Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Boris/Conservatives and largely the UK itself, doesn’t really care about NI. Which makes the DUP’s fascination with sucking up to the UK even more desperate.

That's down to ethnic identity politics in northern Ireland. Logic, economic and pragmatics have absolutely nothing to do with it. It's also impossible to use logic to argue with it as it's pure tribalism.

The tribe the DUP consider themselves loyal to is jumping off a cliff, so they're going to enthusiastically do exactly the same. Things like the fate of the Northern Ireland economy don't seem to factor into that. They simply believe in the UK and the rest is irrelevant. They've also created a notion they the EU as a proxy for the a monster they imagine to be south of the border. So that's hardened the line even further.

It's the same with the Brexiteers. The whole Brexit mantra appeals to tribalism and emotional nationalism. The remain argument that tried to counter it is based on appealing logic and pragmatism. It never reached them as they don't care about any of that. To them this is about identity and abstract stuff. The details don't matter a damn to them and it's being driven by various political and media actors who know exactly how to keep pushing all those buttons.

My view of it is the UK including NI will march off that cliff and there's very little any of the rest of us can do about it. They're going to face huge economic and stability costs but they aren't willing to accept that's reality.

I honestly think it's time to just prepare for the mess as I don't think we are going to be able to prevent it.

It's awful, especially in Northern Ireland that this will likely create serious instability but the political system up there isn't willing to deal with that before it happens. There are consequences to voting for hard-line parties and those are a risk of severe instability and intransigence. I feel very annoyed that so much effort was put into the peace process by so many people, yet here we are at a massive crisis and the politicians in the North and in the UK are wringing their hands and marching straight into chaos, against the will of the majority in NI who voted against Brexit. However, this is what happens when a population keeps voting down tribal lines. It may sound harsh, but it's a democracy and you get what you vote for in terms of representatives and the centrist parties in NI, the UUP and SDLP, were sidelined, despite their enormous contributions towards the peace process back in the 1990s.

The DUP are far more extreme in their social and political views than present day SF but they're both parties that only appeal to their respective tribes. The cross community thing evaporated and look where we are. They've thrown their toys out of the pram and the apron strings they're still swinging from are firmly attached to Nanny in London and she's gone on the gin, gone completely mad and is singing songs about empire and behaving like a football hooligan.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The Ulster Farmers Union are constantly telling anyone who will listen that No Deal would be a disaster.

Again though the Ulster Farmers Union are a bunch of logical, pragmatic people who are arguing based on facts, figures and science to a bunch of people who just want to wave flags and charge forward towards an imaginary destiny. They're not listening and they won't listen.

The farmers need to start protesting to get noticed.