Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

Franz Von Peppercorn II

suicide_circus wrote: »

is it any wonder antisemitism is on the rise when the UN itself is a bastion of antisemitism?

http://virtualjerusalem.com/news.php?Itemid=29062

The whole world now. Not just Europe. The whole world.

And the whole wide world is anti Semitic because it’s anti Israeli. This deliberate attempt to conflate opposition to Israel to anti Semitism now includes the whole world. Everybody on earth. There can be no other explanation.

Israel is great but the world is anti Semitic.

1641

1641 wrote: »

Can you show me how it is "clear from my posts" that I "hate Europe" ?


But lest you be in any doubt I love Europe and I am very pro EU (despite some faults).


I do hate anti-semitism - and racism in general.

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Your entire rant is about European anti Semitism - calling a whole continent racist based on the actions of some of those countries historically. You use this slur to support a racist state.

You are not “anti racist”. An anti racist would oppose Israel’s actions.

So you were not able to find where it was "clear from my posts" that I "hated Europe".


Thanks for confirming that.



Now will you point out the post, or posts, in which I called "a whole continent racist" ? Unless you think that referring to a history of anti-semitism in Europe is the same as "calling a whole continent racist".


And as for "ranting"...................

suicide_circus

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

The whole world now. Not just Europe. The whole world.

And the whole wide world is anti Semitic because it’s anti Israeli. This deliberate attempt to conflate opposition to Israel to anti Semitism now includes the whole world. Everybody on earth. There can be no other explanation.

Israel is great but the world is anti Semitic.

I guess I'm just flabbergasted that Israel is such a big issue in Irish political circles.

All politics is local, that's a fine maxim imo.

City councillors with the time and attention to set motions about Palestinian flags are city councillors that won't ever see a vote from me.

biko

Perhaps if more people in Ireland had Jewish neighbours the antisemitism wouldn't be so bad.

1641

I am not a practising religious myself, but I admire this Christian plea for the active rejection of hatred of minorities, while reflecting where an ideology of exclusion and scapegoating led in the the past:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/scapegoating-a-minority-on-whatever-grounds-is-antithetical-to-christian-faith-1.3913568

Franz Von Peppercorn II

1641 wrote: »

So you were not able to find where it was "clear from my posts" that I "hated Europe".


Thanks for confirming that.



Now will you point out the post, or posts, in which I called "a whole continent racist" ? Unless you think that referring to a history of anti-semitism in Europe is the same as "calling a whole continent racist".


And as for "ranting"...................

You are saying, llike most apologists for the israeli regime, that the concern about Israel isn’t real concern for Palestinians but rooted in European anti semitism which is implied to be universal (even in countries with no such history like Ireland) and non expunged. I mean I can quote your posts but it’s all of them.

Conversely what you fail to deal with is the fact that most modern fascists in Europe are islamophobes, and often attend protests with both the Israeli flags and the flags of their countries.

The love for Israel amongst the far right is due to their islamophobia, and to commend the Israeli regime for its treatment of Palestinians which the fascists hope to copy for all Muslims in Europe.

I mean how many pro Israelis, online or in real life, are of the anti racist left? None.

As for ranting, I’m not. You are. In fact my first two posts were one or two line questions.

jmayo

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Sir may i quietly and respectfully ask you to consider if you think you might be masking a certain type of racism with antisemitism?

Irish Jewish schools and synagogues have similar protection same in France and in the US.

These are far right white nationalist groups.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48411735

Whether it be from the left or right racism must be opposed.

I mean lets be frank ..its not like they had no antisemtism in Germany before immigration is it?

Do you really want to list the number of attacks on Jews, Jewish schools, Synagogues by muslims in France ?

Do you seriously want to talk about how Jews were particularly targeted by islamists who for instance sought out a Kosher supermarket in Paris ?

50,000 Jews have left France for Israel in the last couple of decades because islamism is on the rise.

And yes there has always been anti-semities in Europe and now they are seeing their chance with ordinary peoples disillusion with mainstream politicians.

When you talk about Austria in particular I do agree the old Nazi tendencies have never been fully confronted.
Just remember how happy they were even in the 80s to brush Kurt Waldheim's very questionable past under the carpet.

At least the Germans had tried to face up to their past.

But anyone that thinks the introduction of millions of muslims into Europe from some of the most backward areas of Africa & Asia has no effect on the rise of
anti-semitism is freaking deluded.
They have been brought up with it and it is par for the course.

A lot of the issues with rise of far right, the real one that hates everyone and anyone, is down to fact numpties on the left, socially liberal numpties in the media and in universities in particular are labelling everyone and anyone a far right twat just because they do not subscribe to their brand of free for all with regard to free migration, wholesale globalisation, gender reassignment, etc.

A lot of people were pushed towards nazism, fascism in the 20s and 30s because on the other side you were being pushed by Soviet style communism.
The old centre is being eroded by numpties on either side.

Odhinn

bilbot79 wrote: »

Given Israel's behaviour in Palestine the rise of anti-Semitism is perfectly understandable

No, as the state of Israel is not representative of all Jews.

Odhinn

suicide_circus wrote: »

is it any wonder antisemitism is on the rise when the UN itself is a bastion of antisemitism?

http://virtualjerusalem.com/news.php?Itemid=29062

Israel has been in violation of international law since 1967, and escapes sanctions only by dint of the US UNSC veto. As a result they do indeed garner criticism on the same issues repeatedly.

mad muffin

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

You seem fierce anti European.

A lot of pro Israelis really hate the West.

What? That’s just pure idiotic. And I’m talking about your post…

Sawduck

Hate against all religions seems to be on the rise recently, to me there seems to be more hate for Muslims and Christians,but the Jewish get hate too, i don't practice religion myself but I'd never hate on ANYONE who does

Igotadose

jmayo wrote: »

A lot of the issues with rise of far right, the real one that hates everyone and anyone, is down to fact numpties on the left, socially liberal numpties in the media and in universities in particular are labelling everyone and anyone a far right twat just because they do not subscribe to their brand of free for all with regard to free migration, wholesale globalisation, gender reassignment, etc.

A lot of people were pushed towards nazism, fascism in the 20s and 30s because on the other side you were being pushed by Soviet style communism.
The old centre is being eroded by numpties on either side.

The far-right that hate everyone, enjoy doing so. They've lived in bubbles that made the hate o.k., they were likely taught it by their parents and communities. The 'rise' (if there is in fact more far-right than in the past), if anything is more frantic coverage by the media looking to gin something up that might actually not be there. It's not like we had a census of 'far-right' 30 years ago to compare with today.

Hate really is easy to stir up, targeting at certain groups enables haters to ignore their own contributions to their own problems.

1641

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Y

I mean how many pro Israelis, online or in real life, are of the anti racist left? None.

Ah - the old "how could anyone of the left be a racist" line? Racists are only those shaven-headed right wing thugs - right?


I am not "pro Israeli" as you seem to imply. I am against the completely one-sided demonisation of Israel (in a very complex conflict) and the association of this with "the Jews". I am against those whose who hide behind the Israeli-Palestine issue to hide their anti-semitism. How many variations of this sentiment have been on this thread : "Given Israel's behaviour in Palestine the rise of anti-Semitism is perfectly understandable" ?



Of course I am against the right wing version of anti-semitism - it is pretty overt. But the hard left has blinded itself to the anti-semitism in its midst.

Most leftists are probably not anti-semite. But the left has long had an anti-semitic problem:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/01/shame-of-anitsemitism-on-left-has-long-malign-history

Odhinn

1641 wrote: »

Ah - the old "how could anyone of the left be a racist" line? Racists are only those shaven-headed right wing thugs - right?


I am not "pro Israeli" as you seem to imply. I am against the completely one-sided demonisation of Israel (in a very complex conflict) and the association of this with "the Jews". I am against those whose who hide behind the Israeli-Palestine issue to hide their anti-semitism. How many variations of this sentiment have been on this thread : "Given Israel's behaviour in Palestine the rise of anti-Semitism is perfectly understandable" ?



Of course I am against the right wing version of anti-semitism - it is pretty overt. But the hard left has blinded itself to the anti-semitism in its midst.

Most leftists are probably not anti-semite. But the left has long had an anti-semitic problem:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/01/shame-of-anitsemitism-on-left-has-long-malign-history

It's not that complex, in that Israel is colonising areas outside its internationally recognised borders. That's not on, regardless of who is on the receiving end, or the religion/ethnicity of the colonisers.

ILoveYourVibes

I will say this once more considering someone just yesterday posted this

Given Israel's behavior in Palestine the rise of anti-Semitism is perfectly understandable

What has Israel got to do with Antisemitism?

ILoveYourVibes

Odhinn wrote: »

It's not that complex, in that Israel is colonising areas outside its internationally recognised borders. That's not on, regardless of who is on the receiving end, or the religion/ethnicity of the colonisers.

Its not colonization if they invade first.

And no once more what has Israel got to do with Antisemtism?

I am not an Israeli you do realize?

James Brown

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I will say this once more considering someone just yesterday posted this



What has Israel got to do with Antisemitism?

Israel will constantly relate any anti-Israeli sentiment to antisemetism. They use the Jewish faith to hide behind.
Interesting to see them complain about Syria targeting the Golan Heights, considering Israel illegally occupy that too.

ILoveYourVibes

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Israel will constantly relate any anti-Israeli sentiment to antisemetism. They use the Jewish faith to hide behind.
Interesting to see them complain about Syria targeting the Golan Heights, considering Israel illegally occupy that too.

Syria declared war on Israel ....and lost ...and Israel took the golan heights because they were worried Assads father would slaughter people there and for security reasons.

And yes they hold it and the people there are now Israeli citizens and would vote to stay in Israel for OBVIOUS reasons.

There are Arabs and Druze there all are Israeli citizens and even serve in the IDF.

It's the IDF that defend the people in the Golan Heights from assad.

They even have Arab Generals in the IDF.

Edgware

biko wrote: »

Perhaps if more people in Ireland had Jewish neighbours the antisemitism wouldn't be so bad.

True. It works well when travellers move into the neighbourhood

Odhinn

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its not colonization if they invade first.

Petty nonsense aside, it's clear who the aggressor is here, and its not the Palestinians. When you have Palestinian "settlers" driving the Israeli population out of Tel Aviv, get back to me. Secondly there is no basis in international law for the seizure of territory aqquired by offensive or defensive action.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am not an Israeli you do realize?

I never said or implied you were.

ILoveYourVibes wrote:

And yes they hold it and the people there are now Israeli citizens and would vote to stay in Israel for OBVIOUS reasons.

There's only 6,000 -7,000 Syrians left, 100,000 or so having been effectively driven out by Israel.

ILoveYourVibes

Odhinn wrote: »

Petty nonsense aside, it's clear who the aggressor is here, and its not the Palestinians. When you have Palestinian "settlers" driving the Israeli population out of Tel Aviv, get back to me. Secondly there is no basis in international law for the seizure of territory aqquired by offensive or defensive action.






I never said or implied you were.





There's only 6,000 -7,000 Syrians left, 100,000 or so having been effectively driven out by Israel.

I am not Israeli. Yet I am constantly attacked on the basis of what Israel does

I am never accepted as Irish once people know I am jewish.

ILoveYourVibes

Odhinn wrote: »

There's only 6,000 -7,000 Syrians left, 100,000 or so having been effectively driven out by Israel.

Why is this my fault?

ILoveYourVibes

The title of this thread is 'Anti Semitism' in Europe. Its not about Israel.

Israel is often just a cover for people to construct an imaginary Jewish conspiracy.

Igotadose

Odhinn wrote: »

Petty nonsense aside, it's clear who the aggressor is here, and its not the Palestinians. When you have Palestinian "settlers" driving the Israeli population out of Tel Aviv, get back to me. Secondly there is no basis in international law for the seizure of territory aqquired by offensive or defensive action.

So, when Israel returned Sinai to Egypt, that was good, right? Because there was no basis then, and they reached a settlement and it was returned. They wanted to return Gaza as well, apparently Egypt didn't want that part of the world for some reason.

1641

1641 wrote: »

Of course I am against the right wing version of anti-semitism - it is pretty overt. But the hard left has blinded itself to the anti-semitism in its midst.

Most leftists are probably not anti-semite. But the left has long had an anti-semitic problem:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/01/shame-of-anitsemitism-on-left-has-long-malign-history

Odhinn wrote: »

It's not that complex, in that Israel is colonising areas outside its internationally recognised borders. That's not on, regardless of who is on the receiving end, or the religion/ethnicity of the colonisers.

I am not going round that roundabout with you again.
Do you accept that the left are far from immune to anti-semitism and that it is not just a right wing problem?

silverharp

there is an interesting NY Times article here about Germany, essentially advising Jewish people to knuckle under and hide their identities

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/21/magazine/anti-semitism-germany.html

Odhinn

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am not Israeli. Yet I am constantly attacked on the basis of what Israel does

You get attacked when you defend what Israel does.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am never accepted as Irish once people know I am jewish.

While thats obviously not on, its nothing to do with me. I'd no notion of your religion until you mentioned it.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Why is this my fault?

I never said it was. I have to say you need to check your paranoia at this stage.

Igotadose wrote:

So, when Israel returned Sinai to Egypt, that was good, right? Because there was no basis then, and they reached a settlement and it was returned.

They returned Sinai because they couldn't hold it in the long run. Israel knows it can't win in a war of attrition, which is what would have resulted.

Odhinn

1641 wrote: »

I am not going round that roundabout with you again.
Do you accept that the left are far from immune to anti-semitism and that it is not just a right wing problem?

There are anti-semites on both left and right.

Igotadose

Odhinn wrote: »

You get attacked when you defend what Israel does.

They returned Sinai because they couldn't hold it in the long run. Israel knows it can't win in a war of attrition, which is what would have resulted.

Earlier: "Bad Israel! Can't keep lands you gain through war!"

Israel returns land, for their own reasons, that I doubt you're privy to. We can all have opinions, personally, I think they really wanted to be at peace with Egypt, as that dealt a big-time blow to the warmaking in the Middle East, Egypt bore the brunt of a lot of it. Yes, the US probably paid off both sides to make this happen. But it happened. All good.

So, does Israel deserve credit for returning the Sinai to Egypt? They were under no obligation to do so.


What would you have rather they did?

Why did Egypt not want Gaza back?