Open racism is ok if it's for the progressive cause.

kildare lad · 08-06-2019 9:21am

OMM 0000 wrote: »

When are you going to start living today instead of in the past?

You have admitted you know women are doing better than men, yet you keep clinging to the past so you can claim women are victims.

At least you have the honesty to admit feminism is not about equality but rather about getting a better deal for women.

Why would they do that, some people like being victims, if they've got a bad break in life they'll blame it on men because the " patriarchy still exists . All these feminists that give out on interviews about men earning more money , well maybe if they went to college and get a degree in finance or business instead of gender studies, social studies or liberal arts degrees they'd earn more money too. I'll give you an example , my friends a senior commercial manager with a large construction firm . He went to college for five years studying construction management and then did his masters, his missus is a hairdresser , who do you think makes more money .

I'll give you a clue, its not the hairdresser. No one forced her to become a hairdresser, she likes her job but it pays no where near what he earns. Is that the patriarchys fault or just her decision to become a hairdresser.

Zorya · 08-06-2019 9:22am

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I can still see that woman are dramatically underrepresented at the highest levels of power- politics, the judiciary, business, medicine.

And I’m not okay with that.

I am. Politics is a filthy game where you have to schmooze all and sundry and give over every moment of your personal life to the public who elected you. Being a judge is boring and sedentary and high stress, all qualities that could give you an early heart attack or a drink problem. Medicine requires very long hours to advance in any field, to professorship level or surgeon, some might say it requires a certain element of psychopathy in the personality. Business success at the higher ends requires 80+ hour working weeks, more schmoozing, networking, grafting beyond human comfort and only the very few will succeed at the highest levels. Most women and indeed most men don't want to sacrifice their life//work balance for something like that.

But the main thing is that here women CAN do any of those things...if they want. My college room mate is a well-known female professor in a medical area, in fact a good few of my old female college pals are professors now, one of my very close female relations is a senior engineer in the public sector, one of my gal pals just freely ran and did respectably in the local elections, any female I know who wanted to succeed at business has done a fine job of it. None of them experienced barriers to those ways of life - just show up and do the work and it's yours for the taking. But many of the rest of us are simply not interested in that kind of life, not because of intellectual incapacity or inequality, but just because it's not our thing.

The women fighting against compulsory hijab via WhiteWednesdays, or the hundreds of thousands of women subjec to FGM, or child mariage, or the rates of female feticide etc - these are the issues that would trouble me. Also the wrong headed approach to leaglising prostitition, issues with women's sports, women's spaces, these occupy me. But none of this gender pay gap shyte - none of this lack of opportunity shyte. I disgree with gender quotas - awful, awful, embarrassing.

KikiLaRue · 08-06-2019 9:25am

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I don't agree.

Women (some) need to drop the victim mentality and start taking responsibility for their success.

I know the head of a large Asian bank. She's a woman. She is childless, works all the time, and miserable. That's the kind of sacrifice it takes.

Why would you want that?

The only people who can make meaningful change are the ones who currently hold the power, which is mostly men.

RIGOLO · 08-06-2019 9:29am

What this thread needs, in fact what boards needs is a new addition to the Smilies available.

We need a 'milkshake' option , preferably some flavored milkshakes.

That way we can cut to the chase and the progressive left posters can throw milkshakes at will, whilst those on the receiving end can send them the virtual cleaning bill and then we all now where we stand.

yesto24 · 08-06-2019 9:31am

kildare lad wrote: »

Why would they do that, some people like being victims, if they've got a bad break in life they'll blame it on men because the " patriarchy still exists . All these feminists that give out on interviews about men earning more money , well maybe if they went to college and get a degree in finance or business instead of gender studies, social studies or liberal arts degrees they'd earn more money too. I'll give you an example , my friends a senior commercial manager with a large construction firm . He went to college for five years studying construction management and then did his masters, his missus is a hairdresser , who do you think makes more money .

I'll give you a clue, its not the hairdresser. No one forced her to become a hairdresser, she likes her job but it pays no where near what he earns. Is that the patriarchys fault or just her decision to become a hairdresser.

No the answer you will get is that we value typically male work and devalue typical women's work.
Complete nonsense of course.

yesto24 · 08-06-2019 9:36am

KikiLaRue wrote: »

The only people who can make meaningful change are the ones who currently hold the power, which is mostly men.

And what change do you want them to make?
The poster above put it better than I ever could, show up do the work and you could reach the top. The ones who currently hold the power did that why would they want to change it.

Chris_Heilong · 08-06-2019 11:51am

It is all part of the 'Toxic' ideology which is modern progressivism that many journalists seem to subscribe to, I heard a work mate say 'reverse racism' and I spend a good 10 minutes explaining to him that 'reverse racism' does not exist and it is actually pure racism, does not matter where it comes from. All people should be held to the same standards if we want to live in a fair society.

Hell remember that channel 4 guy said "I've never seen so many white people", so much cringe.

Nobelium · 08-06-2019 12:17pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It is all part of the 'Toxic' ideology which is modern progressivism that many journalists seem to subscribe to, I heard a work mate say 'reverse racism' and I spend a good 10 minutes explaining to him that 'reverse racism' does not exist and it is actually pure racism, does not matter where it comes from. All people should be held to the same standards if we want to live in a fair society.

Hell remember that channel 4 guy said "I've never seen so many white people", so much cringe.

Correct, whatever happened to the logical conclusion that someone's skin colour and sex should not matter, or should be allowed to define and categorise them ? Or are all bets off when it comes to making sexist and racist remarks about white males.

MontgomeryClift · 08-06-2019 11:45pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It is all part of the 'Toxic' ideology which is modern progressivism that many journalists seem to subscribe to, I heard a work mate say 'reverse racism' and I spend a good 10 minutes explaining to him that 'reverse racism' does not exist and it is actually pure racism, does not matter where it comes from. All people should be held to the same standards if we want to live in a fair society.

Hell remember that channel 4 guy said "I've never seen so many white people", so much cringe.

It's worth watching this breakdown of John Snow's very revealing remark. In the latter part of the video, he also criticises the strategy of trying to call non-whites "racist," which some of you are trying here by claiming that "Reverse racism is just racism too."

That won't work because "racism" is something that only white people can be guilty of. Other races aren't ashamed of being tribal (racist), so trying to call them "racist" never works. Haven't you noticed that? Only the white man can be made to feel ashamed for being tribal.

Bobblehats · 08-06-2019 11:58pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Few8kJ0zfnY

If it keeps your whites white that’s gotta be progress.

SirGerryAdams · 10-06-2019 8:25am

I see that in the english premier league next season for every managerial job they have to interview a black or ethnic minority person. Very racist.

Imagine being a black coach and thinking you're only there because they have to interview you. Or imagine being the coach who's missed out on an interview because his place was taken by a BAME.

atticu · 10-06-2019 9:32am

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I’m living in today. I’m very grateful that I was born when I was and I fully acknowledge now is the best time there has ever been to be a woman in Ireland.

I can still see that woman are dramatically underrepresented at the highest levels of power- politics, the judiciary, business, medicine.

And I’m not okay with that.

And what are you doing to change this?

RIGOLO · 10-06-2019 10:29am

atticu wrote: »

And what are you doing to change this?

Unfortunately many women will think that if they have a protest march and wear pink hats, that is all thats required for change.
I dont blame them , its what they have been fed.
They have been fed that a strong woman wears pink and carries a placard with some catchy logo and goes on a march.
Remember culture is up stream of society and modern culture has fed them that

By all means marches and protests have their place but without actually taking action they are meaningless.

There was a generation of women (your grandmothers) who did know how to get organised and take action and DO SOMETHING, rather than get organised and just protest.

Im a huge fan of the WVS, WI, WRAF, WRAC, TS, WRNS, HG, MU, TG.... now that was an impressive bunch of women who got things done on a scale that even today astound me.

KikiLaRue · 10-06-2019 10:34am

RIGOLO wrote: »

Unfortunately many women will think that if they have a protest march and wear pink hats, that is all thats required for change.
I dont blame them , its what they have been fed.
They have been fed that a strong woman wears pink and carries a placard with some catchy logo and goes on a march.
Remember culture is up stream of society and modern culture has fed them that

By all means marches and protests have their place but without actually taking action they are meaningless.

There was a generation of women (your grandmothers) who did know how to get organised and take action and DO SOMETHING, rather than get organised and just protest.

Im a huge fan of the WVS, WI, WRAF, WRAC, TS, WRNS, HG, MU, TG.... now that was an impressive bunch of women who got things done on a scale that even today astound me.

Maybe you missed the campaign last year led by women to repeal the 8th? Whichever side of the debate you were on, surely you can see they organized and ran an excellent campaign?

Grayson · 10-06-2019 11:10am

Zorya wrote: »

I am. Politics is a filthy game where you have to schmooze all and sundry and give over every moment of your personal life to the public who elected you. Being a judge is boring and sedentary and high stress, all qualities that could give you an early heart attack or a drink problem. Medicine requires very long hours to advance in any field, to professorship level or surgeon, some might say it requires a certain element of psychopathy in the personality. Business success at the higher ends requires 80+ hour working weeks, more schmoozing, networking, grafting beyond human comfort and only the very few will succeed at the highest levels. Most women and indeed most men don't want to sacrifice their life//work balance for something like that.
.

We are 86th in the world in terms of female representation in our parliament. That's 22% of the representative are women. And I'm pretty certain that's the highest percentage it's ever been.

Countries that are ahead of us are Iraq, Rwanda, Zimbabwe, South Sudan, Somalia and of course, most of europe.

We're in the bottom half of the world.

Which makes me wonder, the people who try to say women aren't in politics because it's dirty, do they think that Irish women are weaker than other women. Or cound the difference be that in Ireland politics isn't as welcoming?

Zorya · 10-06-2019 11:33am

Grayson wrote: »

Which makes me wonder, the people who try to say women aren't in politics because it's dirty, do they think that Irish women are weaker than other women. Or cound the difference be that in Ireland politics isn't as welcoming?

Welcoming? What would you suggest? Scented candles or emotional support animals? A woman here, just like a man, will get just under 100000 euro per annum as a TD, plus expenses. It's there for the taking if she wants it, campaigns and gets elected. In facto, I heard a snippet on the radio that most women who ran recently got elected. That is welcoming enough. Women are not children in need of special support.

RIGOLO · 10-06-2019 11:39am

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Maybe you missed the campaign last year led by women to repeal the 8th? Whichever side of the debate you were on, surely you can see they organized and ran an excellent campaign?

Yes congratulations. Women went out and cast a ballot.
Thats usally what needs to be done to win a referendum .

But in the practical world to make inroads in many other areas, protests and casting ballots is not enough and never was.
For example , if you want to see more women on the board of tech companies, why dont more women sign up for engineering degrees.
Or is it that we need to raise awareness for women of engineering, as if spending all day on their phones using a million and one apps wasnt awareness enough.

Grayson · 10-06-2019 12:09pm

Zorya wrote: »

Welcoming? What would you suggest? Scented candles or emotional support animals? A woman here, just like a man, will get just under 100000 euro per annum as a TD, plus expenses. It's there for the taking if she wants it, campaigns and gets elected. In facto, I heard a snippet on the radio that most women who ran recently got elected. That is welcoming enough. Women are not children in need of special support.

You quoted two questions and didn't actually suggest an answer. So let's put it like this.

Why are we 86th in the world? Why is 22% the highest female representation we've ever had. Do you think we should do anything about this? And if not, do you think 22% is perfectly acceptable.

OMM 0000 · 10-06-2019 12:19pm

Grayson wrote: »

You quoted two questions and didn't actually suggest an answer. So let's put it like this.

Why are we 86th in the world? Why is 22% the highest female representation we've ever had. Do you think we should do anything about this? And if not, do you think 22% is perfectly acceptable.

Less women than men want to be TDs.

Less men than women want to be teachers.

Less women than men want to be mechanics.

Less men than women want to be biologists.

Why?

Men and women are different.

Good luck to any women who want to be TDs, and good luck to any men who want to be teachers.

IMO the lack of male teachers is a much bigger problem than the lack of female TDs.

Zorya · 10-06-2019 12:27pm

Grayson wrote: »

Why are we 86th in the world? Why is 22% the highest female representation we've ever had. Do you think we should do anything about this? And if not, do you think 22% is perfectly acceptable.

Why are we 86th in the world?
No idea. Shrugs.

Why is 22% the highest female representation we've ever had.
No idea. Shrugs.

Do you think we should do anything about this?
The is nothing that needs to be done. The option is freely and equitably available to both sexes.

Do you think 22% is perfectly acceptable
Yes. If that's what the perfectly equitable, democratic mix throws up, then sure. It doesn't bother me in the least. I don't think there are ''women's issues'' or ''men's issues'', I think there are human being issues, and I am weary and bored of wading through the long ago battlefields between the sexes in these comfortable parts of the planet.

OneEyedORourke · 10-06-2019 12:39pm

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Correct. They live in one of the most free, liberal (even if they'd have you believe they don't) comfortable, technologically advanced societies on the planet. Given to them mostly by straight white Christian males. The ones they haven't a good word to say about.

This made me laugh out loud.

MrFresh · 10-06-2019 12:39pm

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Less women than men want to be TDs.

Less men than women want to be teachers.

Less women than men want to be mechanics.

Less men than women want to be biologists.

Why?

Men and women are different.

Men and women are brought up different.

Zorya · 10-06-2019 12:53pm

MrFresh wrote: »

Men and women are brought up different.

‘The times have changed, men and women are the same’ ~ Chairman Mao.

Boys and girls even dressed the same for a while. Hint : It didn't turn out well.

OMM 0000 · 10-06-2019 12:54pm

MrFresh wrote: »

Men and women are brought up different.

I can think of three studies off the top of my head:

1. Babies looking at people vs objects

Female babies who are one day old spend more time looking at people rather than objects.

Male babies who are one day old spend more time looking at objects rather than people.

2. Females interested in objects

A study was done on females who are interested in objects, and it turned out they have higher levels of testosterone compared to females interested in people.

3. Monkeys playing with dolls vs objects

Female monkeys prefer to play with dolls.

Male monkeys prefer to play with objects.

...

My conclusion is men and women are biologically different and like different things.

How does this related to TDs? Surely being a TD is a "people" thing rather than an "object" thing?

I believe this is where society overrules biology.

Society rewards men who have power.

How?

Pussy and money.

So as long as X will give men power, men will pursue it.

Men don't give a **** if a woman has power or not, so women don't have the same societal drive to gain power.

By all means ask Irish women to stop being attracted to men with power, and you'll see a lot more men choosing to work in less stressful, lower paid jobs. You would also need to ask men to start being attracted to women with power, and then maybe more women will fight to become TDs.

KikiLaRue · 10-06-2019 1:27pm

RIGOLO wrote: »

Yes congratulations. Women went out and cast a ballot.
Thats usally what needs to be done to win a referendum .

But in the practical world to make inroads in many other areas, protests and casting ballots is not enough and never was.
For example , if you want to see more women on the board of tech companies, why dont more women sign up for engineering degrees.
Or is it that we need to raise awareness for women of engineering, as if spending all day on their phones using a million and one apps wasnt awareness enough.

I have answers to your points, but I can see I’m not going to chance your mind.

And if I call you sexist you’ll cry foul. So I won’t. But you certainly seem to hold some opinions that would be consistent with how a sexist sees the world.

Bye.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 10-06-2019 1:32pm

Grayson wrote: »

We are 86th in the world in terms of female representation in our parliament. That's 22% of the representative are women. And I'm pretty certain that's the highest percentage it's ever been.

Countries that are ahead of us are Iraq, Rwanda, Zimbabwe, South Sudan, Somalia and of course, most of europe.

We're in the bottom half of the world.

Which makes me wonder, the people who try to say women aren't in politics because it's dirty, do they think that Irish women are weaker than other women. Or cound the difference be that in Ireland politics isn't as welcoming?

The difference is these places probably have a different voting system.

KikiLaRue · 10-06-2019 1:33pm

Zorya wrote: »

Why are we 86th in the world?
No idea. Shrugs.

Why is 22% the highest female representation we've ever had.
No idea. Shrugs.

Do you think we should do anything about this?
The is nothing that needs to be done. The option is freely and equitably available to both sexes.

Do you think 22% is perfectly acceptable
Yes. If that's what the perfectly equitable, democratic mix throws up, then sure. It doesn't bother me in the least. I don't think there are ''women's issues'' or ''men's issues'', I think there are human being issues, and I am weary and bored of wading through the long ago battlefields between the sexes in these comfortable parts of the planet.

That is quite simply not true. It annoys me that you express your opinion with such confidence while being totally and utterly wrong.

There are additional barriers for women.

These were identified in a Joint Oireachtas Report in 2013 and are known as the “5 C’s”:

- Candidate selection
- Cash
- Childcare
- Culture
- Confidence

https://m.independent.ie/lifestyle/the-five-cs-in-womens-way-29207130.html

I get that you’re not a feminist and you think everything is grand, but it’s heartbreaking and deeply frustrating that you’re so actively against women who want more representation (because 22% is a pretty poor showing)

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 10-06-2019 1:35pm

Grayson wrote: »

You quoted two questions and didn't actually suggest an answer. So let's put it like this.

Why are we 86th in the world? Why is 22% the highest female representation we've ever had. Do you think we should do anything about this? And if not, do you think 22% is perfectly acceptable.

If you want a representative parliament we could select one. 100-200 random citizens selected to the upper house with maybe some enterance criteria. Or maybe not. Vote as they would in a referendum. Something like a permanent citizens assembly.

FTA69 · 10-06-2019 1:40pm

Zorya wrote: »

Yes. If that's what the perfectly equitable, democratic mix throws up, then sure. It doesn't bother me in the least. I don't think there are ''women's issues'' or ''men's issues'', I think there are human being issues, and I am weary and bored of wading through the long ago battlefields between the sexes in these comfortable parts of the planet.

Of course there are women's issues and men's issues. What was the abortion referendum about only a woman's right to choose? What about things like sexual harassment on the street or in the workplace? What about issues like domestic violence (yes I know it's not limited to women but the forms and severity often differ)? What about unaffordable childcare keeping women out of the workplace?

There's loads of issues that affect women because they are women.

Silentcorner · 10-06-2019 1:45pm

KikiLaRue wrote: »

That is quite simply not true. It annoys me that you express your opinion with such confidence while being totally and utterly wrong.

There are additional barriers for women.

These were identified in a Joint Oireachtas Report in 2013 and are known as the “5 C’s”:

- Candidate selection
- Cash
- Childcare
- Culture
- Confidence

https://m.independent.ie/lifestyle/the-five-cs-in-womens-way-29207130.html

I get that you’re not a feminist and you think everything is grand, but it’s heartbreaking and deeply frustrating that you’re so actively against women who want more representation (because 22% is a pretty poor showing)

What a load of nonsense, any one can claim they don't have enough cash or confidence, or that the culture lends itself to political dynasties or whatever, with the exception of childcare, which to be fair would only affect young mothers, that list is a joke....

What do you expect to get with a 50/50 gender representation, are there rights men have currently that women don't have?

Open racism is ok if it's for the progressive cause.

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