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Can we talk about AH?

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    #812
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,837 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Please note there is a minimum 3 months on the site and 100 posts before being allowed to post in Feedback

    A number of posts plus responses have been deleted, and the re-reg troll in question banned yet again


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    #813
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,837 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Appoint more Mods.
    One of the issues being raised here is lack of consistency in moderation. More mods is unlikely to improve that


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    #814
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    KikiLaRue wrote:
    I can totally see that it’s a thankless, voluntary unpaid role - there are solutions for that too. Appoint more Mods.


    How many is enough though?

    20?
    50?

    It's very hard to get a balance (and the personnel) to put themselves through the nonsense in AH, but genuinely...

    Would you do it?

    You would not pay me enough to be subjected to the vitriol that they get, just look at the last few pages as an example before you even deal with PMs when a poster is warned/banned/infracted.


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    #815
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Good point also ban those who start calling people Alt right,Nazi, racist, facist and trump lover.

    We would fix it together in no time.

    Nazi, racist, fascist is fine. They have being around for a long time. I'll give ye the other two. cuckoid or whatever that is should be a lifetime ban.

    Anyway try out a minimum post count if you have trouble with re-reg's. That's them sorted or have a newbie AH sub section and let them play in there.

    So easy too fix, so easy.


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    #816
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Necro wrote: »
    Have you ever thought that they may simply be overworked given the volume of posts in AH?

    It's not like it's a paid position or anything.

    I actually have (used to be a mod elsewhere myself) but the free reign for hijackers only results in more work eventually. The homophobic attack thread has 800 posts now, I'd estimate that at least a half if not better is about Muslims and everything about them.
    I don't envy anyone who would like to clean it up now but their job would be much easier if it was nipped in the bud.


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    #817
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Beasty wrote: »
    One of the issues being raised here is lack of consistency in moderation. More mods is unlikely to improve that

    Going back to my [somewhat cynical] point earlier about Boards owners, this is one of the most popular websites in Ireland and there are multiple ads on every page. Presumably this site is a pretty profitable venture.

    Is it crazy to suggest that you offer Mods proper training?


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    #818
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Necro wrote: »
    How many is enough though?

    20?
    50?

    It's very hard to get a balance (and the personnel) to put themselves through the nonsense in AH, but genuinely...

    Would you do it?

    You would not pay me enough to be subjected to the vitriol that they get, just look at the last few pages as an example before you even deal with PMs when a poster is warned/banned/infracted.

    You’re making it sound impossible but it works just fine on other Boards forums where the Charters are strictly enforced?


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    #819
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Pappadolla has a point. I’d be quite happy for Mods and Admin to step up and spell out explicitly for us the kind of place they want AH to be.
    Ok, I'll do this. Bear in mind I've pretty much zero communication with admins on what they want it to be.

    First and foremost, I want AH to be fun. And in my mind, that means getting rid of, among a long long list, the constant men vs women threads, left vs right, liberals and conservatives, politics, religion, travellers, pretty much any imported American political talk (talking snowflakes, drumpf, etc etc). Because those threads are just ways for people to argue the same inane points again and again.

    Can I do that? I'm not sure. Half the people will hate me for it and the other half already hate me for not doing it. Part of the job I guess. But I did not sign up for moderating political crap, which is what half of AH is these days.

    I know who the troublemakers and usual suspects are. They're very clever in staying just within the rules. If I can get rid of all the crap mentioned above, it becomes much easier.

    The problem is getting consensus. How do we decide on what AH should be, keeping in mind some people like it the way it is, and some (like me) want it changed?

    On the homophobia thread, I spent far too much of my weekend yesterday arguing with that Nobelium guy on his farcical "it wasn't homophobia" argument. I banned him, but I've absolutely no appetite for looking at it again today. No surprise it's gone to **** again, most of AH does eventually.


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    #820
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    The moderation is the biggest issue. From the inconsistency to the smug public way they make people (pointlessly) appeal infractions it's an absolute powertrip now too.

    Posting will always be varied, and some will be terrible, but consistent proper moderation can help massively but it falls so short on this site it's laughable.
    I take issue with this. I've been overturned by my cmods or admins in 5 of my last 6 drp's (that weren't blatant reregs acting the pr!ck).
    The last 3 the person started a drp before contacting me and when they did we sorted it without the need for a cmod/admin input.

    It might not be a perfect system but it works.
    Also, I'm a member of about 25 different forums. And this is the only one that allows you appeal. The rest it's a straight up site ban, goodbye.


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    #821
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    KikiLaRue wrote:
    You’re making it sound impossible but it works just fine on other Boards forums where the Charters are strictly enforced?

    Well Kiki....
    Skylinehead wrote:
    On the homophobia thread, I spent far too much of my weekend yesterday arguing with that Nobelium guy on his farcical "it wasn't homophobia" argument. I banned him, but I've absolutely no appetite for looking at it again today. No surprise it's gone to **** again, most of AH does eventually.

    This is exactly my point, straight from the mouth of a current AH mod
    (Sorry Skylinehead, just kinda reinforces my posts)

    Days wasted on one poster, why would anyone want to subject themselves to that.


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    #822
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Necro wrote: »
    Well Kiki....



    This is exactly my point, straight from the mouth of a current AH mod
    (Sorry Skylinehead, just kinda reinforces my posts)

    Days wasted on one poster, why would anyone want to subject themselves to that.

    But how come it’s doable in PI and Politics but not AH?


  • Options
    #823
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,311 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Why it's been allowed to be hijacked by the "arrrrgh islam" crowd is baffling to be honest.

    Great. Now we have to deal with Islamic Pirates.

    All Eyes On Rafah



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    #824
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Faugheen wrote: »
    The homophobic attack thread is an absolute disgrace.

    The usual whataboutery, playing it down because it involves the gays and arguing over whether it should be headline news.

    AH has become a place for bigots and trolls to vent their hateful and provocative bile and the moderators just let them away with it.

    I know moderators have a tough job but some of the posts in that thread would sicken you, and it just feels like a waste of time reporting posts now because there’s so many threads where people just post the same hate-filled nonsense to excuse or play down behaviours and actions.

    It’s a f*cking disgrace of a forum.

    you forgot to say cesspit

    your contribution to that thread is little but ad-hom and insisting that anything you disagree with is homophobia

    a stereotypical rush to be disgusted and superior, regardless of what was actually said.

    boards as a whole is in the pits because of an inability to disagree without castigating the other person as the far side of satan


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    #825
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    KikiLaRue wrote:
    But how come it’s doable in PI and Politics but not AH?

    Stricter charters maybe? AH is 'supposed' to be more light hearted. Now I'm not a regular poster there tbh, but when I do frequent I only go into the threads that might be a bit of craic and avoid the rabble (for the most part).

    Whatever other posters do is up to them but half the problem is this incessant need from some to have an opinion on absolutely everything. And then the battle from X thread rolls over into Y thread and that's where the derailing occurs.

    I'll drop an odd comment in a thread that interests me, otherwise I'd not even read it tbh.


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    #826
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    Ok, I'll do this. Bear in mind I've pretty much zero communication with admins on what they want it to be.

    First and foremost, I want AH to be fun. And in my mind, that means getting rid of, among a long long list, the constant men vs women threads, left vs right, liberals and conservatives, politics, religion, travellers, pretty much any imported American political talk (talking snowflakes, drumpf, etc etc). Because those threads are just ways for people to argue the same inane points again and again.

    Can I do that? I'm not sure. Half the people will hate me for it and the other half already hate me for not doing it. Part of the job I guess. But I did not sign up for moderating political crap, which is what half of AH is these days.

    I know who the troublemakers and usual suspects are. They're very clever in staying just within the rules. If I can get rid of all the crap mentioned above, it becomes much easier.

    The problem is getting consensus. How do we decide on what AH should be, keeping in mind some people like it the way it is, and some (like me) want it changed?

    On the homophobia thread, I spent far too much of my weekend yesterday arguing with that Nobelium guy on his farcical "it wasn't homophobia" argument. I banned him, but I've absolutely no appetite for looking at it again today. No surprise it's gone to **** again, most of AH does eventually.

    Here’s what I’d suggest.

    Once a year, Boards uses a small percentage of it’s advertising revenue to bring all available AH Mods together in person, put them up in a hotel for the night.

    Have a workshop where you discuss how things are going including feedback from non-Mods provided here on the thread.

    Try to reach a consensus on what the minimum standards are for posting.

    Then treat them to a meal and a knees-up.

    Potential benefits:

    Mods will work better together having met IRL
    Mods who are unpaid volunteers get one free night out as a perk
    Feedback is addressed in a meaningful way


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    #827
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    But how come it’s doable in PI and Politics but not AH?

    Two reasons - strictly defined charters (for example only serious posts in Politics weeds out the crap), and much less traffic.


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    #828
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    I mean if everyone just stopped taking themselves so seriously in every single thread I reckon things might be a lot better immediately.

    Instead of having to be right against bigots and racists that have that type of narrow minded view point, just ignore them maybe? At the end of the day arguing with their ilk is the online equivalent of bouncing your head off the wall.


    Or just reopen the Thunderdome, close the Prison and let all the lunatics post away there where you have to request access to view the monkeys throwing poop at each other... :P


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    #829
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,837 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Going back to my [somewhat cynical] point earlier about Boards owners, this is one of the most popular websites in Ireland and there are multiple ads on every page. Presumably this site is a pretty profitable venture.

    Is it crazy to suggest that you offer Mods proper training?
    The site may be popular, but that does not equate to being profitable. AFAIK any advertising revenue is ploughed back into employing a couple of office staff plus site developers who are largely firefighting with an antiquated (in digital terms certainly) vBulletin base

    As previously discussed in Feedback, we rolled out updated guidelines to mods some time ago.


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    #830
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Beasty wrote:
    The site may be popular, but that does not equate to being profitable. AFAIK any advertising revenue is ploughed back into employing a couple of office staff plus site developers who are largely firefighting with an antiquated (in digital terms certainly) vBulletin base


    Any room in that budget for an automated lynch counter for the Werewolf games Beasty?

    I jest, I jest...

    Kinda.


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    #831
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Ask yourself why does the soccer forum need restrictions before posting and if it worked, why aren't we implementing the same to AH


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    #832
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Beasty wrote: »
    The site may be popular, but that does not equate to being profitable. AFAIK any advertising revenue is ploughed back into employing a couple of office staff plus site developers who are largely firefighting with an antiquated (in digital terms certainly) vBulletin base

    As previously discussed in Feedback, we rolled out updated guidelines to mods some time ago.

    The company that owns Boards also owns Daft and DoneDeal afaik, just had a quick look on Alexa and they are competing with the likes of the daily mirror and all the tech giants in the top 50 most popular sites in the country.

    I don’t believe for a moment boards, daft and donedeal, all of which work on an advertising revenue model, are not profit making.


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    #833
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    <SNIP>

    Does not meet qualifying standards for posting in Feedback.


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    #834
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,837 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    RasTa wrote: »
    Ask yourself why does the soccer forum need restrictions before posting and if it worked, why aren't we implementing the same to AH

    That would discourage new sign-ups big time. Equally I suspect that if we were starting afresh there would not be an access request process for Soccer. And on that particular point, yes we see each extreme of the spectrum in Soccer, but they are simply at each end of the East Lancs Road (Liverpool and Manchester for those not familiar with the geography) - that's very different from the extremism encountered in AH (which itself is arguably on the back of wider changes to the political environment in recent years)


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    #835
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Beasty wrote: »
    That would discourage new sign-ups big time. Equally I suspect that if we were starting afresh there would not be an access request process for Soccer. And on that particular point, yes we see each extreme of the spectrum in Soccer, but they are simply at each end of the East Lancs Road (Liverpool and Manchester for those not familiar with the geography) - that's very different from the extremism encountered in AH (which itself is arguably on the back of wider changes to the political environment in recent years)

    You have a problem for every solution.


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    #836
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    Ok, I'll do this. Bear in mind I've pretty much zero communication with admins on what they want it to be.



    I know who the troublemakers and usual suspects are. They're very clever in staying just within the rules. If I can get rid of all the crap mentioned above, it becomes much easier.

    The problem is getting consensus. How do we decide on what AH should be, keeping in mind some people like it the way it is, and some (like me) want it changed?

    On the homophobia thread, I spent far too much of my weekend yesterday arguing with that Nobelium guy on his farcical "it wasn't homophobia" argument. I banned him, but I've absolutely no appetite for looking at it again today. No surprise it's gone to **** again, most of AH does eventually.
    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    You have a problem for every solution.

    Even the AH mod above isn't being listened too. If the mod doesn't know what AH should be no wonder it's a mess.


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    #837
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    RasTa wrote: »
    Even the AH mod above isn't being listened too. If the mod doesn't know what AH should be no wonder it's a mess.

    I know what I want it to be, and I know what the ethos of the forum originally was. I can implement that, but it will be messy.


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    #838
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    osarusan wrote: »
    Baffling to think that a thread about such an attack can be completely derailed into a thread about Muslims without any evidence for it, and the mods seem to think there is simply nothing they can do about it.

    Mod warnings to drop irrelevant sidetracks have been around forever.

    Absolutely. Makes no sense.


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    #839
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    I know what I want it to be, and I know what the ethos of the forum originally was. I can implement that, but it will be messy.

    It will be messy - but only for a while - and then it will likely be much, much better.

    I can understand why unpair volunteers would rather avoid the messiness, and that’s why my suggestions are largely around how Admin and site owners can support Mods.


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    #840
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Deleted User wrote: »
    you forgot to say cesspit

    your contribution to that thread is little but ad-hom and insisting that anything you disagree with is homophobia

    a stereotypical rush to be disgusted and superior, regardless of what was actually said.

    boards as a whole is in the pits because of an inability to disagree without castigating the other person as the far side of satan

    That's the fundamental issue here, I think.

    It's like posters have, for the first time in their life, come across somebody that has an opposing viewpoint to themselves and don't have idea how to engage in a discussion.

    Despite the ability of the internet to open the whole world to people, it seems like the first time they have pulled back the curtain and looked outside.


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    #841
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,837 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    KikiLaRue wrote: »

    I don’t believe for a moment boards, daft and donedeal, all of which work on an advertising revenue model, are not profit making.
    I went to the trouble of downloading various sets of accounts for Boards from the CRO website some time ago

    All I will say here is I found plenty of evidence contradicting your own assertions. Now I do not have up to date figures, as there is a significant time lag before accounts are filed, so I am unable to comment on the current finances


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