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Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

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    #602
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,500 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Odhinn wrote: »
    There are anti-semites on both left and right.

    There are but at this time, the very most of them are on the Left.

    Excluding antisemites who are driven by faith.


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    #603
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Odhinn wrote: »
    You get attacked when you defend what Israel does.




    While thats obviously not on, its nothing to do with me. I'd no notion of your religion until you mentioned it.



    I never said it was. I have to say you need to check your paranoia at this stage.








    They returned Sinai because they couldn't hold it in the long run. Israel knows it can't win in a war of attrition, which is what would have resulted.


    Why are you even talking about Israel? The thread is not about Israel.


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    #604
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Israel should be OFF TOPIC in this thread.


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    #605
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,185 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Israel should be OFF TOPIC in this thread.

    Then there'd be nothing for the anti-semites on the thread to bring up.


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    #606
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Earlier: "Bad Israel! Can't keep lands you gain through war!"


    That's international law as it stands.
    Igotadose wrote: »
    Israel returns land, for their own reasons, that I doubt you're privy to. We can all have opinions, personally, I think they really wanted to be at peace with Egypt, as that dealt a big-time blow to the warmaking in the Middle East, Egypt bore the brunt of a lot of it. Yes, the US probably paid off both sides to make this happen. But it happened. All good.


    The works of Benny morris, amongst the many written on the subject, contain direct information as regards the handing back of Sinai.


    Igotadose wrote: »
    So, does Israel deserve credit for returning the Sinai to Egypt? They were under no obligation to do so.


    As I said before - holding it was impossible given that it would have ended with a war of attrition against Egypt.

    Igotadose wrote: »
    Why did Egypt not want Gaza back?


    It, somewhat like Jordan and the West Bank, ceded its authority in order to faciltate the hoped for Palestinian state.


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  • Options
    #607
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Danzy wrote: »
    There are but at this time, the very most of them are on the Left.

    Excluding antisemites who are driven by faith.




    Silly lefty bashing nonsense, tbh.


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    #608
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭1641


    Odhinn wrote:
    It, somewhat like Jordan and the West Bank, ceded its authority in order to faciltate the hoped for Palestinian state.

    What ? Jordan had control of the West Bank for the best part of 20 years up until the 1967 war. How did they go about facilitating the "hoped for Palestinian state" during that period? Ditto for the Egyptians in Gaza. Or was it that they were focussed on the goal of
    another war in which they could drive "the Jews into the sea" and carve up the territory for themselves?
    Funny how a discussion on European anti semitism keeps getting dragged into a simplistic anti- Israeli narrative - the same narrative that is used by many to justify anti semitism.


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    #609
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    1641 wrote: »
    What ? Jordan had control of the West Bank for the best part of 20 years up until the 1967 war. How did they go about facilitating the "hoped for Palestinian state" during that period? Ditto for the Egyptians in Gaza. Or was it that they were focussed on the goal of
    another war in which they could drive "the Jews into the sea" and carve up the territory for themselves?
    Funny how a discussion on European anti semitism keeps getting dragged into a simplistic anti- Israeli narrative - the same narrative that is used by many to justify anti semitism.


    Jordan and Palestine have been enemies a long time. Its not one sides fault though. They were both in it. Palestine tried to over through the Jordanian Royal family.


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    #610
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    1641 wrote: »
    What ? Jordan had control of the West Bank for the best part of 20 years up until the 1967 war. How did they go about facilitating the "hoped for Palestinian state" during that period? ...............
    http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/88_july31.html


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    #611
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Syria declared war on Israel ....and lost ...and Israel took the golan heights because they were worried Assads father would slaughter people there and for security reasons.

    And yes they hold it and the people there are now Israeli citizens and would vote to stay in Israel for OBVIOUS reasons.

    There are Arabs and Druze there all are Israeli citizens and even serve in the IDF.

    It's the IDF that defend the people in the Golan Heights from assad.

    They even have Arab Generals in the IDF.

    They'll leave the oil sit so ;)
    Not that they were given a vote to welcome their Israeli overlords.


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    #612
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭1641


    Anyone notice the banner at the anti - Trump protest today to the effect that they were all in the pocket of "the Rothschild's"? Not anti semitic, though, of course.


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    #613
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Odhinn wrote: »
    http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/88_july31.html

    Recognizing the desirability of supporting the Palestinians in their struggle for independence, on July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area.




    This clearly illustrates Jordan controlled the west bank up into the 80s.

    Anyway Israel has totally withdrawn from the west bank.


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    #614
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    1641 wrote: »
    Anyone notice the banner at the anti - Trump protest today to the effect that they were all in the pocket of "the Rothschild's"? Not anti semitic, though, of course.


    I did.


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    #615
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    This clearly illustrates Jordan controlled the west bank up into the 80s.
    Anyway Israel has totally withdrawn from the west bank.


    Ye wha....?


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    #616
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Ye wha....?


    Sorry i meant gaza.

    They will withdraw from the west bank too in a few years. That's the plan. They want palestine to accept an official border and recognize israel.


    https://www.france24.com/en/20190206-netanyahu-rival-speaks-possible-west-bank-withdrawal

    They really WANT to withdraw from the westbank.

    I would say with bibi gone in a few yrs they will. They will focus security elsewhere in a different way.


    They have wanted to for yrs.

    https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-bibi-would-leave-90-of-west-bank-1.5287123

    But when they withdrew from Gaza hamas fired rockets.


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    #617
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Sorry i meant gaza.

    They will withdraw from the west bank too in a few years. That's the plan. They want palestine to accept an official border and recognize israel.




    You're rather an amazingly optimistic optimist it has to be said.


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    #618
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Odhinn wrote: »
    You're rather an amazingly optimistic optimist it has to be said.


    I am not I just know how much Israelis want to be rid of palestine

    Its true they WANT to withdraw. And it will happen suddenly too.

    https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-bibi-would-leave-90-of-west-bank-1.5287123
    https://www.france24.com/en/20190206-netanyahu-rival-speaks-possible-west-bank-withdrawal


    I just want peace between them.


    You just hate israelis and want them dead. Admit it.


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    #619
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    I am not I just know how much Israelis want to be rid of palestine

    https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-bibi-would-leave-90-of-west-bank-1.5287123
    https://www.france24.com/en/20190206-netanyahu-rival-speaks-possible-west-bank-withdrawal


    I just want peace between them.


    You just hate israelis and want them dead. Admit it.


    A bizarre claim.


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    #620
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭1641


    ILoveYourVibes wrote:
    You just hate israelis and want them dead. Admit it.


    In fairness, I didn't detect this from Odhinn - unlike from some who endorsed and them amplied some of his posts. Perhaps he should reflect on whether he is an unwitting enabler, though.


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    #621
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    1641 wrote: »
    In fairness, I didn't detect this from Odhinn - unlike from some who endorsed and them amplied some of his posts. Perhaps he should reflect on whether he is an unwitting enabler, though.




    An individual with an irrational hatred of Jews (or indeed any particular grouping) will latch on to any seeming "justification" for their prejudice.


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    #622
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    1641 wrote: »
    In fairness, I didn't detect this from Odhinn - unlike from some who endorsed and them amplied some of his posts. Perhaps he should reflect on whether he is an unwitting enabler, though.


    I detect it perhaps i am wrong.

    To be clear i didn't say he hated jews. I said he hated israelis all israelis and this ....crusade of people like him enables jew hatred.


  • Options
    #623
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    It's nothing to do with Jews, gentlmen, . If it was the Indonesians justifying the colonisation of West Papua I'd take the same line.


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    #624
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Odhinn wrote: »
    A bizarre claim.
    Indeed it is and me and Od would rarely agree on much of anything. [insert that escalated quickly meme here]

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #625
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,500 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    1641 wrote: »
    Anyone notice the banner at the anti - Trump protest today to the effect that they were all in the pocket of "the Rothschild's"? Not anti semitic, though, of course.

    Trump's grandkids are Jewish, so Trump is now seen as in the hands of world Jewry.


  • Options
    #626
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,500 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Odhinn wrote: »
    It's nothing to do with Jews, gentlmen, . If it was the Indonesians justifying the colonisation of West Papua I'd take the same line.

    I don't doubt that but to pretend there is not a very large problem with antisemitism in much of the modern Left is deeply blinkered.

    In Ireland it is not a problem, elsewhere,yes.


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    #627
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,815 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Danzy wrote: »
    I don't doubt that but to pretend there is not a very large problem with antisemitism in much of the modern Left is deeply blinkered.

    In Ireland it is not a problem, elsewhere,yes.

    Have yet to come across someone on the hard left who isn't borderline obsessed with Israel. Am not referring to normal (and warranted) criticism, it's well beyond that. It's an unhealthy fixation on one situation in a world with many situations.


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    #628
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Have yet to come across someone on the hard left who isn't borderline obsessed with Israel. Am not referring to normal (and warranted) criticism, it's well beyond that. It's an unhealthy fixation on one situation in a world with many situations.

    You see the video over the weekend of the protest at the spire, their obsession and support because it reminds then of our own struggle thrown back in their faces as they are white and have privilege lol.


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    #629
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    1641 wrote: »
    Anyone notice the banner at the anti - Trump protest today to the effect that they were all in the pocket of "the Rothschild's"? Not anti semitic, though, of course.

    And so all the protesters are anti-whatever religion Trump is I suppose?


  • Options
    #630
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    I am not I just know how much Israelis want to be rid of palestine

    Its true they WANT to withdraw. And it will happen suddenly too.

    https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-bibi-would-leave-90-of-west-bank-1.5287123
    https://www.france24.com/en/20190206-netanyahu-rival-speaks-possible-west-bank-withdrawal


    I just want peace between them.


    You just hate israelis and want them dead. Admit it.

    The only truthful thing in your fantasy post.


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    #631
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    I detect it perhaps i am wrong.

    To be clear i didn't say he hated jews. I said he hated israelis all israelis and this ....crusade of people like him enables jew hatred.

    Look the Israeli state commits criminal acts. It occupies the land of others and treats Palestinians like dirt when not murdering them. A crusade is warranted. The Israelis feed the Jewish connection while Jews the world over don't like the Israeli regime claiming to represent all Jews by associating anti-Israel with antisemetism.
    Danzy wrote: »
    I don't doubt that but to pretend there is not a very large problem with antisemitism in much of the modern Left is deeply blinkered.

    In Ireland it is not a problem, elsewhere,yes.

    And the right is cool with the Jewish people? You can tell the left dislike Jews by all their fighting for equality.


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