapons successfully, just did everything else a bit ****?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,211 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Unfortunately thats the law.

    If a guy assaults my wife, I mean proper assault and not like we seen in this video clip, then her/my first port of call should be the Gardai.

    If I go and get tooled up and batter the guy, then I could be done for assault.

    I'm with it, I know its not fair, but thats how the law works I'm afraid.


    I understand what you are saying. And you are no doubt correct.

    But if a guy grabbed my neck in that manner I would expect my husband to DECK HIM! And I would expect the other guy to just not press charges and realize he was punched out by the better man!

    But the world has gone mad! We've gone too far!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,211 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    tritium wrote: »
    Should we just take the chance that security has massively failed and been compromised but they managed to check for weapons successfully, just did everything else a bit ****?


    The building i would imagine has metal detectors on the entrance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭Zenify


    she does have the right to protest, however civilians have the right to be vigilant. What if she was armed? In the USA she'd be dead.


    What if he was armed?

    Anyhow she was shouting peaceful protest and was wearing a sash that was the same of the visible group she was part of that was there legally.

    Wearing a wash saying Greenpeace makes her more of a threat in the eyes of most law enforcers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Potentially this could have been a terrorist attack ! Cause and effect !

    If it was a lad with a bomb strapped on Fields would have jumped under the table.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,211 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Zenify wrote: »
    Wearing a wash saying Greenpeace makes her more of a threat in the eyes of most law enforcers.


    There are metal detectors on the entrance to the building you know.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    tritium wrote: »
    Should we just take the chance that security has massively failed and been compromised but they managed to check for weapons successfully, just did everything else a bit ****?

    I’m sure there were metal detectors and X rays on the way in, same as going through airport security. I’m not sure how the protesters got to be there, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they bought tickets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,410 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I understand what you are saying. And you are no doubt correct.

    But if a guy grabbed my neck in that manner I would expect my husband to DECK HIM! And I would expect the other guy to just not press charges and realize he was punched out by the better man!

    But the world has gone mad! We've gone too far!

    So we agree, but why are you saying this woman was assaulted then?

    You seem to be arguing against yourself?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,509 ✭✭✭tritium


    The building i would imagine has metal detectors on the entrance.

    You’d imaging or you’d know?

    Would metal detectors pick up a bottle of acid for instance?

    Which entrance did all the protestors use?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    Fascinating range of options here.
    I'd reckon if this was 10 years ago, it wouldn't have even made the news.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    They didn't handle it though did they? They ignored it and hoped that somebody else would handle it. The spatial awareness here is dismal.

    Because there was obviously nothing to handle. Look at how everyone else just shepherds the protestors calmly and there is no trouble.


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