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Can we talk about AH?

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    #842
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,711 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    You have a problem for every solution.
    Funnily enough we've discussed many of these issues in the past. Quite a few times indeed. I'm simply using my own experience of some of those discussions to highlight why we have not gone down various routes previously

    I am not suggesting these things should not be reviewed, but equally I was a significant participant in the "Slow death of forums" thread in AH a year or two ago. The underlying sentiment was that such sites are past their peak, and it does not make sense to apply onerous restrictions on posting as that is likely to exacerbate any "decline"


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    #843
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Beasty wrote: »
    Funnily enough we've discussed many of these issues in the past. Quite a few times indeed. I'm simply using my own experience of some of those discussions to highlight why we have not gone down various routes previously

    I am not suggesting these things should not be reviewed, but equally I was a significant participant in the "Slow death of forums" thread in AH a year or two ago. The underlying sentiment was that such sites are past their peak, and it does not make sense to apply onerous restrictions on posting as that is likely to exacerbate any "decline"

    But that’s obviously not the case. Again, Boards is one of the top 50 sites in Ireland - it’s not in decline at all.

    A number of (to my mind) good suggestions have been made and there seems to be an attitude of “ah that won’t work among Mods because it’s easier to say that than try to fix it.


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    #844
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    But that’s obviously not the case. Again, Boards is one of the top 50 sites in Ireland - it’s not in decline at all.

    A number of (to my mind) good suggestions have been made and there seems to be an attitude of “ah that won’t work among Mods because it’s easier to say that than try to fix it.

    There is very much a defeatist attitude permeating the thread. That and complacency. Very much “We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!”.


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    #845
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    But that’s obviously not the case. Again, Boards is one of the top 50 sites in Ireland - it’s not in decline at all.

    A number of (to my mind) good suggestions have been made and there seems to be an attitude of “ah that won’t work among Mods because it’s easier to say that than try to fix it.

    a further number of responses have been "other posters are allowed to have opinions you dont like" and thats pretty much the matter closed tbh


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    #846
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Necro wrote: »
    Have you ever thought that they may simply be overworked given the volume of posts in AH?

    It's not like it's a paid position or anything.

    I do have sympathy for that. More mods is the obvious solution but that was also shot down.


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    #847
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Tbh - much of this discusion appears to have descended into a negation of the generally accepted idea that ‘I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,’ and been replaced with 'do not say anything which I disagree with - else I will get highly offended and demand retribution' ...


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    #848
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    well theyre getting their desired mod actions.

    protest works folks!


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    #849
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,031 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    gozunda wrote: »
    Tbh - much of this discusion appears to have descended into a negation of the generally accepted idea that ‘I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,’ and been replaced with 'do not say anything which I disagree with - else I will get highly offended and demand retribution' ...




    It's been been high levels of trollery in two or three threads, tbh.


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    #850
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    a further number of responses have been "other posters are allowed to have opinions you dont like" and thats pretty much the matter closed tbh

    No one is complaining about “opinions I don’t like”, we’re complaining about the quality of the discussions, the lack of civility, and the reluctance to enforce the forum’s charter.

    So no, the matter isn’t closed.


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    #851
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    No one is complaining about “opinions I don’t like”, we’re complaining about the quality of the discussions, the lack of civility, and the reluctance to enforce the forum’s charter.

    So no, the matter isn’t closed.

    ive to be honest

    everyone i see in this thread demanding mods gwt more involved is guiltier on the threads in question of items one and two

    item three, imo, the mods have clearly stated isnt being breached.


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    #852
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Deleted User wrote: »
    item three, imo, the mods have clearly stated isnt being breached.

    Actually I've clearly stated the exact opposite, don't misrepresent me.


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    #853
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    Actually I've clearly stated the exact opposite, don't misrepresent me.

    sorry, "the mods" isnt meant as a dictat. stramge of you to take is as one but thats your prerogative.

    the majority of mods addressing the topic

    obviously you have differed, as weve seen in the thread being discussed


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    #854
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Deleted User wrote: »
    sorry, "the mods" isnt meant as a dictat. stramge of you to take is as one but thats your prerogative.

    the majority of mods addressing the topic

    obviously you have differed, as weve seen in the thread being discussed

    I don't think so. Which (AH) mod has said otherwise? The key word in the charter not being adhered to, by the way, is lighthearted.


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    #855
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    i dont be checking which mods/admins commenting in that capacity in the thread do so as AH mods so that wasnt stipulated

    "lighthearted" is, youll forgive me for saying, a hell of a thing to decide to act upon against one or two individuals after almost seventy pages of that thread.

    everyone else was lightheartedly throwing around the term "homophobic"?

    i understand totally the disinclination of mods to litigate in-thread, and i dont know whether its in any way appropriate to do so here, but its not irrelevant to call the above out imo


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    #856
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Deleted User wrote: »
    i dont be checking which mods/admins commenting in that capacity in the thread do so as AH mods so that wasnt stipulated

    "lighthearted" is, youll forgive me for saying, a hell of a thing to decide to act upon against one or two individuals after almost seventy pages of that thread.

    everyone else was lightheartedly throwing around the term "homophobic"?

    i understand totally the disinclination of mods to litigate in-thread, and i dont know whether its in any way appropriate to do so here, but its not irrelevant to call the above out imo

    Sorry, think our wires got crossed there. I was stating that about AH in general, realise now you're talking about that specific thread.


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    #857
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Odhinn wrote: »
    It's been been high levels of trollery in two or three threads, tbh.

    The complaints have not necessarily been thread specific imo. It comes across more as a general whinge directed at all AH ...

    If there are genuine trolls - report them. However kiboshing all and sundry because some don't like contrary views is not helpful for any discussion.


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    #858
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    Sorry, think our wires got crossed there. I was stating that about AH in general, realise now you're talking about that specific thread.

    thats fairer. if my reference to the modding in the specific thread is out of order so, ill delete (or feel free to do so)


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    #859
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Deleted User wrote: »
    thats fairer. if my reference to the modding in the specific thread is out of order so, ill delete (or feel free to do so)

    In that thread, I stepped in yesterday after it was being utterly derailed. Have barely been in since tbh.


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    #860
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    ive to be honest

    everyone i see in this thread demanding mods gwt more involved is guiltier on the threads in question of items one and two

    item three, imo, the mods have clearly stated isnt being breached.

    Honestly it’s very hard not to get caught up in it and be civilized to someone when they are consistently posting anti-women, anti-traveller, anti-Muslim threads.

    It’s not a side of myself I like but it’s very difficult not to bite back sometimes.


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    #861
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »
    That's the fundamental issue here, I think.

    It's like posters have, for the first time in their life, come across somebody that has an opposing viewpoint to themselves and don't have idea how to engage in a discussion.

    Despite the ability of the internet to open the whole world to people, it seems like the first time they have pulled back the curtain and looked outside.

    This isn't about 'viewpoints'. My posts in the thread were telling those who were saying it wasn't homophobic that it was so. The Met Police said it was, but the geniuses in the thread want to deny it and play it down.

    There's having views and there's trying to deny and play down facts, like that homophobic attack thread.


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    #862
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Honestly it’s very hard not to get caught up in it and be civilized to someone when they are consistently posting anti-women, anti-traveller, anti-Muslim threads.

    It’s not a side of myself I like but it’s very difficult not to bite back sometimes.

    despite being on the opposite side of this one (tho i think ive managed to avoid blaming muslims for anything *just* yet to be fair to myself) i get that.

    but i think that too many people are too quick to reach for that magical 'cancellation' point when they see someone disagreeing, and the tendency to therefore rush to declare something anti-x occurs

    and once its been declared theres no way back because online discourse in 2019 doesnt allow for that type of battle line to be redrawn

    and once one poster crosses or is deemed to have crossed such a line, all too often ~every other poster~ has to be "with us or agin us" and it goes to sh1t from there. at the very best case, anyone not onside in any way will simply be ignored in favour of the easy target.

    essentially, 'gotcha!, now you're cancelled, lock thread' cannot be something the moderators of after hours should be asked to support, its the very opposite of good discussion

    all imo obv


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    #863
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Beasty wrote: »
    That would discourage new sign-ups big time. Equally I suspect that if we were starting afresh there would not be an access request process for Soccer. And on that particular point, yes we see each extreme of the spectrum in Soccer, but they are simply at each end of the East Lancs Road (Liverpool and Manchester for those not familiar with the geography) - that's very different from the extremism encountered in AH (which itself is arguably on the back of wider changes to the political environment in recent years)


    Do many new posters sign up for After Hours? I would have thought that people new to Boards sign up for more niche forums and get drawn to AH after a while.

    Skylinehead wrote: »
    First and foremost, I want AH to be fun.


    This. There have been some great threads in the past, even threads at people's expense (Maria Bailey), but so often they just turn nasty. It's an unwelcoming place for many people of different backgrounds.


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    #864
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MrFresh wrote: »




    It's an unwelcoming place for many people of different backgrounds.


    id just point out that this is speculative. as well to claim that its an unwelcoming place for anyone looking to debate controversial issues, or who holds politically incorrect opinions that are quite common in any pub or workplace in the country.

    no one poster or group can say why new posters may or may not be posting on AH or anywhere else and its a bit of a political act to hang any one cause on


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    #865
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    RasTa wrote: »
    Ask yourself why does the soccer forum need restrictions before posting and if it worked, why aren't we implementing the same to AH

    If football forum was run like After Hours it would look like the Thunderdome for five minutes and then be shut down. The way AH has become an arena for bigotry and ugly idelogy is rather depressing, it used to be fun but now it's st*rmfr*nt for toddlers. The admims should change the whole basis of the forum and nuke anything that is designed for division and conflict based on race, religion, creed, sexuality, gender, nationality, science, and a few other things. All these broad topics are covered elsewhere on boards.ie with dedicated moderators and charters.


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    #866
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Deleted User wrote: »
    id just point out that this is speculative. as well to claim that its an unwelcoming place for anyone looking to debate controversial issues, or who holds politically incorrect opinions that are quite common in any pub or workplace in the country.

    no one poster or group can say why new posters may or may not be posting on AH or anywhere else and its a bit of a political act to hang any one cause on


    Well if it comes to a choice between making someone feel bad because they were born a certain way or making someone feel bad because their "politically incorrect" view is subject to ridicule or challenge then I don't really see a dilemma.


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    #867
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MrFresh wrote: »
    Well if it comes to a choice between making someone feel bad because they were born a certain way or making someone feel bad because their "politically incorrect" view is subject to ridicule or challenge then I don't really see a dilemma.

    its not really for me to reiterate what has been said pretty well by a few mods in here already the past while and ive no interest in trying to debate the framing youve chosen to put on it so yknow there we are


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    #868
    Sweetemotion
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion


    MrFresh wrote: »
    Well if it comes to a choice between making someone feel bad because they were born a certain way or making someone feel bad because their "politically incorrect" view is subject to ridicule or challenge then I don't really see a dilemma.


    What if you are born a white male and take pride in being so?


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    #869
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Why does there need to be moderation?


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    #870
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Why does there need to be moderation?

    I’ve participated in moderator-less forums. They are an absolute mess.


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    #871
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    What if you are born a white male and take pride in being so?


    What if you are?


This discussion has been closed.
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